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Flash Pan Dan

Improper Etiquette?

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In the intervening years, I have less patience for such things and peer pressure means less to me. If it happened today, I probably would sit it out and let the transvestites have their fun..........

 

 

Ya can say anything ya want now, but you don't know if you would/wouldn't till the time comes. Depends on if it is a big match or not and if it is scored by TT or RP . :FlagAm:

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Ya can say anything ya want now, but you don't know if you would/wouldn't till the time comes. Depends on if it is a big match or not and if it is scored by TT or RP . :FlagAm:

 

 

I know.

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I don't think I would think too highly of such an act. If you want to sit one out for safety reasons. or because you have gotten too hot or some such reason, that would be OK. I just don't think that because you might enjoy one stage as much as another is any reason to not shoot.

Yep. But, Manatee and Widowmaker Hill make excellent points. Been there, had to get between two armed and very angry folks at a match oncet, over a non-shooting issue... been known to jump in the face of another pard because of his tirade about the outcome of a match once. Had to talk a Junior into shooting the shoot-off after another raised a ruckus about his inclusion. Told the Junior something along the line that doin' well and showin' his detractor that he was "above" the criticism was more tellin' than poutin' and not shootin'; standin' up and beatin' the blowhard at the final shootoff seemed to me as bein' more adult than something as simple as age. (Very satisfying when the young man did! For me AND the Junior!) It is a tactic as good as protesting, if not better.

 

The reason(s) behind the inclusion of overly complicated stages and instructions is probably more important than the fact that they are. Some find fun in ways others don't. Write more stages. 10-10-4 can get pretty boring after a while. So can TOO much creativity. It is difficult to be continually balancing complexity with repeativeness. Raising the issue AFTER the match and the guns have been put away... maybe after the awards, and other members are still present, that's another way. You might find you have many who agree with you.

 

HP, yep, the Judge has a lot of CLASS. Ask yourself, "WWtJD?" He is the epitomy of the "cowboy way" in cowboy action shooting.

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Hello,

 

From reading some of these posts, it seems that some of you are overlooking the OP's statement that the sitting out is in protest of complexity; not safety, shooter's physical condition, weather...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

It does not matter WHY a pard sits out a stage. It only matters that it is his absolute right to do so.

 

For any reason, yes even as a means of protest, or for no reason.

 

Others are free to disparage the shooter when he does. That is their right.

 

But I would certainly find the one more unseemly than the other. Just to be perfectly clear, it would be the disparaging that would be more unseemly.

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Have ya ever been to a match where it's just a great displeasure to shoot with someone? They question every call, they ask for restarts and reshoots. They intimidate scorekeepers, RO's and spotters.

 

Ever been on a posse like that?

 

Well, bein' as I'm not on the shy side, I generally will stand up to the bully....mebbe not as politely as some...but I don't put up with much.

 

At the same shoot, one of the older guys had had enough, packed his kit and went back to the clubhouse without a word.

 

Now...who's in the right or wrong here? Not the old guy, for sure. The a*hole? Yah....we weed em out...but we still have to pull weeds cuz new ones pop up from time to time.

 

Me? Well, I could be more polite...so nowadays I tend to just keep score and leave the RO'ing and spotting to others. I do occasionally remind the RO of a rule or two if I see something; but, that's about it.

 

Generally, if a shooter doesn't want to shoot a stage...and he's not one of those weeds I mentioned...then it ain't the shooter who's the problem.

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I still think you should only shoot when it is fun.

 

But, here is a second option that was done at a club where the stage times were in the 300 minute range.

 

Sitdown after the walkthrough and make up queue cards. As you shoot the stage, have a buddy hold them up for you as you shoot the stage.

 

You get to shoot and someone may even get the hint.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

dang :FlagAm:

 

300 minute stages...5 hours per stage...6 stage match would take 30 hours. i would have to pack an extra banana.

 

:FlagAm:

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Sitting out in protest "because it is complicated" is the act of a petulant child. Everyone has to shoot the stage. Making you think a little is a good thing. If you do not like the way stages are written at your club then you should volunteer to write some of the stages and see how people like your stages. Question then would be are they fun? Did people enjoy them? Or were they boring? You write them and try to help out the club.

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Dang, I go so wrapped up in the minutiae, I plumb forgot to take a second look and wasted hour time for the day.

 

300 seconds or 5 minutes, sorry,

 

BJT

 

 

<!--quoteo(post=2096676:date=Jan 20 2011, 12:08 PM:name=BJT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BJT @ Jan 20 2011, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2096676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think you should only shoot when it is fun.

 

But, here is a second option that was done at a club where the stage times were in the 300 minute range.

 

Sitdown after the walkthrough and make up queue cards. As you shoot the stage, have a buddy hold them up for you as you shoot the stage.

 

You get to shoot and someone may even get the hint.

 

Cheers,

BJT<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

dang <img src="http://sassnet.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":FlagAm:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

 

300 minute stages...5 hours per stage...6 stage match would take 30 hours. i would have to pack an extra banana.

 

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":FlagAm:" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

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Question for the OP: You said you were sitting out in protest. The only way for a protest to work is for the decision makers to know about it. Did you tell them you were sitting the stage out in protest? If not, it didn't do much good. If you did, that still sounds like a temper-tantrum. I absolutely positively believe you paid your money and have every right to shoot whatever stages you want and sit out the rest. I just think that form of protest would reflect badly on you rather than bring a positive change to the situation. Afterall, it's a positive change you're looking for, right?

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Sitting out in protest "because it is complicated" is the act of a petulant child. Everyone has to shoot the stage. Making you think a little is a good thing. If you do not like the way stages are written at your club then you should volunteer to write some of the stages and see how people like your stages. Question then would be are they fun? Did people enjoy them? Or were they boring? You write them and try to help out the club.

Well I am not too good with a computer, but I looked over the rules, did a search and no where did I find where it says "Everyone has to shoot the stage". Did I miss it somewhere? Several times I have quit shooting monthly matches when I got too hot, too cold, too wet, too tired, especially on those days when we shot 8 stages. I guess that is just my way of saying at my age shooting 8 stages a day unless the weather is perfect is just not fun. I have also quit early when shooting in a disfunctinal posse, it was no longer fun. I do not make a big deal of it, just leave when the stage is complete, pack up and go home. I have also had stages I thought were not safe and did not shoot them in the methods prescribed by the stage instructions-after bringing up the issue in the read throughs. No protest, just did not want to do something IMHO unsafe. I have never not shot a stage I thought was overly complex, but the match director did get a private message after the match about how to improve his stages. Hasn't happened often, usually a new stage writer was involved. For me a monthly match is practice for larger matches and it is only a game, and if you are not having fun or are too tired to shoot safely, just do something else the rest of the day.

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Helloooooo!

 

Again, the OP was asking for our opinions about sitting out a stage due to complexity. Of course he can; but, that was not the question. :unsure: The question was what would we think about it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Hello back. OK I would think the pard was standing on his principles and I would support him or her in that effort.

 

I certainly would not think any the less of the protestor for it. This country was founded on protest.

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I would not think bad of the shooter who sat out a stage in protest of the scenario's complexity. I, personally, have never sat out any stage. Nor can I imagine myself ever doing so, but I can tell you I'll be damned if I'll let ANYBODY tell me I HAVE to shoot every stage.

 

Possum (Saran Wrap is a poor substitute for tin foil)

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Helloooooo!

 

Again, the OP was asking for our opinions about sitting out a stage due to complexity. Of course he can; but, that was not the question. :unsure: The question was what would we think about it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Just to add.

 

The OP came to a satisfactory solution way back up on post #45.

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Considerin' my superior brain power and physical abilities, all stages are too hard for me... :blush: I'd just have to hang up my guns. :(

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Well I am not too good with a computer, but I looked over the rules, did a search and no where did I find where it says "Everyone has to shoot the stage". Did I miss it somewhere? Several times I have quit shooting monthly matches when I got too hot, too cold, too wet, too tired, especially on those days when we shot 8 stages. I guess that is just my way of saying at my age shooting 8 stages a day unless the weather is perfect is just not fun. I have also quit early when shooting in a disfunctinal posse, it was no longer fun. I do not make a big deal of it, just leave when the stage is complete, pack up and go home. I have also had stages I thought were not safe and did not shoot them in the methods prescribed by the stage instructions-after bringing up the issue in the read throughs. No protest, just did not want to do something IMHO unsafe. I have never not shot a stage I thought was overly complex, but the match director did get a private message after the match about how to improve his stages. Hasn't happened often, usually a new stage writer was involved. For me a monthly match is practice for larger matches and it is only a game, and if you are not having fun or are too tired to shoot safely, just do something else the rest of the day.

 

By "everyone has to shoot the stage" I was referring to equality in competition. I did not intend to imply that it was mandatory. Anyone can stop for any reason such as not safe, to tired, don't feel well, to cold, to wet etc. However not shooting because someone thinks it is to hard?? As it has been said before you can only get 1 P. Even my 8 year old grandson makes every attempt no matter how complex the stage. It teaches one to think carefully and not run on automatic pilot. I think it helps prevent Alzheimer by making us work our brains. At my age I need it. Everyone can, (but not must)at least make an attempt

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Improper etiquette it is. I just would not consider not shooting a stage. It would be like telling the cook at thanksgiving I hated the turkey.

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If a shooter wants to not shoot a stage, that's their business. The OP said they would still do their posse duties, so again...it's their business if the don't want to shoot a stage. I wouldn't care one way or the other if someone sat out a stage as long as they weren't an a$$hole about it.

 

Manatee and I have had disagreements before on issues, but we're seeing eye to eye on this one. Leave the OP to protest if he wants. Who is he hurting?

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I don't care if someone wants to sit out a stage. I like a challenge personally, the 10-10-4's are tiring and we all know indians or bad guys didn't line up that way. They didn't care if you had disabilities or were this or that, you either shot them or they shot you..... this is a game but some realism makes it more fun.

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Helloooooo!

 

Again, the OP was asking for our opinions about sitting out a stage due to complexity. Of course he can; but, that was not the question. :unsure: The question was what would we think about it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

I know ,look likes most every one is looking for a rope to hang this feller ,they ALL need to go back and reread

his post

CHOCTAW Silver WOLF

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Leave the OP to protest if he wants. Who is he hurting?

 

I don't diasagree with what you're saying but I would also ask, who is he HELPING? He's doing this to protest stages that are too complicated, how is this form of protest going to change that? Again, he can certainly sit out if he wants to, but I seriously doubt he'll end up with the result he's looking for. And I'm pretty sure that's what he was aking in the OP.

 

 

(But I've been wrong before.)

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I know ,look likes most every one is looking for a rope to hang this feller ,they ALL need to go back and reread

his post

CHOCTAW Silver WOLF

Hee hee!

 

When did something like that stop us from posting. :rolleyes:;)

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Are you Cherokee Scout or Choctaw Silver Wolf? :unsure:

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I remember one match at a club where I shoot fairly often where the stages were written by a pard who got "creative". There were numerous P's committed that day, including those committed by Yours Truly. Complaints were heard all day, some in good nature and some that weren't.

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There are whiners out there but when a feller shows up, pays his money, works the posse and would rather not shoot a stage, that would get my attention more than someone who says the stage is too complex but he shoots it anyway. After all, if he shoots it, he either gets a P or not. If he gets a P, he is just blaming the stage for his mistakes. If he does not get a P, how complicated could it be?

 

Sitting it out makes a much stonger statement.

 

I still like the cue card idea.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

 

I don't diasagree with what you're saying but I would also ask, who is he HELPING? He's doing this to protest stages that are too complicated, how is this form of protest going to change that? Again, he can certainly sit out if he wants to, but I seriously doubt he'll end up with the result he's looking for. And I'm pretty sure that's what he was aking in the OP.

 

 

(But I've been wrong before.)

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

For me, I hate stages that are too complicated. Most of the time they seem like more of a "P" trap than fun. Since I'm only shooting for the fun of it, I have to say that I've been tempted to just sit out a stage that was I looked at as just being a PITA and no fun to shoot. I haven't, but I've thought about it.

 

Why haven't I? It's because I like shooting. The mistake that I make on stages that are too complicated is that I just don't take my time and shoot. Instead I usually rush through it only to find out that I screwed up somewhere along the way.

 

Some stages are realy just a bunch of bullspit, and it seems that they were only writen with a "let's see how many P's we get out of this stage" mentality.

 

I agree with BJT that someone sitting out a stage is a big red flag. I also agree with Anvil Al in that if you don't like the way a club does business, and since you are the customer, show your displeasure with your feet and don't go back to that club.

 

For me, I don't know if it's "proper etiquette" or not but I do know that most of the folks who I shoot with are my friends. And because of that fact, I think I'd talk with whoever wrote the stage and ask if they could make it less of a hassle next time because it was no fun to shoot.

 

Now after saying that, I remember a time when I heard someone after a stage complain about how bad it was ... and the fella who wrote that stage said something to the effect "if you can do better than you write the stages". And if memory serves me right, after that the guy who complained left the range because he was angry.

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... Otherwise, you will look like the "Lone Whiner."

 

 

 

Or the Lone Haranguer.

 

"The MD is a Fink".

 

All ya need is a mask an a cape. :ph34r:

 

Olen

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Let me give you an example. I was at a shoot. A stage required wearing womens clothes. I am not a transvestite, I am happy for those who enjoy such things but I have no interest in participating in such activities. I seriously considered sitting out the stage.

=======================================

It could have been worse; what if someone had made a video of you shooting in drag and put it on YouTube?

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Yes, I could be charged with practicing medicine without a liscence for performing a colonoscopy with a video camera.

 

Good point!

 

 

=======================================

It could have been worse; what if someone had made a video of you shooting in drag and put it on YouTube?

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you can only get one P.

 

 

 

 

It's called freestyle.

 

Something we learned from FireBall.

 

 

Seriously though when I first got started I used to go to a club where every gun had its own sequence,it was not as enjoyable as other shoots but it made every place else seem easy as far as scenarios went.

 

I write quite a few matches and one time I was told a shooter was going to protest stage but posse leader talked him into shooting it anyway & he helped him thru it.I dont think anybody else had a problem with it ,this guy is gettin older,not shooting much & just did get it,it really was not difficult as nobody else complained.

 

 

AO

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Helloooooo!

 

Again, the OP was asking for our opinions about sitting out a stage due to complexity. Of course he can; but, that was not the question. :unsure: The question was what would we think about it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Mileage will always vary

BUT

may

I

say 2

Allie MO

THANKS FOR REMINDING FOLKS OF THE REAL QUESTION

geeeese folks

 

sit out anything

ya want to, just expect what may come with it

 

for every action

there may be an equal or opposite reaction

 

Allie Mo is right to keep bringing up the orginial question

yes they can, but is it the cowboy way

now I did it again, this may not be cowboy action shootin no more

perhaps just shootin and rights..........eeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

that is what I am see-in in a lot of post

no more cowboy code???????????????

sure hope I am a tadd bit wrong

safety and poppoing a cork IS NOT WHAT I AM TALKING BOUT

Widdow Maker is correct iffen a feller is that far :o gone :o

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Soooo,

 

you and your buddy have been out riding the range all day together and ya come upon this beautiful pond or lake.

(or, you could be out in your boat on a nice lake).

 

Anyhow, you decide to break out the fishing pole and relax. Your friend even volunteers to bait the hook for you but he decides that he is going to relax and not fish.

 

In return, you pick up the oar and bash him over the head.

 

Yep, sounds like the Cowboy way to me.....NOT!

 

 

..........Widder

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Iff'n you don't like the stages, vote with your feet. I went thru this a several months ago, haven't been back to shoot there since.

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I would only sit out a stage if I thought it was unsafe.

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O K, voting with your feet would probably not be noticed, but might relieve your stress. All of the clubs I shoot at occasionally come up with a complicated stage. Most ROs I've seen will guide you through it by calling out target order. Somebody else might remember, but it seems like an RO post came up a while ago where an RO said he didn't allow posse members to call out target instructions. I thought at the time, I wouldn't want to shoot with him. If you combine him with some P-traps, I think I'd pass on shooting with him as an RO, but I can't imagine "protesting" stages. A little humor and sarcasm should fix the problem. Remember, some stage writers get very defensive about ther stages and don't see a problem with them.

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Iwill beg your pardon if i'm out of line.if'n you are shootin on the same posse that i am on, can i shoot again in your stead. please! Rusty

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