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Knarley Bob

Any "Out of the box" shooters?

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Other than I unhooked one trigger return spring, my RVs are stock. My Browning 92s are stock. I don't have many belt buckles to show for it, but I've found stock guns to work good for me. A quality firearm will work fine "out of the box", or it ain't quality. . .

 

DD-DLoS

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Consult the book of armaments (SASS handbook) It allows for what ya can and cannot do.

 

 

I like my rifle slick and quick, my pistols slightly modified, and the shotgun tweaked enough to operate properly and open WIDE fer loading, and frankly, I don't give a diddly what you shoot as long as ya "consult the book of armaments" (and stay within the rules). :rolleyes:

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I wonder where the notion comes into play that there was no smithing of firearms "back in the day". From what I have seen from period photos and books there were plenty of gunsmiths plying their trade in the 1800's as is today.

 

In fact how often have we seen the order from Bat Masterson to Colt for a "Slicked" up pistol.

 

Many are now coming "Tuned" ala the Smokewagon or Alchemista........

 

I appreciate you haven't modified your firearms......

 

I have many of mine to suit my tastes and needs.........

 

I like shooting the period pieces that are different from most, but I have no problem fixing this or that........

 

Youngblood

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In my readings, I have read of many, many officers of the law and outlaws that lost the gunfight due to their gun/ammo not functioning properly. I don't think 'box stock' is really much of an advantage.

 

Possum

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Anybody that wants to can shoot box stock guns. :rolleyes: When somebody suggests action jobs as an improvement, simply state that you are shooting them the way that makes you happy. Really nothing more needs said...

 

Possum

 

+1

 

Must be cold out there.....warning......dead horse beating going on......

 

KC

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I honestly don't care what other people shoot.

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Out of the box- sure-

Revolvers-Freedom arms 97's sequential S/N's out of thebox with the factory trigger action job with the 38 special cylinder don't need anything, factory rounded grips, factory 3 1/2 barrels.

Rifle-Marlin CBCompetition 38 Spl 2nd gen don't need anything.

 

Shotgun Coyote Cap did my Norchesters so they ain't out of the box.

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Who cares...why not ask how many folks wipe the butts with leaves... :rolleyes:

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I Like Maple leaves.

 

KK

 

 

Who cares...why not ask how many folks wipe the butts with leaves... :rolleyes:

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My Ruger pistols are stock....never touched. Not that I think there is a problem with it, just havent taken the time or money to do anything to them.

 

My Stoeger sxs .... only mods to the gun have been done by me.

 

My 73.... it does have a short stroke kit, and the only smoothing or tuning has been done by me.

 

The work I have done to my guns are comparable to anything that could have been completed during the "period" by any gunsmith....or most any "shooter" of the time.

 

Have fun with what you shoot.....I know I do

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I'm a total gun geek (well, there's a surprise!), but I was surprised at how good the Ruger SASS Vaqueros were out of the box.

 

Now if I could just slick up my brain and hands...

 

Wolf Bane

SASS13357

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Kind a hard to shoot them inside the box. I have to take mine out. Is it anything like shooting inside the cone?

 

 

Oh, poooh :rolleyes:

 

Knarley

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Some of us, Old, Young and or Infirmed, could not participate with "Stock" hard to cock guns. Compete is not in my vocabulary.

I thank and praise the pards that have went the extra step to make our guns easier to use, more fun and add life to a friction free tool.

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For some the idea of a competition is the pursuit of excellence. It's a test of man, machine, ammunition. The test most often goes to the shooter who can keep all three of those together until the end.

 

In my experience that has required every single gun I own to be looked after by a smithy at sometime or another. "And while you're in there... " let's face it- it's part of the fun. Sometimes it's fun to see if you can get it all back together after you "THINK" you solved the problem.

 

Things start to break and slow the progress toward that goal of excellence. Especially as a competitor tries to push their own envelope.

 

You can say that it doesn't or shouldn't matter. But, then you can say whatever you want on the SASS WAHR.

 

I say, "Bring it to the gunfight." This is a gunfight, right? :rolleyes:

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Every new cowboy gun I've bought, I've shot straight out of the box, and will continue to do so. I'm in no hurry, so they can slick up with use. My 1942 vintage 97 Winchester has been used hard and often somewhere and for sometime before it followed me home, but I've had to replace a number of worn internal parts. My Uberti 66 that I bought barely used can slick up with use as well.

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I'll never understand why some folks romanticize over factory tolerances...but, to each their own.

 

I much prefer the work of a talented and passionate gunsmith.

 

-Nate

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Guest Sheriff Pack Wolf, SASS #31917

I shot an out of the box gun once.

 

The stage called for you to shoot both pistols dry, holster, and the take the pistol on the bar and finish the string. They used an out of the box Milenium.

 

I was shooting fast and holstered , ran to the bar and ,.....well,....it just about broke my thumb!.

 

Seriously,....when you are used to a well tuned revolver, you aren't gonna want to pry them hammers back!

 

My old hands say "thanks" at the end of the day shooting those purring kittens. Your milage may vary.

 

Pack

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I see nothing wrong with workin on a gun to make it work "better". I would imagine that has been done from the beginning of gunz.

Old Top and I both just prefer to shoot our gunz as they come, with some minor eceptions. I have smoothed all the bores of my doubles so they will drop the shells smoother. I also do change grips and even some surface finishes to appear as I want them to.

 

I will never be in competition with the top shooters. In fact my speed is getting slower due to pain. (and no, an action job won't help my arthritis..) it is just a personal preference.

 

like in everything else in life.....Some do and Some don't...

 

good shootin

curley

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
I respectfully disagree.

 

Shame on the Purchaser for not holding the "junk" manufacturer to a higher standard.

 

I don't understand the mind set of why "we" expected a brand new 2010 car to run but not a CAS gun?

 

+1

 

Quality assurance and quality control is the big deal in today's manufacturing processes. Everything is "Inspection, Inspection, Inspection." The accept/reject criteria for most American industries are acceptionally high. The firearms makers are no exception. I believe American firearms manufacturers are probably kept at a higher level of quality than that of other manufacturing industies in America.

 

Why? First they recognize that word of mouth has a bigger impact on their product sales than most others, and second and most important they recognize those trying to tear apart their industry ... Anti-Gun Lawyers and Politicians. Their quality control is absolutely critical to them because it is what will help them avoid lawsuits and anti-gun politicians who would love to find a sub-standard firearm to ban "out of concern for the consumer."

 

Remember that the American firearms industry pays huge $$$$$ in Insurance costs to keep their businesses alive. Along with high Insurance costs, it's Quality Control that has driven up the cost of products in America more than almost anything else. The reason is simple. Where the consumer is sometimes silent, it's hungry lawyers ready and willing to sue suspecting deep-pockets that actually keep the firearms manufacturers on their toes.

 

As for quality, foreign manufactures say they are working to American specifications but in reality they are not held to the same Codes (Laws) and/or kept to the same Standards as American Manufacturers. Verification is tough until there is a problem. China is the worse. If there's a problem with product liability, the Communist Chinese Government will actually close down a plant before any American can do an inspection. After everyone is apeased, the Communist will again re-open the Plant (maybe under another name) and manufacture the same product again with very little oversight.

 

If as Gold Canyon Kid said that there is "junk" being sold in the firearms market, then I would suspect that it is coming from overseas where Quality Assurance and Quality Control is ify at best.

 

I shoot "out of box" Rugers. I don't know if Ruger Vaqueros were "specifically" designed to be used to the extent that some super competitive shooters use their Rugers in CAS, but I have found the one's that I have are very reliable for shooting that I do. And though I don't know from first hand experience, I would think that the failure rate of Ruger's firearms is extremely low.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Semper Fi!

:rolleyes:

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+1

 

Quality assurance and quality control is the big deal in today's manufacturing processes. Everything is "Inspection, Inspection, Inspection." The accept/reject criteria for most American industries are acceptionally high.

 

The firearms makers are no exception. I believe American firearms manufacturers are probably kept at a higher level of quality than that of other manufacturing industies in America.

 

Why? Well first they recognize their customer's needs, and second they recognize that word of mouth has a bigger impact on their product than most others, and third and most important they recognize those trying to tear apart their industry ... Anti-Gun Lawyers and Politicians. Their quality control is absolutely critical to them because it is what will help them avoid lawsuits and anti-gun politicians who would love to find a sub-standard firearm to ban "out of concern for the consumer."

 

The American firearms industry pays huge $$$$$ in Insurnace Costs to keep their businesses and keep us armed. I'm sure most manufacturing companies can provide data showing how much $$$$$ they put out to ensure the quality of their product. Quality Control and Insurance Costs are the two factors that have driven up the cost of products in America more than almost anything else. Where the consumer is sometimes silent, hungry lawyers ready to sue suspecting deep-pockets keep the firearms manufacturers on their toes.

 

I cannot say the same for Imported Firearms simply because foreign manufactures say they are working to American specifications but in reality they are not held to the same Codes (Laws) and/or kept to the same Standards as American Manufacturers. Verification is tough until there is a problem. China is the worse. If there's a problem with product liability, the Communist Chinese Government will actually close down a plant before any American can do an inspection. After everyone is apeased, the Communist will again re-open the Plant (maybe under another name) and manufacture the same product again with very little oversight.

 

If as Gold Canyon Kid said there is "junk" being sold in the firearms market, then I would suspect that it is coming from overseas where quality control is ify at best.

 

I shoot "out of box" Rugers. I don't know if Ruger Vaqueros were "specifically" designed to be used to the extent that some super competitive shooters use their Rugers in CAS, but I have found the one's that I have are very reliable. And though I don't know from first hand experience, I would think that the failure rate of Ruger's firearms is extremely low.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Semper Fi!

:rolleyes:

_______________

I agree PC, the only thing is, they are going to make fun of us cause, we ah well, shoot Rugers.

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
_______________

I agree PC, the only thing is, they are going to make fun of us cause, we ah well, shoot Rugers.

 

 

Very true Pard!

 

But I like my Rugers!

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Who cares...why not ask how many folks wipe the butts with leaves... :FlagAm:

 

..or corn cobbs eh? :rolleyes:

 

GG ~ :lol:

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I kind of look at it like worker.

Some like to work harder. Some like to work smarter. :rolleyes:

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Didn't the Indians modify the rifle their rifles to better them for horse back? Maybe they were the ahead of us. Do you think they got pressured from the tribe to shoot the weapons as they were and leave them alone? Na, that's a new thing IMO.....kinda' like giving trophies out to everyone for participating so everyone feels good and can go home with an award.

Nothing wrong with shooting for fun but there is nothin' wrong with winning either. I have won many and lost many more but its still fun no matter how you slice it for me. Getting the right equipment for what you do it always the first place to start if you want to bring out the best of your abilities. There ARE limits to the mod’s we can do and springs, polishing and even having to stroke that 73 a fraction of an inch less is only gonna’ get you so far….ya’ll know that. The field will always stay the same no matter the target size, procedure traps, movement, etc….right down to the modified guns.

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My wife's pickup has taller tires, tinted windows, improved exhaust system, better quality brakes, and an upgraded stereo system. It is safer, faster and gets better gas and tire mileage.

 

Her Harley has a lowered suspension, improved exhaust, better lighting, better tires and better brakes. It is safer, faster, and gets better gas and tire mileage.

 

We won't even begin to discuss the improvements to my vehicles, 'cause it would take seven or more pages to just do my old Harley.

 

I have a gunsmith who jokes about me putting him on retainer because in the last seven or eight years there has not been a time that I didn't have something in his shop!

 

These things make me happy!!!

 

I can't even play guitar anymore because of my hands, but my guitar has better pickups and a tuned action!

 

My baseball glove has spent the last ten years on the shelf, but when my grandsons ask me to throw with them I know the pocket will hold a throw from Nolan Ryan at his best or a liner from Bo Jackson at his peak, it has had a bunch of work done on it so I'll be confident that it will do it's job. I'll probably give it to the younger one when he gets a little bigger, 'cause it looks like he's a lefty too.

 

I hope to hand all these things down to my son and his sons. They've made me happy and they'll most likely make them happy too!!

 

If it makes you happy, then that's what you should do.

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I've only done a few matches and I have been straight out the box. I was using two Ruger Vaquero .45 revolvers, Hartford 1892 in .45 and a Hammerless double gun. That is because that is what I had in the collection already. As I develop my Alias' look I plan to move to 1851 Converions along with either a 73 or 66 but I will use what I have till money allows me to get what I really want.

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Shot my Bisleys box stock for 3 years. Then felt some with some basic action work done to them.

Then thought "What The Heck Am I doing Shooting These Hard To Cock Things"

Got action job on them.

 

Ya know what??? They are just FUNNER to shoot now. I enjoy them more :rolleyes:

 

For those that say it is just about speed. I say BULL SPIT

 

For alot of us. It just makes them more enjoyable to shoot. THATS IT. Plain and simple.

 

If you enjoy shooting them bone stock. Good for you. I did. BUT. Enjoy the slicked up guns better. More of a pleasure to shoot. :lol:

 

 

+Elevendytwo thousand

 

Some guns shot stock out of the box are more likely to break under the stress we put on them so some relief to the adjust the tool to competition is useful/needed to keep them from breaking, Mine go past that but as my gun smith has told me action jobs are mostly premature aging of the gun. So go too far and you you wind up with a POS you will replace but just enough to enjoy then you have something useful.

 

My thoughts on race guns is that is a complete miss nomer since my eyes, feet and hands are not any faster I just have tools that are eaisier to use.

 

Bull

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Do new cowboy guns "need" to be 'smithed for the cowboy/cowgirl to enjoy CAS shooting? No.... Some would consider my guns to be "race ready" because of the work I've had done on them. I prefer to call it changing my guns to suit my shooting needs and style. I prefer to not have to worry about whether or not my equipment will function at the next stage. Competing within the circle of shooters I see on a weekly basis is hard enough without having to worry about equipment.

 

Now, would I slick up an original Winchester 73 just so I could compete with it? Absolutely not. Why? Becasue it's an historical firearm and should be enjoyed as such. Shoot what you like and so will I and we'll both enjoy the game of CAS.

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My first shoot I borrowed guns. Bought new guns and shot them. I shot SO much better the first time, I had guns slicked up. I have had my Rossi 92 for over 20 years. It's fine unless you try to cycle it very fast. $40.00 in smithing and it's 40 times better. Still ot real fast, but at least I don't have to pry live rounds out! Cash

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I'll never understand why some folks romanticize over factory tolerances...but, to each their own.

 

-Nate

 

 

I'm wih you, Nate. And, like you, I prefer the work of a talented gunsmith. :rolleyes:

 

Cheers,

FJT

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Next the usual suspects will enter this thread and say it is not fair for folks that want to shoot out of the box guns to be required to compete against modified guns. Then the thread will get nasty and eventually closed. It happens over and over and over. No one is requiring you folks to shoot out of the box guns, the rules allow mods and everyone competes within the same set of rules. I have watched many new shooters attempt to shoot out of the box guns and have seen many failures. Our gun manufacturers are selling a lot of junk. Many of these new guns just out of the box will just not function. Shame on the gun manufacturers for selling this junk. If gun manufacturers sold guns that functioned well out of the box, you would see a lot more shooters shooting such guns.

 

I believe all manufacturers put out a product that functions adequately or will make it so if a customer returns it. Given the price of today’s replica pistols, manufacturer can’t afford to put the level of hand fitting into a gun that most competitors do at their own expense. Doing so would price the new guns out of the market. Consequently the factories put heavy springs in their handguns to overcome the roughness of internal parts. Under hard use, i.e. competition, those parts will eventually break and/or the gun will get out of time. Action jobs increase the guns longevity because the springs are light and the moving parts create less friction. That’s not to say that every Italian made pistol is in need of a complete rework – every once in a while I get one with a great trigger or is timed perfectly. Those guns are the exception rather than the rule. Although not all of us consider these replicas junk, someone who competes at the Kids level can’t afford not to have them worked over – they just wouldn’t hold up. It’s a case of you get what you pay for. If someone prefers to shoot a match with a box stock Colt clone rather than one that has been tuned – well – let’s just say I’m not one of them.

 

Semi Conductor

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