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Subdeacon Joe

Are the days numbered for the Ma Deuce?

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Lighter, More Lethal .50 Cal On The Way

 

Low-rate initial production of 800 revolutionary XM806 lightweight .50-caliber machine guns started in February. A pierced primer during limited user testing halted progress, said Lt. Col. Thomas Ryan, product manager of crew-served weapons for Program Executive Office Soldier. Delivery, which was expected by 2014, is now delayed 17 months.

 

While no one likes a delay, finding this fault early in the process has allowed the Army to build a more reliable and durable weapon, Ryan said. The service dropped an additional $45 million on a re-engineered bolt, adjustments to the fixed head space and new tests. Officials have put 300,000 rounds downrange and the results have been strong.

 

The XM806 cuts the weight of the 128-pound M2 by half and reduces recoil by 60 percent. It also boasts an effective range of 2,000 meters, 170 better than the M2. The machine gun, which has a manual safety, allows for quick barrel changes that do not require adjustments for head space and timing.

 

Relief also is on the way for the A-gunner tapped to carry the tripod. The XM205 weighs 13 pounds less than the 44-pound M3 now being carried. The XM205 collapses to less than 50 percent of deployed height.”

 

I know it has been tried before.

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Forty five million dollars to re-engineer the bolt and a few other "tweaks...?"

 

John Moses must be quite disturbed in his rest... :(

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And by the way, Top O' the Mornin' to ya, Joe~! ^_^

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That's the government way: If it isn't broke, break it...or replace it with something more expensive.

 

The Ma Deuce is going to be a tough act to follow no matter what they spend.

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Give the troops the best. If they have a weapon that exceeds the performance of the M-2, get into production right now. The headspacing has always been a problem along with the weight., All good things come to an end.

 

Thank goodness for the new 60mm.

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And by the way, Top O' the Mornin' to ya, Joe~! ^_^

 

And the rest of the day to you, Sir!

 

I, too, blinked at that $45 million, but we don't really know from the article what all went into that process.

 

Cutting the weight in half is a good thing. But the rate of fire is only about half that of the M-2, which may not be a good thing. But maybe this could be in addition to rather than in place of Ma Deuce.

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And the rest of the day to you, Sir!

 

I, too, blinked at that $45 million, but we don't really know from the article what all went into that process.

 

Cutting the weight in half is a good thing. But the rate of fire is only about half that of the M-2, which may not be a good thing. But maybe this could be in addition to rather than in place of Ma Deuce.

 

They could easily keep the bazillion M-2s in inventory. Still great for fixed defense. I don't know if the reduced rate of fire is necessarily a disadvantage. Those golfball sized tracer rounds will mess up a feller's morning regardless.

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Isn't 265 RPM about 4 700+ gr rounds per second? Seems like it would ruin someones day.

 

 

I can however see it (the slow rate of fire) as a drawback when the 50 is pressed into service as an anti aircraft weapon.

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Isn't 265 RPM about 4 700+ gr rounds per second? Seems like it would ruin someones day.

 

 

I can however see it (the slow rate of fire) as a drawback when the 50 is pressed into service as an anti aircraft weapon.

 

True. I suppose there's the remote possibility that troops could face enemy aircraft. Although it hasn't been used in that role since Christ was a corporal.

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True. I suppose there's the remote possibility that troops could face enemy aircraft. Although it hasn't been used in that role since Christ was a corporal.

I thought Christ was an Officer

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hmmm.....is see the potential of arianism cropping up.

 

 

At 265 RPM it does seem slow compared to the 450 to 650 of the M-2. But that beats the heck out of no .50 cal at all.

 

I'm wondering when, or if, there will be trials of a machine gun in .338 Lapua or .416 Barrett.

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I would like to know how they reduced the weight AND the recoil. If they used a muzzle brake, it must deafen the crew and all others in the area.

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I've pondered why the military has improved the light machine guns substantially since Browning's original design, but hasn't done anything with the Ma Deuce. Lighter weight and quick change barrels would be a definite plus. I don't see the slower rate of fire as being a minus. We have way better AA weapons in the inventory now.

 

Lighter weight = easier to get to where it's needed to knock down brick walls that bad guys hide behind. You don't need 500+ rpm for that.

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hmmm.....is see the potential of arianism cropping up.

 

 

At 265 RPM it does seem slow compared to the 450 to 650 of the M-2. But that beats the heck out of no .50 cal at all.

 

I'm wondering when, or if, there will be trials of a machine gun in .338 Lapua or .416 Barrett.

 

We will eschew further ecclesiastical discussions. (although personally I doubt Arius made it past PFC.)

 

I asked a few active duty friends who are involved in r&d and they hadn't heard of any caliber change possibilities.

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I'm wondering when, or if, there will be trials of a machine gun in .338 Lapua or .416 Barrett.

 

They might make a good machine gun in those calibers but those "lightweight" rounds can never have terminal balistics as good as the 50BMG.

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They might make a good machine gun in those calibers but those "lightweight" rounds can never have terminal balistics as good as the 50BMG.

 

I see the .338 as an intermediate round, bridging the gap between the .30 and the .50 cal.

 

 

The .416 is about 300 gr lighter than the .50, but also considerably faster and retains its velocity better. If I recall the chart correctly, at the muzzle there is a difference of about 4000 foot pounds of energy in favor of the 50, but at 1000 yards they are essentially equal, or tipped slightly in favor of the 416.

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I'll still put my vote with a huge, relatively fast bullet that can punch its way through light armor, masonry, wooden walls, car bodies, rubble, and mud buildings. 500 or so of these every minute have proven them selves time after time almost everywhere except under water.

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Even if the Army started fielding these today, it would take at least a decade for the Deuce to phased out. Even after that they will likely spend alot of time either in a depot somewhere or in NG armories.

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I've pondered why the military has improved the light machine guns substantially since Browning's original design, but hasn't done anything with the Ma Deuce. Lighter weight and quick change barrels would be a definite plus. I don't see the slower rate of fire as being a minus. We have way better AA weapons in the inventory now.

 

Lighter weight = easier to get to where it's needed to knock down brick walls that bad guys hide behind. You don't need 500+ rpm for that.

 

There have been a number of attempts in the last 40 years to replace/supplant the M-2 in service, but in the end they fallen by the wayside and the M-2 remains. The M-85 and the "Dover Devil" have been 2 attempts that I am aware of.

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We have replaced many service arms

 

M-14 by the M-16 ( if you were there not a totally pleasent experience)

BAR by the M-14 ( ditto )( although the M-14 could do some of the BAR's job )

Browning 30 by the M-60 ( 60 was prone to malfunctions )

1911 by the 92 ( we all know the 1911 is a dead design )

 

Better is good.

Change because as OIC you need it on your resume to get promoted is not.

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Being a retired Army Vet as many of us SASS members are , I aprove better , faster weapons.

 

But............................

 

War in and of it's self is devastating , horrors and the un-ending night terrors of the men who fought it.

 

Should we make killing our emeny frightless , painless and colorless ?

 

I fear that we are. :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

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Everything's days are numbers. ;)

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What happened to the 25mm XM307? It was supposed to replace the Ma Deuce. Project was cancelled in 2007

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BRING BACK THE MUZZLELOADERS!

I hate change.

 

 

 

I thought you were going to say POINTY STICKS :lol:

 

 

TF

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Say it aint so, Joe................

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Say it aint so, Joe................

 

 

Eventually it will be replaced by something else. I don't think this is what will replace it though. As has been suggested above, it may come into service in addition to the M-2.

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Red Jacket is contracted to do the work on the new and improved M2.

They will put three in tandem, or chrome it and paint an alligator down the side :wacko::excl:

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Red Jacket is contracted to do the work on the new and improved M2.

:unsure::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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I read about the .416 Barrett. It looks like Barrett did a lot of work to come up with an improved round. I'd bet that they could improve the .50 bullet also but there's more money in it for them to sell new barrels for the .416 than "new and improved" .50 bullets becuase they couldn't get an exclusive contract on the ammo.

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I thought the worst change was when they phased out the M-1?

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The rifle?

 

Oh no! Here we go again! :lol: :lol:

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