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Flash Pan Dan

Improper Etiquette?

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YEs, poor manners.

 

If you don't like the squash they served while a guest, you push it around some and then compliment the hostess who tried to cook you a nice meal. Next time you're invited, you have a conflicting previous engagement. :)

 

CR

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As a stage writer/match director, you always run the risk of not pleasing everyone. We often see posts on here complaining about the same old 10-10-4 stages too.

 

My personal opinion is that this is an action game. I like things fairly simple, fairly close and fairly fast. Shooters like dings. Dings are fun! P's are not fun. I always try to interact with the shooters and solicit opinions about the stages. I learn a lot by listening to their pros and cons. Sometimes I'll sit at my computer writing a stage and get done and think, "Man! That's awesome!" Only to find out that awesome on the computer ain't awesome on the range. Outside help and opinions are a valuable tool to a stage writer.

 

Talk to other shooters and see if your concerns are shared by others. If so, approach as a group, in a cowboy way of course, and voice your concerns. If your stage writer won't listen or consider options to the "puzzle" stages...vote with your feet. I find that most folks who volunteer to help are truly doing their best rather than confuse people. Constructive criticism, given in the right manner could help.

 

Just my $4 worth.

 

Four Bucks

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Ohhhh, he is a guest. I misunderstood. I thought he paid to shoot.

 

BJT

 

 

YEs, poor manners.

 

If you don't like the squash they served while a guest, you push it around some and then compliment the hostess who tried to cook you a nice meal. Next time you're invited, you have a conflicting previous engagement. :)

 

CR

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Wait...Wait could you have the bank robbers line up in order so I can shoot them easy. They're running all over the place in different directions. How can I keep track of the bank robbers if they don't line up? Rifle time now 1 2 3 4 5 then backwards....oh it's all so confusing to me.....shotgun time....2 and 2 ......why can't it be 1 2 3 4 ......I'm so confused.....maybe I'll just sit this one out..NOT

 

Big (what's got his tongue firmly planted in his cheek)Jake

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We get to shoot with Blue Boy, widely considered to be the oldest continuously active shooter in S.A.S.S. :) He's ninty-two and a half. :huh::D

 

Never seen him sit out a stage, even when he fell and split his hide in several places last summer. Always has a smile on his face and he comes to shoot. :lol:

 

I suspect you'd get a gentle earful from him if you sat out a stage you 'cause you didn't like it! :D

 

If Blue Boy 'll shoot the match I guess I'll do it too! :mellow:

 

You put up the targets and I'll shoot 'em! He!!, I'll even help you put 'em up! If I can see 'em I'll shoot 'em. If I don't like this stage the next one 'll probanly make up for it!

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I've yet to see a "complicated" SASS stage...granted I've screwed up my fair share by going faster than I could think it through........

 

......try shooting USPSA......now I've shot some REALLY complicated stuff in that sport......

 

I'd look down on it.....kind of like a golfer throwing their club when something doesn't go their way.......

 

not they way I was raised...

 

CW

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Ohhhh, he is a guest. I misunderstood. I thought he paid to shoot.

 

BJT

 

Point taken. You could feign allergy to squash. Next time you won't be served squash? Polite is never out of style.

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If a pard chooses to sit out a stage for WHATEVER reason no one should look down on him/her, speak derisively to them or think any less of them. If a pard pays his/her entry fee they are then free to shoot all the stages, half the stages, or just one stage whatever they want to do. Especially if they are also still working while NOT shooting. Unbelievable to me how many supposedly cowboys are saying the pard HAS to shoot the stage no matter what. If I don't want to shoot a stage by gum and by gosh nobody is gonna make me feel bad about it and I am just as cowboy as anyone.

 

Sometimes when I get over heated I DNF. I know the signs and symptoms and when I am done for the day. Same difference. Heat exhaustion, protesting the stage, maybe I'd rather smoke a cig this go round than shoot. My business and no one else's. I paid the entry fee, don't mean I am required to shoot all the stages.

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If a host club continueously has stages that are hard to follow and they won't change, then it's time to find another club. When attendance drops, the management tends to notice.........most of the time. As far as "sitting out in protest", I find that rather childish and immature. Folks aren't likely to change things when faced with direct or indirect defiance over a "hard" stage. It's just going to make you look bad. Try talking with the match director in private about your concerns.

 

Just my "red cent"

 

CS

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Pards,

 

 

Thank you for your input. You have given me a lot to think about. I enjoy CAS and especially all the folks I shoot with and I owe it to them not to be a hindrance or in anyway spoil their fun. In the past I have politely mentioned to the MD my dislike of the stages that require a lot of different sweeps and prop manipulation and I guess I must have been the only one because not much has changed. So before I get a reputation as whiny tenderfoot I best move on to another club and see if I can find something to my liking without stepping on anyone's toes.

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I have not done this but I would like to get some opinions on a type of protest I am thinking of initiating. In a previous thread the subject of complicated stages was brought up. In my opinion CAS is a shooting activity and not a puzzle. I have in the past mentioned to ROs that it would be nice to design simpler stages. When I show up to help set up and get a chance to design a stage I do so very simply. Folks seem to enjoy them.

 

 

Alas, I still see to many puzzles. What would you think of a posse' member who elected to sit out a stage and take the penalty time. I would still take care of all my posse' duties; scoring, manning the loading/unloading tables, etc. I just wouldn't shoot that stage.

 

 

If I found that I was sitting out too many stages I guess I'd have to find myself another club at which to shoot. May I have your opinions please?

 

 

You are welcome to your opinion but sitting out in protest would put a dark cloud over you and your reputation and quite frankly, I wouldn't care to shoot with a person with an attitude such ast that.

 

Instead of sitting it out, you could either :

1) graciously attempt to shoot the stage as written.

2) make up your own 'fun' shooting order (in your head) for that stage and shoot it any way you safely want to and earn the 'P'. But smile as you are awarded the penalty and claim a brain fade.. OR

3) Finish the match and vote with your feet, don't come back.

 

If the clubs scenerios are by and large to complicated for you, after evaluating it for several matches, then that club isn't for you and best to look elsewhere. If others feel the same way, they will join you.

 

There are clubs that I don't shoot at. I just did #3.

 

 

 

Blastmaster

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If I didn't like a stage, it's my option not to shoot it. I wouldn't complain loudly at the match (though I've expressed my displeasure with some scenarios on the Wire before :rolleyes: ).

 

It kinda depends on what the stage writers are trying to accomplish. If they're making it complicated because they want to slow down the fast guys....or take pleasure in making folks miss...then I think I might sit out a stage. If it was a recurring nightmare at this club, I'd stop attending the matches.

 

You paid your money and no one should force you to shoot a stage if you are in any way not focused on it. We shoot loaded guns.

 

Lemme repeat: we shoot loaded guns.

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We shoot five stages in a match and try to have them vary from "stand n' blast" to more challenging with our Polish Plate Rack and Texas Star. But we don't try to make them complicated or confusing. We don't want "P" traps.

 

We even had a special match on the fifth Saturday of July last year which was ALL very challenging stages with the Polish Plate Rack, three Texas Stars, a lot of KD targets, pop up clay birds, rolling targets, swinging targets etc.

 

Sage Creek Gus

Please do tell. What is a Polish plate rack and why is it called that?

 

Fillmore

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I would add, probably all of us have seen a stage or six where they run through it and ya think or even say "Oh heck, just give me my "P" right now", but we're always game to give it a go anyway, even if we have a serious word or a derisive catcall for the writer. Smile, hoot and holler, and give er hell. That's what ya came for, ain't it?

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Please do tell. What is a Polish plate rack and why is it called that?

 

Fillmore

 

 

 

Fillmore =

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It's your $$ and your fun to have or not have. If you just sit it out and not complain making others feel bad, then I say sit it out. Who are we or anyone to pass judgment on you for sitting out one stage or four? I know that the older I get the harder it is to remember the complicated stages and maybe I just do not want to admit that I cannot remember the exact instructions. Nor do I want the attention in front of my "Cowboy pards". Nor is it anyone’s dang business if I sit it out. Maybe those that object need to find a new club or take a lesson in being caring and understanding'

Some times, I just do not feel like playing a complete 18 holes of golf. Therefore, I sit one or two out along the way. It is my score and my day to have safe fun.

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I was afraid it had pictures of Walesa, Chopin, Pope John Paul II, Copernicus and Paderewski on it.

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Presumably, you are in it for the fun and not the money. If you would not have fun shooting the stage, I see no reason to shoot it.

 

Like any shooter, be polite and honest. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

+1

i didnt see in the OP any talk of protest or point making and included working the stage as well.

it should be FUN if its not fun you should feel free to pass and not compelled to participate.

last week i shot with a shooter whose rifle fouled after 5 or 6 stages (black powder) and quit shooting because it wasnt FUN missing so much.

stayed and worked the rest of the day. would ya all frown there too?

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this is

:rolleyes:

 

we are free to do what we want (thats legal)

 

personally, I would try to do my best on the stage

and make suggestions later, in private, to thems that write stages fer that club

 

<_<:blink::ph34r:;)

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I was afraid it had pictures of Walesa, Chopin, Pope John Paul II, Copernicus and Paderewski on it.

Bobby Vinton and Charles Bronson too.

 

FC

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BJT's post and Long Dog's post #43 pretty much says what I was thinking.

 

The OP stated his intentions of working in the posse duties, etc....and really doesn't owe anyone an explanation as to why he would prefer to not shoot a particular stage.

 

Ya know, for years I've read post on this Wire of nearly all the Wire Pards who have made comments that they won't attend certain style matches because of the style of scenerios set up in the match.

 

What's different than the situation listed by the OP?

 

I attended a big match a few years back and when I arrived, I found out certain things about the match set up and the selfish reasons involved that I would have honestly left the match ifn I had driven. But, as fate would have it, I had hitched a ride with a good Pard and he was wanting to stay. I shot the match and I admit, I was MISERABLE during the whole blame thing. I have no intentions of every going back to this place.

 

Shooter pays his money for a good time. Ifn he has a better time not shooting, then let it be so.

 

 

..........Widder

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I've never even considered such a thing as sitting out a stage. But if'n I was to consider and carry out such a protest, I think I'd have some fun doin' it by pickin' out a single target and blowin' it away. <_<:rolleyes::blink:

 

Roy

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As far as I'm concerned you do as you wish. As long as yer safe, I got no dog in the fight. I probably wouldn't agree that the stage was too difficult. You wouldn't be taking away from my fun. Actually, I'd have to wait less time to shoot, so take a break. Scored as a DNF, no problemo. I wouldn't think you were a jackass or demonstrating poor manners. I'd just think you were doing as you please.

 

Now, for those of you that would complain at the top of your voice, that does interfere with my fun and that would be bad manners. You got a complaint, take it up with the Match Director, Posse Marshal, stage writer, score keeper, hotdog cooker whomever it is but there ain't no need for me a hearin' it, unless your problem is with me, then bring it to me in private. I'm sure we can sort it out.

 

Frankly, the person that I'm gitten real worn out with is the person always complainin' 'bout something. Discussions of rules, stages, matches, firearms, accessories good and bad is fine. But, some folks complain to the air when you shoot with them, complain to the fire sitting around at night, and complain on the wire constantly. It appears these folks just like to complain to prove they're smart, eloquent, or just like to hear the squawkin' sound they make.

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As far as I'm concerned you do as you wish. As long as yer safe, I got no dog in the fight. I probably wouldn't agree that the stage was too difficult. You wouldn't be taking away from my fun. Actually, I'd have to wait less time to shoot, so take a break. Scored as a DNF, no problemo. I wouldn't think you were a jackass or demonstrating poor manners. I'd just think you were doing as you please.

 

Now, for those of you that would complain at the top of your voice, that does interfere with my fun and that would be bad manners. You got a complaint, take it up with the Match Director, Posse Marshal, stage writer, score keeper, hotdog cooker whomever it is but there ain't no need for me a hearin' it, unless your problem is with me, then bring it to me in private. I'm sure we can sort it out.

 

Frankly, the person that I'm gitten real worn out with is the person always complainin' 'bout something. Discussions of rules, stages, matches, firearms, accessories good and bad is fine. But, some folks complain to the air when you shoot with them, complain to the fire sitting around at night, and complain on the wire constantly. It appears these folks just like to complain to prove they're smart, eloquent, or just like to hear the squawkin' sound they make.

 

 

HEAR, HEAR!

 

 

RRR

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OF course folks can sit out what ever they like. Its a cowboy match not the Bataan Death March. Its how you do it that matters. No one cares that you pass on a stage, its your right, what will get you a bad name is if you say, or even intimate "I am sitting this out because I don't like the way this stage is written." I think the folks responding negatively to your proposal, such as myself, are responding to this part of your hypothetical situation.

 

In the past, I and my pals, have shot stages the way we liked, knowing full well that it would get us penalized for the match, but we were having fun and competing with each other and didn't care all that much about our overall standing. However, this was not some sort of comment on the stage writing.

 

Match directors have to walk a fine line with stage design. Some folks don't like when stages are complicated, other folks don't like it when stages are too simple. A well designed match will give all sides things they don't like and do. That way there is something for everybody. Also, the best clubs make each match different and interesting. Shooting the same stages, over and over and over again gets really boring.

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AAAARRGGGG!!!!! I agree with Lone Dog! (Where's the pukin' emoticon?!)

 

Oh. I agree with some others too.

 

How's he ruining anybody else's fun by sitting out a stage or two while helping out his posse? I thought this was all voluntary. I thought we did this to have fun. I thought we could shoot some, all or none or none or none. Are we really taking this all that seriously?

 

I hear you Momma..........

 

tin foil........got to..find......tin...... foil

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Pard,

 

I would not do that. I think it would make one look bad to not even attempt the stage. Hey, if you don't care what anyone thinks about you, go for it.

 

If many folks are complaining regularly, I think it would be more effective to get together with them and try to convince the MD to modify the stages. Otherwise, you will look like the "Lone Whiner."

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Is this TRP?

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Hmmmmm........WWJAD (What Would JackAspen Do)

 

Yell..."Free Style" and wait till the smoke clears.

 

Just call me a Procedural J.A.

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Improper Etiquette?, Sitting out a Complicated Stage as a protest

 

 

 

Yes. In my humble opinion it would be improper etiquette

 

Ain't the cowboy way...

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Fillmore =

 

 

HOLY COW!!!!!!! ;)

:rolleyes:<_< What he said will work since this is a family forum. :blink::ph34r:

 

But for some unknown reason, I want to give it a try.

 

I can pretty much guarantee a train wreck of epic proportions but I DO wanna give it a whirl.

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I was afraid it had pictures of Walesa, Chopin, Pope John Paul II, Copernicus and Paderewski on it.

 

 

Copernicus? I thought he was Irish :)

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By all means sit it out ,,,,,,,,,,Heck if it's a Rank-Point match you can still beat someone faster than you !!!!!

 

That way you don't have to worry about your protest affecting your placement .....

 

NOT !!!! That ain't the Cowboy Way buck-up and shoot it and take the "P" like a man ....

 

But it does point out one beniffit of the RANK system ,,,,,, be a weasel and still beat your pards on RANK POINTS ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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How is not shooting a stage (for whatever reason) but still working it being a weasel?

 

I'll shoot or not shoot any and all stages as I please, thank ye kindly.

 

Oh and Possum-- nauseous?

 

Dang, if I had any feelings, I would be chastened, chagrined, and possibly even contrite...

 

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have none. They would be an impediment to me in my business. :):ph34r:;)

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Lone Dog ;

 

Are you a Lawyer ?????

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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