"New" Catagory

[Nate Clayton, SASS #63196]

NCOWS has such a category "THE ORIGINALS"You have to be period

correct from hat to toes and have a story behind who you are to go with the dress

 

Ah hem, I ain't wearing no dress! I think this category needs a different name.

 

 

 

Anyway, with regards to the OP, why is it that some folks feel a need to add a new category to shoot happy? I would get far more satisfaction placing (wherever that may be) shooting whatever legal firearms, style, bullets, and appropriate clothing I like ... (not a dress).

 

If you don't win a prize, swing by McDonald's on the way home and order a happy meal.

 

-Nate

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I feel really bad for you. It would appear that you are currently live in an isolated region where SASS members are different then the rest of the country. I have shot in several different states with shooters from ALL over the country and the world and have yet to be surrounded by cut throats.

 

Well if you ever get the chance come on down to Florida....we like to compete but we also like to have a good time. Seems to me we are having just as much fun now as when I started....heck maybe even more.

 

I have to warn you.....We do have gun mods and there are guys using Rugers and such in FL as well.....I seem to remember Tex, you know SASS#4, writing about a mod done to his guns to keep the fired caps from falling into it and jamming it up (in the EARLY 80's PERHAPS?). .....Didn't someone write an article stating that blackhawks were one of the most common single actions in the early days? That's right it was Tex, SASS#4....You know I hate it when the facts get in the way of a good story don't you?

 

As one of my SASS pards says all the time....."I'm just looking for an honest advantage".....LOL

 

Stan - who is still having a BALL shooting SASS!

 

Preach it, brother! Amen and hallelujah!

 

As for me and the good ol' days, well, I plan them in advance. Wish I was going to Orlando for The Last Stand in January. That will be some good ol' days!

Live and let live!

[Korupt Karl]

Oh darn I must have been halucinating back in when I first got into it then! Granted, it had been going for a few years before I started but still the period correct standards that they were operating under at that time was what attracted me and once I found out how much fun it was to just go and shoot with abunch of people that wern't all cut throat and not worried about gold medals and sh!% was refreshing. However seeing how you seem to be the resident history matter expert, I must have been dreaming, it was all IPSC from the get go!

Oh excuse me I, meant back when CAS was fun. I remember a different attitude and atmosphere. But then again that was probably.....before your time perhaps?

Ahh yes,...the edge...I don't have the skills to compete evenly so I will rely on technology to give me...."The edge".

 

 

SORRY....got a little long winded below.....KK

 

 

 

I have only been in this sport for a little over five years. I have been competing since day one, first with myself and then with other competitors....it's how we are brought up from the early sports. We are taught to try and win. I've shot every category I could and for the first three years didn't know what category I was shooting til I got to the match to find out what my buddies were shooting so I could shoot against them.

 

I also learned from day one that I could get better but I have finally realized that I couldn't buy a game.... those that know me have seen me own about every gun with about every mod and I still am a mediocre shooter....but I excell at having fun while I'm competing.....I love the people and the sport and I accept whatever the powers to be decide to do with it.

 

On another note we have cowboys that shoot totally for the fun of it. Nothing bothers them, a miss is a ho hum miss and nothing more. If they have props to deal with after the buzzer....no problem. There are also shooters that you couldn't "even the playing field for" no matter what you did and those that know it....play the game and enjoy it for what it is...A GAME.

 

I can also tell you that you can make whatever category you want with whatever equipment you want and the Duece's, the Bud's, the Colt's, the Lassiter's, the Red River Rays, the Fireballs, Mad Marty and the list goes on...would still outshoot us. Hell, you could give them a Burgiss and they would beat us with our 73's.

 

I saw Duece shoot a three target sweep, ten shots with a BORROWED rifle in under 2.5 seconds.... a borrowed rifle from another shooter standing in line and it was a non shortstroked Marlin. I was running the timer at Last Stand when it happened.

You can't beat talent. Do like T Bone and in one year go from last place to winning his category at EOT....how you ask? He worked his butt off practicing. Talent, I suppose so, but more so with determination and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

 

Let's get away from more categories and settle in....change our game where we can.... make our tools work better.... enjoy the people and all the fun things that go on when we are off the clock. Maintain the smile on your face..... and like T Flash says.... lend a hand to someone in need.

 

Just my two scents.

 

KK

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

Back in the early days when I started shooting Cowboy Action matches, about '93 or '94, we didn't use two gun rigs. If a second pistol was called for, it was staged somewhere. The two gun rigs came into use in the late '90's, at least here in Florida they did.

 

Again at the start around here, they would let you use a double action pistol as long as you shot it single action. There was also some flexibility for shotguns.

 

Clothing was usually just jeans, boots a hat and a long sleeved shirt.

 

When I started my guns were an old 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag, second gun was a 1st gen Colt in .44-40, rifle was an old Winchester Model 92 in 32-20, shotgun was an old Royal double in 12 gauge, and my leather was a homemade buscadero single rig with shotgun shells in my shirt pocket.

 

It was fun because it was all new back then.

 

Now, I use (among other things) short-stroked Ruger New Vaqueros in .357, a short-stroked .357 Uberti '73, a slicker-than-snot Winchester '97, custom leather with holsters cut down in the front and flared for easier draw and reholster along with a shotgun belt that is cut and molded to stick the shells out a little for easier grabbing.

 

Along with that, I wear (in weather warmer than this) one of the new "Cool Shirts" and light-weight pants. And a Sunbody straw hat.

 

I've still got the old guns and jeans and leather - BUT - Do I want to go back?

 

In the immortal words of John Wayne "Not Hardly!!!!!!!!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards AO

[Anvil Al #59168]

Oh darn I must have been halucinating back in when I first got into it then! Granted, it had been going for a few years before I started but still the period correct standards that they were operating under at that time was what attracted me and once I found out how much fun it was to just go and shoot with abunch of people that wern't all cut throat and not worried about gold medals and sh!% was refreshing. However seeing how you seem to be the resident history matter expert, I must have been dreaming, it was all IPSC from the get go!

Oh excuse me I, meant back when CAS was fun. I remember a different attitude and atmosphere. But then again that was probably.....before your time perhaps?

Ahh yes,...the edge...I don't have the skills to compete evenly so I will rely on technology to give me...."The edge".

 

 

 

As Stan said. I feel sorry for you.

All the places I shoot are still having a ball.

See no cut throat stuff going on at all. Folks helping and cheering those that they are

in competition with. Cheering them on to do there best and helping them in every way.

 

It is CLEAR. You are not shooting at the same places, or with the same people I am.

I shoot at a club that at any giving monthly there will be 5-8, or more World Champions there.

And everyone. To a man/lady. Is joking. Having fun. And would give you the shirt off there back

if it would help you. Will stay and show you EVERY thing they know and help you in every way.

And all the time. Laughing and having fun.

Sorry you have not found a club like that.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

Ill go you one better lets start a class with vintage guns-All your

guns have to been made before 1900 -no reproductions-i have a

original 1897 Winchester pump and a S&W 38 pocket pistol-all i need

is an old rifle that wont blow up in my face.All your clothes have to be home spun

and you make your own Leather boots and holsters! now thats class

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

Ah hem, I ain't wearing no dress! I think this category needs a different name.

 

 

 

Anyway, with regards to the OP, why is it that some folks feel a need to add a new category to shoot happy? I would get far more satisfaction placing (wherever that may be) shooting whatever legal firearms, style, bullets, and appropriate clothing I like ... (not a dress).

 

If you don't win a prize, swing by McDonald's on the way home and order a happy meal.

 

-Nate

Nate if the stage directions say you wear a dress i know you would jump right in!!! :ph34r:

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

How about a catagory about the way it was in the begining

 

 

 

I don't think I would look good in a fig leaf. SASS shooters all over Texas are gouging their eyes out as you read this.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

MY EYES MY EYES!!!!ahhhh

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

MY EYES MY EYES!!!!ahhhh :wacko:oops both eyes

[Doc Cuervo]

Where did you get the idea this was the way it was at the very start of CAS. There was no requirement for totally unmodified firearms, authentic leather, no ammo requirements, most of pistols were Rugers, leather was whatever the shooter had at home the guns would fit in, western clothes were a hat, jeans, and some sort of shirt. Inquiring minds want to know. If you doubt it, just look at photos of early matches including the first EOT.

HORSE APPLES! There were just as many original period firearms and replicas as there were rugers. Steel lined holsters were not allowed. Yeah back then they did not have any clothes nazis, (and still don't), in SASS and a lot of leway was given to new shooters. Not a problem. And there were ammo requirements; a minimum and a maximum.

I am quite sure that you probably are miss lead a bit by having nothing but photos of early matches to go by, not having been there yourself.

[Doc Cuervo]

Well I actually don't advocate a new catagory cause we have too many as it is. I was just kinda speculating to see what the response would be. some good poinds were made an some showed the south end of a north bound mule. I never condemned rugers as a whole I just mentioned the old army as not being anywhere close to historicly accurate. It is interesting though how defensive people get without reading the entire post.

You don't have to feel sorry for me cause I do still have fun and I find a great bunch of people where ever I go shoot. However there are those that are condisending, egotistical and ever ready for a fight, but not many. I remember a few years back, shooting up at Bailey, CO and a shooter arguing for fifteen minutes about a disputed shot that he claimed to have made and the counters, timer and spectators called a miss. This was a monthly match; finally it came down to, "Hey there is no gold medal for this one, but if it is that big a deal we'll give ya tha hit". The shooter was happy but had lost lot's of credibility and respect.

At the start of this thread, I will admit I stirred the pot a bit but I meant no hostility to anyone and I truly thank those that responded in a polite friendly manner. To the rest, have a nice day at the beach.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Well I actually don't advocate a new catagory cause we have too many as it is. I was just kinda speculating to see what the response would be. some good poinds were made an some showed the south end of a north bound mule. I never condemned rugers as a whole I just mentioned the old army as not being anywhere close to historicly accurate. It is interesting though how defensive people get without reading the entire post.

You don't have to feel sorry for me cause I do still have fun and I find a great bunch of people where ever I go shoot. However there are those that are condisending, egotistical and ever ready for a fight, but not many. I remember a few years back, shooting up at Bailey, CO and a shooter arguing for fifteen minutes about a disputed shot that he claimed to have made and the counters, timer and spectators called a miss. This was a monthly match; finally it came down to, "Hey there is no gold medal for this one, but if it is that big a deal we'll give ya tha hit". The shooter was happy but had lost lot's of credibility and respect.

At the start of this thread, I will admit I stirred the pot a bit but I meant no hostility to anyone and I truly thank those that responded in a polite friendly manner. To the rest, have a nice day at the beach.

 

Wait...let me get this straight. You intentionally stir the pot...and then ya get all over the folks that respond harshly?

 

Interesting...

 

Now I wasn't around back when the SASS membership was at 7K...but I've sat around and shot the breeze with a LOT of single, double and triple digit members...that were around long before you. So...would I be qualified to comment?

 

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Doc Cuervo, you are certainly entitled to your thoughts and opinions have the right to ask questions and share ideas. In fact I'll defend your right to do so. But out of curiosity can you produce a handbook from the era that you are talking about that specifically outlaws steel lined holsters, steel lined holsters have been in use forever (as in well before the B western era) and were widely available when SASS/CAS began. Also folks have been modifying gunn ever since there they were first made. I guess the problem that people have is that it's hard to read your comments and not think that there is some bad feelings towards folks that compete and use gun modifications and ammo within the rules. You may not feel that it's the right way to play the game. But good CAS gunsmtihs are not backlogged for months on end because only the top 10% of shooters are using them. I know folks that shoot double the stage times that I do have have more raced equipment than I do. But thats the way they enjoy the game. It's a big tent. I'm sorry that you have had some bad experiences with people that take the game a bit to seriously at times. We all play for our own reasons, and someone else's version should not affect yours.

[Doc Cuervo]

Wait...let me get this straight. You intentionally stir the pot...and then ya get all over the folks that respond harshly?

 

Interesting...

 

Now I wasn't around back when the SASS membership was at 7K...but I've sat around and shot the breeze with a LOT of single, double and triple digit members...that were around long before you. So...would I be qualified to comment?

 

I know, my bad. Hell yeah comment any time. It's all in good spirits.

Now I said I only stired the pot a bit.

[Doc Cuervo]

Doc Cuervo, you are certainly entitled to your thoughts and opinions have the right to ask questions and share ideas. In fact I'll defend your right to do so. But out of curiosity can you produce a handbook from the era that you are talking about that specifically outlaws steel lined holsters, steel lined holsters have been in use forever (as in well before the B western era) and were widely available when SASS/CAS began. Also folks have been modifying gunn ever since there they were first made. I guess the problem that people have is that it's hard to read your comments and not think that there is some bad feelings towards folks that compete and use gun modifications and ammo within the rules. You may not feel that it's the right way to play the game. But good CAS gunsmtihs are not backlogged for months on end because only the top 10% of shooters are using them. I know folks that shoot double the stage times that I do have have more raced equipment than I do. But thats the way they enjoy the game. It's a big tent. I'm sorry that you have had some bad experiences with people that take the game a bit to seriously at times. We all play for our own reasons, and someone else's version should not affect yours.

I agree, guns have had action jobs since they existed. My personal feelings now..I said my personal feelings...short stroking modifys the firearm beyond what would have been done in the 19th century. Now if you are using ammo that won't penetrate your boot when you shoot yourself in the foot, come on, how realistic is that. They are firearms..weapons, they were meant to do damage to a target, not just make noise.

I'll see if I can dig up my first manual. Hell you may be right. I do know that steel lined buscaderos were frowned on.

Personaly, (there we go with that P word again), I don't care what ya shoot; like thay say, "It's a big tent", just know that I probably think some folks are sissys when I hear pphhtt dink.

[Mustang Gregg]

'Zat mean---

All loads are goona be BP?

No plastic shotshells?

Bathe only once a month?

Gotta ride your horse to a shoot?

No electronic timers???? WHOA!!!

 

I don't reckon I'll sign up fer that category.

Just funnin'.

 

Merry Christmas, Pards!

MG

[Doc Cuervo]

'Zat mean---

All loads are goona be BP?

No plastic shotshells?

Bathe only once a month?

Gotta ride your horse to a shoot?

No electronic timers???? WHOA!!!

 

I don't reckon I'll sign up fer that category.

Just funnin'.

 

Merry Christmas, Pards!

MG

Timed by certified Elgin railroad watches, sundials or hourglass. You choose

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

o i git it! this was posted just to stir the pot (piss off as many people as possible

for your pleasure) i see now its clear glad you enjoyed the show-i hope i responded

with some ideas that you liked-now go join NCOWS.

[crooked jake,4371]

......allrighty then

[Korupt Karl]

http://www.shaketails.net/Final_Tattler/Ta...2010Tattler.pdf - scroll down for scores

 

Doc; Looked at your club from your avatar listing. I to shoot SD on ocassion and it looks like you have a good looking club. I was surprised to see that you only shot once in a six month period from April to Sept. You aren't one of those guys that rarely shoots and yet sits at home and stirs the pot???? are ya?

 

Don't get the animals too excited this early in the winter.....cabin fever is hard on em.

 

Enjoy your day. KK

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

I would suggest that if anyone really is interested in what SASS was and how it was perceived in the early days that they acquire the first six years of the chronicle and read them .

 

 

T J B

[Charlie Whiskers]

God I hope we don't go back.I'd have to go clothes shopping at goodwill or SA to find clothes close to what cowboys actually wore back then,not the Hollyweird version of it.And I have too much money tied up in my guns to start buying more.Although,one can never have too many guns.As far as a level playing field,I never disillusion myself with the thought of EVER winning a match,so I just go shoot for FUN....remember FUN.

[Two Gun Johnnie]

Hey Doc,

You may be on to something that does need to be fixed.

The next time one of those shooters is using ammo that will not penatrate through a boot, ask them for some of that ammo, put it in your gun, get well away from everyone, and test it on YOUR boot. If you are right, please make sure you tell the match director ASAP about the light ammo!!!!!

 

 

Two Gun

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

just know that I probably think some folks are sissys when I hear pphhtt dink.

You mean no hostility, but you follow up with an insult to thousands of members? Those words don't look good from where I sit.

[BJT]

Sad to say, but how about a catagory that goes back to the very start of CAS. One with requirements like: totaly unmodified firearms, authentic 1860-1910 leather, (ie no speed rigs and shotgun bras), Ammunition, pistol min velocity 650fps max 1000fps, rifle min 900fps max 1300fps. No firearms invented after 1910...PERIOD! no ruger old model armys, henry big bores, etc. etc. if it is not an original or replica of a weapon of the era don't even bring it to the range. Clothing/costume authentic to the period.

The sole purpose is to put everyone on equal footing to compete with what they had during the period. Let's take the classes; Traditional, duelist, gunfightrer. Sub-divide each of those class with; smokless, black powder, senior, mens, women and junior.

Kinda like reinventing the wheel I guess.

 

Was that how it was in the beginning? Pretty sure gunfighter was a relatively late development. I heard the first EOT was won with a Ruger Blackhawk, in a small caliber.

 

Still, I am open to any category AFTER FCGF is approved!!

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

How bout a Classic Caveman category. We can hurl sticks and stones. Grunt a lot. You know, "the way it was in the beginning."

[BJT]

As long as there are cave women as well!!!

 

 

 

How bout a Classic Caveman category. We can hurl sticks and stones. Grunt a lot. You know, "the way it was in the beginning."

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

As long as there are cave women as well!!!

 

+1

[William Waddy]

There are so many reasons why the proposal made in this thread is wrong - most of which have already been beat to death.

 

But just to "stir the pot stirrer," a little, I want to say that I have little respect for anyone proposing a back-to-basic category who is not already shooting in either the FCD or FCGF categories, and using genuine bp and period-correct calibers. How about it Doc - do you at least take it that far - do you practice what you preach?

 

Now don't get me wrong, I myself am more than happy with the game the way it is and allowing everyone to shoot what they brung, long as it's legal. My only beef is with the fahrts who think we should not have a FCGF category, cuz God himself created that category when he created the cowboy.

[stepnmud#33546]

As long as there are cave women as well!!!

 

 

Well,...OK.

[Griff]

Doc,

 

You're stll hallucinatin'! How 'bout you PM me your email addy and I'll shoot you a PDF file of a 1989 rule book. You can then copy & paste those excerts that support your recollections and the rest of us can eat our words... or not. Let me know if you want a '92 or a '95... think I got a coupla more if you think that'll help.

 

Don't be bashful.

[Korupt Karl]

I just had lunch with Duece's Uncle Johnny and Duece. Hell, Duece even eats fast. I think I'll force him to eat with chop sticks next time and I'll use a short stroked fork.

 

KK

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Doc,

 

I don't have a problem with one new category (open and women's). A group of categories would be a bit much. I even attempted to gather requirements for such a category here on the Wire. I spent quite a bit of time on it. Folks just could not agree on one category and IMO more categories will not fly!

 

After seeing FCGF fail, I don't think this has a chance either; but, good luck trying.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Doc Cuervo]

http://www.shaketails.net/Final_Tattler/Ta...2010Tattler.pdf - scroll down for scores

 

Doc; Looked at your club from your avatar listing. I to shoot SD on ocassion and it looks like you have a good looking club. I was surprised to see that you only shot once in a six month period from April to Sept. You aren't one of those guys that rarely shoots and yet sits at home and stirs the pot???? are ya?

 

Don't get the animals too excited this early in the winter.....cabin fever is hard on em.

 

Enjoy your day. KK

Well no, don't spend much time in the cabin, cause as a defense contractor I often have to make little trips overseas. When I am stateside I try to shoot everychance I get. But one has to work for a living.

Also I think ya missed a couple months there NN