Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Flash Pan Dan

Improper Etiquette?

Recommended Posts

If you don't want to shoot the stage, don't. BUT if your point is to say that the stage is more complcated than you like then shoot the stage and earn that P that goes with a complicated stage.

Match Directors theoretically study/review the results vs stage design to find what works and what doesn't work for their club.

Stages with many Ps may not reappear. Stages with lots of misses or no misses may not reappear.

 

It is up to the shooter how to handle this situation.

 

The one thing that I really dislike is a shooter doing nothing for an entire stage.

If you are there you need to be working to support the posse. Spot, brass, stage guns etc.

But help out.

It is bad etiquette to not work/help with posse duties.

 

If your tired/injured take a break but use that as your excuse/explanation for not shooting the stage rather than not liking it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By all means sit it out ,,,,,,,,,,Heck if it's a Rank-Point match you can still beat someone faster than you !!!!!

 

That way you don't have to worry about your protest affecting your placement .....

 

NOT !!!! That ain't the Cowboy Way buck-up and shoot it and take the "P" like a man ....

 

But it does point out one beniffit of the RANK system ,,,,,, be a weasel and still beat your pards on RANK POINTS ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

Weasel ? ah, come on. you can do better than that.

 

After all, here is a Pard who prefers not to shoot a stage although he still gets involved in posse duties.

It shouldn't matter his reasoning nor should he have to explain it to anyone.

 

But nonetheless, he decides not to shoot a stage. For sure, this unforgiveable act of treason and unpatriotic action should atleast warrant a public flogging and hanging. Don't stop there.....go after his house and all of his possessions.

 

I mean, afterall, he's ruint YOUR day.

 

 

..........Widder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is not shooting a stage (for whatever reason) but still working it being a weasel?

 

I'll shoot or not shoot any and all stages as I please, thank ye kindly.

 

Oh and Possum-- nauseous?

 

Dang, if I had any feelings, I would be chastened, chagrined, and possibly even contrite...

 

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have none. They would be an impediment to me in my business. :):ph34r:;)

 

I was gigging you buddy. Really.

 

Possum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A LAWYER??? ARGGGH. Jabez, now you woulda went and hurt me feelings. If'n I had any.

 

Nope, just a pore country bumpkin depitty, see. Bold # 776 at yer service.

 

Dang, callin' a law dawg a lawyer is worse'n bein' called a weasel!!! :ph34r::);)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think you should only shoot when it is fun.

 

But, here is a second option that was done at a club where the stage times were in the 300 minute range.

 

Sitdown after the walkthrough and make up queue cards. As you shoot the stage, have a buddy hold them up for you as you shoot the stage.

 

You get to shoot and someone may even get the hint.

 

Cheers,

BJT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy,

 

As a European shooter, shooting most of my matches in Germany, I'm used to stages with P traps in them

and most of the time I seem to enjoy them more then the "stand and blast " stages.

 

I like a stage where you need to think about your shooting, the superfast stages seem to be

as much about your guns and how much you can spend to have them tuned as they are about skill.

 

Only reason I could see to sit a stage out would be safety, but even then not without talking to the MD or RM.

 

greatings,

Dutch Bear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please remember that the situation described is because I don't like this stage, its too complex... it is not because of health, safety, or equipment issues. This is a game, meant to be enjoyed, its called having fun with pards.

 

And the rules say:

 

FAILURE TO ENGAGE/SPIRIT OF THE GAME

30-Second Penalty

• Willfully shooting a stage other than the way it was intended in order to gain a

competitive advantage.

• Shooting ammunition that does not meet the power factor, minimum velocity. The

penalty is applied for each stage a competitor is checked and their ammunition is found

not to meet the power factor or minimum velocity.

• Willfully refusing to rope a steer, throw a stick of dynamite or otherwise make an attempt

to complete any other non-shooting procedure written within the stage instructions.

• Note: Two Spirit of the Game or Failure to Engage penalties will result in a Match

Disqualification.

 

Setting out on a stage because it is too hard, too complex, or I don't like it is a spirit of the game penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

 

We shoot loaded guns.

 

Lemme repeat: we shoot loaded guns.

 

 

Charlie Prince: 'They had a lot of weapons, mister... and they were shootin bullets.'

 

 

 

 

-Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look The Pard in question WAS NOT GOING TO SHOOT THE STAGE >>>> BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE IT !!!

 

IF YOU ARE GOING TO PROTEST A STAGE BE PREPARED TO TAKE THE FLACK...

 

And yes I DON"T think it's fair that someone can sit-out a stage IN PROTEST and still beat anyone that shoots all the stages taking the good with the bad ....

 

Sitting-out for reasons other than to protest ,but still helping out are just fine with me .....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uhhhmmmmm, no.

 

It is a DNF or DNS.

 

If a stage is not shot, a DNS or DNF is the ONLY penalty available.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

This is a game, meant to be enjoyed, its called having fun with pards.

 

And the rules say:

 

FAILURE TO ENGAGE/SPIRIT OF THE GAME

30-Second Penalty

• Willfully shooting a stage other than the way it was intended in order to gain a

competitive advantage.

• Shooting ammunition that does not meet the power factor, minimum velocity. The

penalty is applied for each stage a competitor is checked and their ammunition is found

not to meet the power factor or minimum velocity.

• Willfully refusing to rope a steer, throw a stick of dynamite or otherwise make an attempt

to complete any other non-shooting procedure written within the stage instructions.

• Note: Two Spirit of the Game or Failure to Engage penalties will result in a Match

Disqualification.

 

Setting out on a stage because it is too hard, too complex, or I don't like it is a failure to engage/spirit of the game penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me expand.

 

If a stage description required an act that a shooter found, for whatever reason, untenable, the shooter's ONLY option to avoid committing the act and avoid a SOG would be to sit out the stage.

 

Uhhhmmmmm, no.

 

It is a DNF or DNS.

 

If a stage is not shot, a DNS or DNF is the ONLY penalty available.

 

Cheers,

BJT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A LAWYER??? ARGGGH. Jabez, now you woulda went and hurt me feelings. If'n I had any.

 

Nope, just a pore country bumpkin depitty, see. Bold # 776 at yer service.

 

Dang, callin' a law dawg a lawyer is worse'n bein' called a weasel!!! :ph34r::);)

Unfortunately it has been my humbling experience to discover that neither strain of weasel is necessarily a feller's friend. However, in this polite society the services of both are a necessary evil.

 

On to the OP to wit: the problem is not that the shooter elects to sit out a stage. In the OP the SIT OUT was specifically declared to be a "protest". Now, if you, LD, wish to retire to the men's room, have a smoke, take a walk, rest your dawgs or your mind, need a break for any reason; then it's no skin at'all off my day. I honestly don't care a wit if you continue to do chores or not... if you need a break- more power to you- take it. And I truly hope you feel like playing later.

 

But, when you come around my playground, the place (one of the dang few) where I escape my mind; enjoy my friends; share my good will; make a fool of myself in good spirits and fellowship with like minded competitors with some agenda and a tantrum- induced-skit designed to highlight your displeasure for all to seethe. Then you have individually and collectively acted rudely IMNSHO.

 

And whether you wear a badge or a wig I'm liable to have a direct word with you about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

 

If I said, "you know boys, I come out here and do this for fun. This here stage ain't ringing my bell. I think I would prefer to pick brass for the entire posse this stage and hope for fun on the next one", you would think that untoward?

 

I just can not see that.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

Unfortunately it has been my humbling experience to discover that neither strain of weasel is necessarily a feller's friend. However, in this polite society the services of both are a necessary evil.

 

On to the OP to wit: the problem is not that the shooter elects to sit out a stage. In the OP the SIT OUT was specifically declared to be a "protest". Now, if you, LD, wish to retire to the men's room, have a smoke, take a walk, rest your dawgs or your mind, need a break for any reason; then it's no skin at'all off my day. I honestly don't care a wit if you continue to do chores or not... if you need a break- more power to you- take it. And I truly hope you feel like playing later.

 

But, when you come around my playground, the place (one of the dang few) where I escape my mind; enjoy my friends; share my good will; make a fool of myself in good spirits and fellowship with like minded competitors with some agenda and a tantrum- induced-skit designed to highlight your displeasure for all to seethe. Then you have individually and collectively acted rudely IMNSHO.

 

And whether you wear a badge or a wig I'm liable to have a direct word with you about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many shooters are old/older/reallydangold. If it's a hot day, or if it requires a lot of running, or if the targets are so small/far that the shooter can't see to properly aim, then who is going to tell them that they lack proper decorum by not shooting a stage?

 

Are you guys really thinking this through?

 

Is it OK for a shooter to put his guns away if it's raining and he doesn't want to get them wet....but he still helps the posse?

 

It seems to me that most of us ought to just concentrate on our own game and not worry about whether our neighbor is doing it the way we think it's proper. Frankly, I doubt the old codger gives two hoots what you think anyway....that's how he got to be old.

 

I have never NOT shot a stage because of complexity. I have NOT shot a stage because of back problems, heat issues, etc.

 

However, I've avoided some local clubs because they aren't worth a 4 hour round trip drive for shoots that take 7 hours to shoot 6 stages or that I've considered not interesting enough to travel to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lone Dog ;

 

Sorry my bad ,,,,,,, What threw me off was that Ya done said Ya didn't have no feelings ......

 

Why don't sharks attack Lawyers ??????

 

 

Professional curtisey ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy:

 

I agree with Creeker - Just go ahead and shoot - 10 in the first pistol, 10 in the first rifle, and four in the shotgun. You can always say "opps" Guess that is a "P" for me. and move on. You came to shoot, so shoot.

 

STL Suomi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really?

 

If I said, "you know boys, I come out here and do this for fun. This here stage ain't ringing my bell. I think I would prefer to pick brass for the entire posse this stage and hope for fun on the next one", you would think that untoward?

REALLY!

 

Your idea of a "protest" is a bit less than the intent of the OP. But, still I'd avoid being on a posse with you like the plague with you stomping around like your taste in target array's, stage designs, angle of the sun, etc. is enough to cause you to make a scene.

 

This here is a great example of "Cowboy Way". Buck it up, saddle up and get the job done.... a little less whining and a little more 'can do' would do the whole country good.

 

If not.... I've got a video game selection you might be happier playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still think you should only shoot when it is fun.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

 

yikes

 

hi-jack alert

hi-jack alertt

 

what is fun?

 

LOL-LOL-LOL

 

carry on folks

its winter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lot of folks on here say that sitting out a stage is not the cowboy way. They would be correct, if you wanted to do it the cowboy way just start raising hell and get into a fight. If someone wants to sit out a stage let them especially if there still helping with posse duties. That’s more than some folks that are shootin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it ain't insulting to Manatee, I would like to expand on his post.

 

Now think about this fellers:

 

You're at a match. Everyone seems to be having fun. Then out of the blue, Mr. Hardworking, Funloving Cowboy seems alittle irritated and decides he just don't want to shoot the stage.

 

PLEASE, for safety sake, don't try to talk him into loading his guns and participating. And for sure, don't toss any flack his way.

 

You have NO IDEA what might be going on. SURE, it might be a way to protest a stage scenerio. But what has all of a sudden caused one of your shooting Pards to seemingly acquire this 'mind set'.

 

Be cautious and ifn I were around such an incident, I would also be very courteous.

 

 

..........Widder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been shootin fer a long spell now

been to many shoots in many states, over that time frame

I have seen, good matches / bad matches

good stages / bad stages

good folks / some not so good at times

 

never scene a feller sit out a stage cuz they did not think it would be fun / difficult

 

 

 

this is :)

 

do what ya think is right

......................................as long as its legal like

 

shucks, years from now,

all them shoots?

well, they will all seem fun, in retrospect!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If it ain't insulting to Manatee, I would like to expand on his post.

 

Now think about this fellers:

 

You're at a match. Everyone seems to be having fun. Then out of the blue, Mr. Hardworking, Funloving Cowboy seems alittle irritated and decides he just don't want to shoot the stage.

 

PLEASE, for safety sake, don't try to talk him into loading his guns and participating. And for sure, don't toss any flack his way.

 

You have NO IDEA what might be going on. SURE, it might be a way to protest a stage scenerio. But what has all of a sudden caused one of your shooting Pards to seemingly acquire this 'mind set'.

 

Be cautious and ifn I were around such an incident, I would also be very courteous.

 

 

..........Widder

 

Widder's comment speaks to something broader than this thread, but yes, very important. Yes, we're there to have fun, and yes, we do that with real guns and real bullets. ANY time a shooter gets so angry or upset it is obvious is NO TIME for him to be handling loaded guns. We rely on, trust our very lives to the sensibility of our pards. Every now and then a man might get realllllllly hot under the collar for whatever reason, and he ought to know that's the time to take a break, maybe even voluntarily remove himself from the scene.

 

I know of one situation where two cowboys got into some verbal exchange that deteriorated beyond the pale, with one tossing some "bombs" normally reserved for the last words before fisticuffs, and the other pard decided it was the better part of valor to just NOT load his guns and shoot.

 

So while I would not encourage a "deliberate" cool-headed boycott of a stage as a protest, if a pard does get POed for whatever reason, to include, but not limited to a "what is this crap?" assessment of a stage, and decides to sit, let him. Might be the man knows his own limitations and has tripped the "circuit breaker" to let himself cool off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BK, so long as he ain't ridin' the owlhoot trail, then I am "necessarily" a feller's friend.

 

Edit to add: I been called a lot worser'n a weasel by lots of owlhoots. I'd jest grin which really infuriates 'em.

 

I didn't care, I was headin' home and they were left layin' around the iron bar hacienda with Turk and Bubba waitin' to speak to the judge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me give you an example. I was at a shoot. A stage required wearing womens clothes. I am not a transvestite, I am happy for those who enjoy such things but I have no interest in participating in such activities. I seriously considered sitting out the stage.

 

I have been shootin fer a long spell now

been to many shoots in many states, over that time frame

I have seen, good matches / bad matches

good stages / bad stages

good folks / some not so good at times

 

never scene a feller sit out a stage cuz they did not think it would be fun / difficult

 

 

 

this is :FlagAm:

 

do what ya think is right

......................................as long as its legal like

 

shucks, years from now,

all them shoots?

well, they will all seem fun, in retrospect!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't like how stages are being set up, a polite conversation with the club and offering to help design ans set up stages is the right thing to do.

 

If I were on a posse and someone acted like this, I'd think them a pompous butthead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

From reading some of these posts, it seems that some of you are overlooking the OP's statement that the sitting out is in protest of complexity; not safety, shooter's physical condition, weather...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually shoot slower than my usual slow pace when I have to think. Never seem to get a headache from the effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I didn't like a stage, it's my option not to shoot it. I wouldn't complain loudly at the match (though I've expressed my displeasure with some scenarios on the Wire before :FlagAm: ).

 

It kinda depends on what the stage writers are trying to accomplish. If they're making it complicated because they want to slow down the fast guys....or take pleasure in making folks miss...then I think I might sit out a stage. If it was a recurring nightmare at this club, I'd stop attending the matches.

 

You paid your money and no one should force you to shoot a stage if you are in any way not focused on it. We shoot loaded guns.

 

Lemme repeat: we shoot loaded guns.

Now there's the point!

 

Complexity can VERY much be a factor in safety...

 

I don't shoot much these days, but I do have clear memories of a couple of stages that were complex to the point that I could see them presenting a safety issue if an inexperienced (or older!) shooter was confused - and yup, I've seen THAT happen, too.

 

Now, that said... I once followed the Judge hisself in the lineup at a match that had just such a stage. His approach was classic! When the buzzer sounded, he casually strolled to the starting point, slowly and methodically pulled out a ceegar, trimmed it, lit it, had a puff or two, then pulled his first revolver and carefully and slowly shot the targets while taking the required "counted" steps between shots. He continued this pace for the remainder of the stage.

 

Without a word being said, he verrry clearly demonstrated his less-than-approving opinion of the stage design.

 

Nope... if a shooter doesn't feel comfortable with a stage I'd far rather he just sit it out. Lessons are learned, and there's no point in compromising safety for the purpose of protecting the feelings of a stage designer. Just let it go... there'll be plenty others. :FlagAm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had to wear a granny sun dress on one stage "back in the day" when such things were common.

 

That was before I read in the KJV that it were a sin.

 

Who knew. What we thot was good clean fun is a sin.

 

I'd like to see the fun stuff make a come back.

 

but I ain't a never gonna wear no sun dress no more.

 

The scenario was you was upstairs at the hotel with a lady of the evening when the owlhoots decided to rob the bank. In your haste to get into the fray you throwed on her dress and slapped yer holster rig on over it. The line came after all the shootin' was done, "honest, Sheriff this is my under the covers clothes".

 

I think that was the same shoot where you were weak-wristed Willie in one scenario and your line was "yoo-hoo Buckaroo". Not that there's anything wrong with it but I'll just go ahead and take my 30 second SOG penalty if that one comes up again.

 

Last week end one of the start lines was "cowgirls rule". I thot Comanche Tom, a very fast junior was gonna go ahead and take the 30 seconds before he finally muttered it, real low like...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me give you an example. I was at a shoot. A stage required wearing womens clothes. I am not a transvestite, I am happy for those who enjoy such things but I have no interest in participating in such activities. I seriously considered sitting out the stage.

 

But you didn't.

 

See Allie's post #96.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like all post

this here one has

good points on both sides of the trail

 

genericly speaking (cuz I dont know ALL the facts that started this one),

but this answer is fueled by this post, once again genericly, not to this stage or shooter

 

I can certainly see the "its not the cowboy way" as I would ask my self

what would Roy, Hoppy, Tonto or the Duke due

"the cowboy code"

thats watt

I can see, dont force a feller ta shoot due to startin a interpersonal confrontation, or takin them to their breaking point

geeeese, that is scary,,,,,,

perhaps, cowboy action shooting is not for all folks

iffen we got ta tip toe-boot-scoot-boogie:::around em

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have not done this but I would like to get some opinions on a type of protest I am thinking of initiating. In a previous thread the subject of complicated stages was brought up. In my opinion CAS is a shooting activity and not a puzzle. I have in the past mentioned to ROs that it would be nice to design simpler stages. When I show up to help set up and get a chance to design a stage I do so very simply. Folks seem to enjoy them.

 

 

Alas, I still see to many puzzles. What would you think of a posse' member who elected to sit out a stage and take the penalty time. I would still take care of all my posse' duties; scoring, manning the loading/unloading tables, etc. I just wouldn't shoot that stage.

 

 

If I found that I was sitting out too many stages I guess I'd have to find myself another club at which to shoot. May I have your opinions please?

 

I would not mind if someone sat out a stage as long as they did their part on the posse. We have folks who do this now if they get tired, too hot, too cold, etc. Now if a shooter sits out a stage because they feel UNSAFE due to the stage design than the range marshall should be made aware of this situation pronto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello,

 

From reading some of these posts, it seems that some of you are overlooking the OP's statement that the sitting out is in protest of complexity; not safety, shooter's physical condition, weather...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Very true Allie.

 

But the one thought that entered my mind was; 'what has made this Cowboy determine that this stage is tooooo complex to shoot'?

 

That little item alone should warrant some concern. Atleast enough concern to courteously honor that shooters request.

 

I like AJ's analogy that its possible that a 'circuit breaker' has tripped and we should be aware of that possibility.

 

(hugs to the West Coast)

 

..........Widder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...sometimes a particular stage may come across as confusing just 'cause, in those instances, just ask the RO for a little coaching through it....

 

...but still shoot it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the intervening years, I have less patience for such things and peer pressure means less to me. If it happened today, I probably would sit it out and let the transvestites have their fun..........

 

But you didn't.

 

See Allie's post #96.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.