Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 In the For What It's Worth department, I've tried speed runs shooting Gunfighter with several different types of guns, both short stroked and not. The fastest were .32 Ruger Vaqueritos that have been short stroked (by me). Next were .357 New Vaqueros also short stroked by me. Next were .32-20 Colts with stock hammers. (Not short stroked.) The slowest were standard Old model Vaqueros. This would probably change depending on what style one was shooting, hand size, and dexterity. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to short stroke anything, but it works for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Wayne Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Where'd you shoot with Shalako Joe? Oh, and Bud's SG is smooth????? Now ya got me wondering. Didnt shoot with Shalako Joe,Shalako Tucker D-Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Didnt shoot with Shalako Joe,Shalako Tucker D-Wayne Duuuuuhble tap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Didnt shoot with Shalako Joe,Shalako Tucker D-Wayne Yeah...I know Now what was that about Bud's SG being "smooooth"???? PS: I referenced Shalako Joe cuz he's a two time World Champ that shoots an essentially stock rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 In the For What It's Worth department, I've tried speed runs shooting Gunfighter with several different types of guns, both short stroked and not. The fastest were .32 Ruger Vaqueritos that have been short stroked (by me). Next were .357 New Vaqueros also short stroked by me. Next were .32-20 Colts with stock hammers. (Not short stroked.) The slowest were standard Old model Vaqueros. This would probably change depending on what style one was shooting, hand size, and dexterity. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to short stroke anything, but it works for me! Are you dumping? If so, try that sweeping five targets. I've found that I can cock MUCH faster than I can aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Are you dumping? If so, try that sweeping five targets. I've found that I can cock MUCH faster than I can aim. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Doubleday Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Are you dumping? If so, try that sweeping five targets. I've found that I can cock MUCH faster than I can aim. Aim?? Dang I knew I was missing something...gonna have to go read Doc's stuff again... KDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tator Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I own 4 old model rugers with two different gunsmith's short strokes. two from lassiter and two from wes flowers. i cant tell a difference. anyway, i have shot them for over two years now and in my opinion they helped me alot. I have shot them on a time and watched my splits and they are alot lower than they used to be with regular pistols. My 5 shots on one target are the same but a sweep of 5 targets or a nevada sweep, my splits are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Hey Flint, thanks for the information on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Cuervo Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 You were making a statement that pretty much implied that you have to do mods to win. And putting down folks that do. Bud shoots stock rugers...OMV's just like I do. He also doesn't slip hammer...which I do. Shalako pretty much shoots box stock rifles...I don't and neither does Bud. I'm glad you've had an opportunity to speak with either Bud or his dad about what type of equipment he uses...work his 97 some time...you might be further impressed. Now has far as you being ignorant...yes, you are. And being that you are rather new at this game, this is something that would be expected. Phantom I'll say this; if you stand on the firing line with a shooter that uses stock out of the box firearms and standard loads. While you need short stroke this and that with mouse fart loads to beat him, you just aren't up to the challange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'll say this; if you stand on the firing line with a shooter that uses stock out of the box firearms and standard loads. While you need short stroke this and that with mouse fart loads to beat him, you just aren't up to the challange! wow.....how insightful.......and very cowboy to boot. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tator Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'm with Stan on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 One of the reasons that alot of shooters do not accept the concept that ss rifles, ss pistols and fancy SG's equate to Championships is because it just ain't so. While ss rifles and ss pistols are nice, they don't necessarily equate to the individual shooter gaining speeds. What equates to gaining speeds and championships is................PRACTICE. Check out Doc Shapiro's Cowboy World Records site. The pistols used in the GF record runs and Traditional records have not been short stroked. Plus, the hammer springs are sufficiently strong to get that hammer down fast and insure ignition of the primers. Powder loads have to be sufficient to fire the rounds without worrying about primers backing out and jamming up the guns. Deuce's rifle run is underestimated by those who really don't know about his rifle. Dimensionally, his rifle shouldn't even be considered a short stroke set up. To my knowledge, the opening distance of the lever has been established at the point where lever over travel has been eliminated. My Marlins will work the same when operated without fully opening the lever. Eliminating overtravel shouldn't be looked upon as equivalent to short stroke.....in my opinion. Kinda like a Ruger Vaq: eliminating hammer overtravel is ALOT different than short stroking the pistols. The mere thought that light loads, light hammer springs and short strokes equate to speed is at best a good talking point when someone wants to discuss something they know little about. Want to be a Champ? Want to shoot fast? Practice my friends, practice! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'll say this; if you stand on the firing line with a shooter that uses stock out of the box firearms and standard loads. While you need short stroke this and that with mouse fart loads to beat him, you just aren't up to the challange! I'd post what I really think of this statement, but it wouldn't help. Frankly, you have a deluded sense of why some folks are really good shooters. You seem to think it's about the equipment. It ain't. It's about the shooter. Go out and PRACTICE! Wanna be an instant top shooter? Maybe the big fish at your local pond? Go shoot half a million rounds and dry fire practice 30 minutes a day for the time it takes you to shoot that much ammo. Then come see me (or Evil Roy, or Longhunter, or Handlebar Doc, or T-Bone Dooley, or any number of other shooting coaches) and we'll clean up the rough spots. Think I'm kidding? Nope. It really does take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I hadn't heard of short stroking revolvers before, but then again, I don't get around much anymore. But now I'm thinking,,hmmmn short stroke my Walkers. Yeah, that's the ticket. Look out EOT overall champions, here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Many of the NASCAR teams pass my business on the way to Talladega. I sit and dream of hijacking one of the cars 'cause I just know if I had one of those cars, I'd win Talladega...on a regular basis. It's all about the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Cuervo Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Please, by all means, do not be mistaken, I do know the value of practice. I may have fallen off the turnip truck, but it wasn't last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Please, by all means, do not be mistaken, I do know the value of practice. I may have fallen off the turnip truck, but it wasn't last night. Stock or modified, the sights line up the same. You may want to practice the basics first before taking on any Top Guns. At least according to the score sheet from the CO shaketails shoot for aug where ya had 140 seconds in penalties. Practice, practice, practice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Please, by all means, do not be mistaken, I do know the value of practice. I may have fallen off the turnip truck, but it wasn't last night. Perhaps not, but keep talking like that and you're likely to be run over by one. The fact is there are rules, rules that I go by when I modify any (and all) of my guns. The same rules apply to everyone in this sport, so avail yourself of the allowable mods, or don't. Shoot full-house loads, or don't. Practice or don't. But don't piss on those that choose to better their equipment to suit their personal taste. I have made this challenge to many, but none have taken me up on it, so I will make it to you: Anytime you want to swap equipment and loads and challenge me to a stage just bring it on. Winner keeps the other guy's equipment. ("said the spyder to the fly"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Dan, I was going to take you up on that challenge until you and Stan tripped me at the match the other day. Now I'm disabled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubstake charlie Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 The fact is there are rules, rules that I go by when I modify any (and all) of my guns. The same rules apply to everyone in this sport, so avail yourself of the allowable mods, or don't. Shoot full-house loads, or don't. Practice or don't. ... +1 Everyone is supposed to play by the same set of rules. If guns and loads are within the rules whats the beef? SASS is supposed to be fun. Some folks get their fun being fast, some like costuming, some like reloading, some like gunsmithing, some like all of it. I have nerve damage in both hands (from CTS) and have traded revolvers several times to try and find what works for me. Got my first set from LongHunter (USFA's 45's) and used them until I realized that I needed larger grips and after trying standard Rugers switched to Alchimistas (38's). I can shoot the 45's almost as fast as the 38's, but after shooting the 38's my hands still 'work' the next day. Was that the end of my equipment search? Nope! Right now I am shooting 2-handed (49'er), but intend to start trying dualist, double dualist, and gunfighter in the next year or so. After playing around a little, I have settled on Bisley Rugers (ss by Wes Flowers) for those '1-gun per hand' shooting categories. The value of the ss is not in really in the speed per shot, but in the time saved when your thumb slips off the hammer before full cock. SS usually saves having to cycle around again. The top shooters have natural ability enhanced by practice. If two shooters have similar ability and experience, then equipment will enter into the equation. But Bud, Evil Roy and LongHunter (and many others) could better most of us shooting anything. For me the most fun is finding out what my limits are and what I can do to improve. I doubt the top shooters have much to worry about from me, but I am going to work and try to find out how good I can be. It took time to understand and implement what I learned from the Evil Roy set of videos. I took one class from LongHunter and the main thing I was capable of learning at that point is how to practice. Next time I will learn more. I learn (or relearn) something at almost every match (if only I could remember it all when it is my turn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Boogie, SASS #67870 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I overheard a few of the seasoned shooters at todays match talking about short stroking a revolver. I have a short stroked 73, but never heard of it when speaking of a revolver. Is it true? If so, who does it, cause I want it. Thanks Hello, Rugers can be short stroked, Colt and clones can be short stroked too. Small problem: this ones are made in Germany Boogie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Dan, I was going to take you up on that challenge until you and Stan tripped me at the match the other day. Now I'm disabled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Dan, I was going to take you up on that challenge until you and Stan tripped me at the match the other day. Now I'm disabled! Sam, Stan and I talked about the fact that your times were getting too close to ours, so steps had to be taken. I carry a bag of small ball-bearings with me at all times just for this kind of thing. Good thing I got to you first, I saw Stan sharpening a large knife for some purpose or another. Hope you heal as fast as you shoot. Dang It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Rod Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 i short stroked one set of my guns and they are faster for me. both sets have the same action jobs with the same springs and i them set up exactly the same way. my splits with the short stroked guns were .15 and with non-short stroked guns they were .19, the timer doesnt lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 i short stroked one set of my guns and they are faster for me. both sets have the same action jobs with the same springs and i them set up exactly the same way. my splits with the short stroked guns were .15 and with non-short stroked guns they were .19, the timer doesnt lie. RR: those are very good splits. Over a 10 shot string, that would equate to 32/100ths of a second gain, assuming your speed could stay constant. For those of you wondering about my math, you can't include the first shot from each pistol. You can only figure in the 4 subsequent shots out of each pistol. If your a GF, the gain would be 36/100ths of a second because you could count it on 9 shots. My 'guess' is that these times were on a dump plate and when multiple targets are introduced, everything would be equal. Merry Christmas all, ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Rod Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Widder, those are my splits between double taps i should have mentioned that sorry. i cant remember what they were on a sweep. i will find out today cause i am going to practice and i really need to work on shooting my 97 something fierce. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 ahhhh, another 97 shooter. great. that what I shoot also. my splits on that are usually between .5 and .55 although I have managed a few .46 and .47's. I grab 2 from the belt with the right hand and feed from the right side. Shot splits between each set (between shots 2 and 3 AND 4 and 5) usually run about 1.15 seconds although I have managed a 1.10 before. I'm still working on it. The SG can be your best friend sometimes. Best regards ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 I'm still working on it. The SG can be your best friend sometimes. Best regards ..........Widder Or your worst nightmare............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Or your worst nightmare............ shoot a SxS and you will start to love you shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Wut duece sed!!!! CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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