Original Henry (recent not really original)

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I'd love to have one with a 12" barrel, short as possible short stroke, really slick action, the lever loop shortened to a single finger sized circular ring, and a pistol grip.

I'd call it my Henry Volcanic Pistol.

[Griff]

10 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I'd love to have one with a 12" barrel, short as possible short stroke, really slick action, the lever loop shortened to a single finger sized circular ring, and a pistol grip.
I'd call it my Henry Volcanic Pistol.

All it takes are a few materials, some not-so-slight skills, a little time & viola!  .40 caliber Volcanic Rifle

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

19 minutes ago, Griff said:

All it takes are a few materials, some not-so-slight skills, a little time & viola!  .40 caliber Volcanic Rifle

The ammo might be a bit difficult to replicate.

 

Phantom

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

11 hours ago, Griff said:

All it takes are a few materials, some not-so-slight skills, a little time & viola!  .40 caliber Volcanic Rifle

Yeah..   I've seen that.  Much more "accurate" than my modified Henry idea, but every time this gun comes up, I find myself thinking it shoulda been in .38 S&W.  Or maybe .41 Short Colt.  Or even .44 Russian

[Hashknife Cowboy]

I am finding that I am growing weaker and needing one of the new Henry 1860's simply because of the cool factor......trying to decide between steel or brass...opinions?

[watab kid]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:20 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Okay...thoughts.

 

Want to be competitive?

 

Yes - then it's not a good rifle

No - then who cares.

 

Phantom

100% agree with phantom here , its all about what experience you are looking for and your expectations [demands of yourself] you can have fun or compete or both depending on how much you practice and how proficient you become , 

 

most of us that shoot this rifle are looking to have the fun of the experience we are not the highly competitive anymore , this rifle does not lend itself to that fast category of shooters , you know yourself better than anyone else , what do you want from this ? 

 

i wanted to shoot this so i bought it but i also once wanted to compete and its why i have all of my others , now i enjoy shooting my 66 just because 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

13 hours ago, watab kid said:

this rifle does not lend itself to that fast category of shooters

 

This has been a common idea on this thread.   Can someone explain why this is so?   It has the same action as the 66 and 73, so I'd assume for the speed is everything crowd it could be short stroked/slicked up in the same way.   What am I missing here?

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

This has been a common idea on this thread.   Can someone explain why this is so?   It has the same action as the 66 and 73, so I'd assume for the speed is everything crowd it could be short stroked/slicked up in the same way.   What am I missing here?

The hop and the lack of any wood out front to grab onto.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Well, if you want to get technical, install a "Smith Shop" Carrier Block for Cowboy 45 Special, add Stick, Mark 1, A1, put a leather wrap on the barrel, Short Stroke and a Henry can run as fast as any other Toggle Link.  Most of the fast crowd just don't want to do that just to be able to run a Henry really fast.  Much much simpler to just run an 1866 or the ubiquitous 1873 with all the trix stuff added.  And yes, it is legal to add a leather wrap to a Henry.

 

However, unless you are annealing your 45 cases, you ARE going to have a Blow-By problem with BP and Subs.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

The hop and the lack of any wood out front to grab onto.

Spacer stick eliminates the need for a hop.  I grab mine right under where the stick will be after the 10th round is fired.

 

56 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

However, unless you are annealing your 45 cases, you ARE going to have a Blow-By problem with BP and Subs.

 

Eh, mine's a .44-40.  No blowback.  Although I do usually shoot smokeless.  

Granted, I am a bottom third shooter, but I don't find the Henry any slower than my 66 or my 73.    

 

[Griff]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:43 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Funny because I think the 66 is nicer looking with the forearm. To each his own?

On 12/17/2023 at 1:23 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So you can only look good with

a Henry? I think the 73 snd 66 are actually nicer looking rifles! IMHO 

Yes, but, the style points just aren't there with the '66 or '73.

 

55 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Granted, I am a bottom third shooter, but I don't find the Henry any slower than my 66 or my 73.    

I'd have to guess that you're a bottom third shooter even with the '66 or '73?  I know I am.  

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Spacer stick eliminates the need for a hop.  I grab mine right under where the stick will be after the 10th round is fired.

 

 

Eh, mine's a .44-40.  No blowback.  Although I do usually shoot smokeless.  

Granted, I am a bottom third shooter, but I don't find the Henry any slower than my 66 or my 73.    

 

That’s not where you need to be holding the rifle. Having the pivot point that far back on the rifle creates a see-saw effect with the muzzle. I like to index on the cap, which the 60 doesn’t have. To a bottom third shooter the fraction of a second you lose probably doesn’t matter, but to a shooter who wants to finish first it does. 
 

Does a ‘60 even come with an 18 inch barrel??

 

I assume reloading over the top is the only option?

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

H.K., I don't remember alluding to a Blow-By problem with 44-40??  My commentary only addressed straight wall .45 cases and centered on Black Powder and Subs.  The .45 does suffer Blow-By with smokeless, however the fouling is much less of a problem.

 

Capt. Burt.  Why YES!!  Uberti does in fact offer the 1860 Henry with an 18 inch barrel.  Stock, the 18 inch Henry will NOT hold 10 44-40 rounds.  Itza nine shooter.  The 18 Inch in 45 also will not hold 10 45 Colt.  It will however, hold 10 45 Schofield with 200Gr bullets.  As I mentioned, .45 Henry rifles, full length or 18 inch carbine, can be equipped with a "Smith Shop" Carrier Block, loaded with C45S cartridges and an even longer filler stick.  With a little ingenuity, a Henry can be quite fast.  it is however, some harder to go fast with a Henry than the '66 or '73.  Ya gotta work at it.

 

Almost forgot.  With a bit of a modified grip, it is possible to get the support hand well out there and NOT be subject to the "Hop."  Takes a little practice though.

 

Capt. Burt.  Did forget (OOPSIES).  In the event of an ejected round, or a "makeup" or a required on the clock reload, you are correct.  "Over The Top" is the only real option.  Trying  thru the front can be some fun to watch though.

[Captain Bill Burt]

7 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

This has been a common idea on this thread.   Can someone explain why this is so?   It has the same action as the 66 and 73, so I'd assume for the speed is everything crowd it could be short stroked/slicked up in the same way.   What am I missing here?

 

6 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

H.K., I don't remember alluding to a Blow-By problem with 44-40??  My commentary only addressed straight wall .45 cases and centered on Black Powder and Subs.  The .45 does suffer Blow-By with smokeless, however the fouling is much less of a problem.

 

Capt. Burt.  Why YES!!  Uberti does in fact offer the 1860 Henry with an 18 inch barrel.  Stock, the 18 inch Henry will NOT hold 10 44-40 rounds.  Itza nine shooter.  The 18 Inch in 45 also will not hold 10 45 Colt.  It will however, hold 10 45 Schofield with 200Gr bullets.  As I mentioned, .45 Henry rifles, full length or 18 inch carbine, can be equipped with a "Smith Shop" Carrier Block, loaded with C45S cartridges and an even longer filler stick.  With a little ingenuity, a Henry can be quite fast.  it is however, some harder to go fast with a Henry than the '66 or '73.  Ya gotta work at it.

 

Almost forgot.  With a bit of a modified grip, it is possible to get the support hand well out there and NOT be subject to the "Hop."  Takes a little practice though.

Here’s your answer. Harder to set up to run fast and harder to learn to run fast with no upside other than subjective looks, and only one reloading option, over the top.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

7 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

so I'd assume for the speed is everything crowd

Who are these folks...I don't know anyone like this...is it the opposite of the Slowness is everything crowd???

 

Anyway, back to the issue...whatever that is. As Cap't Burt said, there is no upside, yet there is a downside...hmmm...

 

So if your goal at a SASS match is to not give a damn about where you finish and you like the looks of the 1860, then buy one a shoot it...have fun. Believe it or not, no one actually cares what other's shoot.

 

Phantom

[watab kid]

8 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

This has been a common idea on this thread.   Can someone explain why this is so?   It has the same action as the 66 and 73, so I'd assume for the speed is everything crowd it could be short stroked/slicked up in the same way.   What am I missing here?

i think the response give you more than i can put into words - i love the rifle and love shooting it but it just doesnt work as well for me as my 66 or 73 , but hey - im all for anyone shooting it that wants to , maybe your results will be different than mine and if so great , 

[Tom Bullweed]

Third option to avoid the follower (first two are the hop and the wooden rod) is to shoot .45 Cowboy Specials.  I shot  Henry for 5-6 years that had been modified to cycle the .45 CS.  The mod is just a set screw in the Lifter.  I am average height but had no issues with getting my hand in front of the follower with ten rounds in the mag tube.

[Rye Miles #13621]

 

16 hours ago, Griff said:

Yes, but, the style points just aren't there with the '66 or '73.

I couldn't disagree more. There's some beautiful 66's and 73's out there. To me there's way more style points for those!

[Captain Bill Burt]

4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. There's some beautiful 66's and 73's out there. To me there's way more style points for those!

I agree.  I've seen some very nice 66's and 73's.  What I haven't seen is very many good looking Marlins.  They're out there, but few and far between.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Style points...

 

Translates to: Not very many people shoot them so when you see one you go...wow...someone's actually using one of them. Guess we should say something nice.

 

 

Phantom

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

48 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Style points...

Yeah, I have looked and looked for these elusive style points - I've yet to see them reflected on a scoresheet.

 

After 25 years of playing this game; I'm starting to think it's just a made up term so folks can excuse their poor equipment choices and lack of measurable results.

[River Jordan, SASS 18742]

I just want one because Gus used one in Lonesome Dove. The first one I saw in real life was Yakima Canutt's at one of our early matches in 1998. He carried his on his pickup gun rack for all the world to see. Pretty cool style.....

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Hey, if you want STYLE points, shoot a Genuine GI Spencer!   I take mine out about once a year.  I get a lot of oohs and aahs, and finish dead last.   But it's funner than anything!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I think the Wire needs a "WackaWacka" emoji...

 

 

Phantom

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

After 25 years of playing this game; I'm starting to think it's just a made up term so folks can excuse their poor equipment choices and lack of measurable results.

Style points are self-evaluated and awarded... it's what allows one to look at the scoresheet and say... "but, I looked good doin' it!"  And labeling someone's equipment choice as "poor", certainly ain't taking into consideration all the myriad reasons folks make their equipment choices.  Sometimes, they're predicated on category choice, as certainly I'll agree my 1851 Navies, although legal,  would be a less than stellar choice if I shot in an age-based category, Classic Cowboy or B-Western, as there are clearly better choices available to one, not to mention the BP issue.  Heck, even in Frontiersman some would argue there are better choices from a purely competitive viewpoint, but... this game isn't entirely about being competitive.  How each of us choose to entertain ourselves is truly no one else's concern as long as we are participating legally, ethically and within the bounds of good sportsmanship.  If one is on the scoresheet, one has "measurable results".  While it may not fit anyone else's standard of performance, there've been times I finished dead last, but more than satisfied knowing that I overcame whatever adversity befell me.  Not quitting is a measurable performance.  There've been times I finished 1st overall and left unsatisfied, knowing that a particular competitor wasn't there to really measure my performance on that day.   (Ok, that's happened infrequently and so long ago that no one here can bear witness to it).   But, the point is no less valid.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

Style points are self-evaluated and awarded...

How each of us choose to entertain ourselves is truly no one else's concern as long as we are participating legally, ethically and within the bounds of good sportsmanship.  If one is on the scoresheet, one has "measurable results".  Not quitting is a measurable performance. 

I have zero issue with how others choose to entertain themselves.

And yes, perhaps "measurable results" was a poor turn of phrase.

 

But, in my opinion, style points are an attempt to claim an achievement without any objective measure - and no, simply showing up to participate is not an accomplishment worthy of note.

 

Stating that equipment choices are not being made to provide for the shooters best performance, but that equipment is being chosen so that when results are questioned; someone can say "but look what I was wearing, look at my accoutrements, look at what I was shooting"

 

That is not noble - it is simply someone expecting poor outcomes and creating pre-emptive excuses.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I’m going to differ, respectfully.
 

I’m glad when people show up, whether they’re competitive or not. Most folks I shoot with at monthlies (major matches are a different situation) are not competitive, at least not with me. I bring my competition with me to every match, me and often Iron Cowboy. The next match I shoot at there will probably be 30 or so shooters. Maybe 10 of those will be in it to win it and 20 will be there to hang out with pards and shoot. 
 

The latter group won’t be competitive for a variety of reasons, gun choices, shooting style choices, age, no interest in practicing, no natural talent, it’s a long list. But many are friends and I really enjoy spending a day in their company. For that reason I’m thankful they spend their time and money to be in the game. It’s worthy of note to me because they could have done something easier, cheaper or both.

I think style points is an expression some people use to communicate part of what motivates them to be on the range. Dressing up like cowboys and playing with their toys.

I look around today and realize about a third of the country hates our guts. They would happily take away our guns, our cars, our liberty, heck even our gas stoves and foods of choice. Some would be happy to see us all dead.

 

We can’t afford to let relatively small differences drive wedges between us. Yeah, we do get a few bad apples. Yeah there can be a few folks on the range that I wouldn’t piss on their head to put out a fire, but by and large we’re all cowboys and I have to believe this game typically attracts good people.

 

It’s too easy to forget that when we’re interacting online. Something about that type of interaction can bring out the worst in us. I definitely have been guilty of that, more than once.

 

Gamers, this weekend if you’re lucky enough to get in some CAS, tell one of the ‘I’m just in it for fun crowd’ that you appreciate them being there. 
 

‘Just for fun’ shooters, pick out a gamer and do the same thing. 
 

We can afford to take a moment and put a smile on someone’s face. Free bonus, you’ll find it makes you smile too.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

When a place will let you use them (They are not actually SASS Legal) you can't get more style points than with these.

 

But unlike in the picture, it's impossible to shoot them gunfighter style.

(Pic from about a year and a half ago, just after I finished Chemo.

[Black Angus McPherson]

6 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

I think style points is an expression some people use to communicate part of what motivates them to be on the range. Dressing up like cowboys and playing with their toys.

 

 

I agree, if looking cool and shooting cool guns is what makes it fun for you then don't worry about who can shoot 24+ rounds in 12 seconds.

Personally, I LOVE the folks with the style points.  After a match I don't usually remember who shot the fastest, but I will remember who wore the cool outfit, or who was shooting the really cool guns.  Even if it's just a pair of neat boots or a "73 Musket.  Or watching a guy shoot an original '60 Army.  I LOVE that stuff.  I may be impressed by the 12 second shooter, but I want to BE the guy shooting the cool guns.  I'm not, but I'd like to be.

 

If you've got the time, money, and skills to be a 12 second shooter, knock yourself out.  I won't be the guy trying to tell you your fun is wrong.

 

Angus

[watab kid]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:48 AM, River Jordan, SASS 18742 said:

I just want one because Gus used one in Lonesome Dove. The first one I saw in real life was Yakima Canutt's at one of our early matches in 1998. He carried his on his pickup gun rack for all the world to see. Pretty cool style.....

 

thats a good enough reason to me , if thats your motivation go for it , 

i seldom shoot mine , for all the reasons listed previously by  others , i like it fine and get the style point thinking but its not my favorite rifle , i have a friend that does , he likes his a lot , we both shoot 45colt in ours and both get blowby - its part of the downloading for SASS and ive gotten used to it 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Just wondering is there awards for style points?? 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Just wondering is there awards for style points?? 

Surely you jest!     Think "costume contest"... or at some bigger matches, "working/shooting costume".  

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Just wondering is there awards for style points?? 

In all seriousness, I have wondered about how this could be done.  Let's think about it for a moment.

If you get "style points" for using a Henry, you should also get them for using a Spencer.  Or perhaps for anything other than a 73, 66, 92 or Marlin.  That is to say, any gun that is more unusual or not so practical for the game?

 

What about pistols?  Anything other than an SAA or a Ruger?  But what if you use a Buntline or a Sheriff's model.  Or one of each?  What if your otherwise standard SAA is gold plated?  That's pretty stylin', no matter how you slice it?  

A hammered double or an 87 has more style points than any other type of shotgun.  But does a hammerless double have more than style points than a 97?  Does a Parker have more style points than generic modern made SxS?  

And that's just guns...

In other words, style points can be a very subjective thing that would be extremely difficult to quantify.   Are the examples of things I mentioned even style pointy to begin with?

I think when all is said and done, if a particular shooter can say, "Hey, isn't my stuff wicked cool today?" then he's got style points, whatever that means. 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

9 hours ago, Griff said:

Surely you jest!     Think "costume contest"... or at some bigger matches, "working/shooting costume".  

Apparently you didn’t see the laughing emoji! Yes of course I jest!

[largo casey #19191]

Style Points?? At the Classic Cowboy Shootout they have the SWAGGER award.

                                                                                                                                              Largo