Thinking About Getting an AR-15

[PowderRiverCowboy]

Well as I build most of my own they are contagious  

 For off the shelf and surprised I saw no one say one of the better one Springfield Armory the Saint is Nice good all around shooter For longer ranges I Have a ATC which in nuts on at 600 yeads Using both off the shelf 55 grain but shine using the MK 262 77 grain  .  Don't get into the adjustable gas systems (99.9 of those that have them don't know how to adjust them ) 
 Do stock up on Ammo . Just a few hours I can go through 1-2 k  for training 1400 today 

You might look into the 300 Blackout round but 55 grain 5.56 is more available and cheaper , but .300 will stop more 

Note you can run .233 in a 5.56chamber but not the other way around  , except if it is .223 Wilde that's a in-between . I prefer chambered for 5.56 as thats what I run most of .

AR10's well Different mags and well I have one in 6.5 creedmore (also the new MRGG ( Mid Range Gas Gun ) sniper rifle ) I can confirm its good out to 1000 yards . and You can do 7.62 but then ammo goes up.

I am Not a Benchrest shooter I run my crap hard , full kit lets move and shoot but at 75 yards moving with a full mag dump in a few seconds .But then again 8 deployments will do that for you. 
 

 This is 600 yards with a LVPO Primary arms 1-10 with 5.56 55 grain vs 77 grain Springfield Armory ATC
 

 

Full mag dump in full kit Springfield Armory Saint 5.56  50-75 yards moving with EO Tech  Red dot 

 

[Pb Mark]

Or think twice before buying an AR.  The first time I put the Burris Fastfire2 on my Marlin 94, I showed it to a pure, super-fast cowboy who you should have shot with before and knew.  The gone from this earth too early "CW".  He was a Marlin 94 purist.  Quick takedown stock bolt so the Marlin fit in the bag on his motorcycle, etc.  The idea sure put a sparkle in his eye... Turns a Marlin 94 into a good cowboy AR for sure.  Just something different to think about.  The AR market is flooded.  Buying used should not be an issue.  This war on guns is laughable.  Lack of primers and powder was not... 

 

Back to watching the football games...

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Loving all this input, thanks pards!

 

I’m gonna pass on a .308 model, as my Garand already provides enough giggles for a high power cartridge in a semi-auto rifle. Plus, the ammo has gotten spendy enough at close to a dollar a round. 
 

Some great info here about build vs buy. If I get one, it’ll be factory built since I’m so new to this. I hadn’t considered the necessity of acquiring the specialty tools. I’m not that committed just yet. 
 

Keep it coming pards, I’m learning a lot!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 hour ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Note you can run 5.56 in a .223 chamber but not the other way around  , except if it is .223 Wilde that's a in-between . I prefer chambered for 5.56 as thats what I run most of .

I thought it was the other way around?

 

https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition

[PowderRiverCowboy]

6 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Loving all this input, thanks pards!

 

I’m gonna pass on a .308 model, as my Garand already provides enough giggles for a high power cartridge in a semi-auto rifle. Plus, the ammo has gotten spendy enough at close to a dollar a round. 
 

Some great info here about build vs buy. If I get one, it’ll be factory built since I’m so new to this. I hadn’t considered the necessity of acquiring the specialty tools. I’m not that committed just yet. 
 

Keep it coming pards, I’m learning a lot!

Truthfully , Some make it harder than it needs to Be . and well I earned my living depending on a AR base rifle. Was Unit weapons NCO and taught classes to other units , All based on what we learned for being deployed .
 
 Here are some thoughts on a few things and I am Not calling anyone out . But what is the main Reason behind getting a AR ?  To overcome violence with overwhelming Violence . Period I wont depend on a cheap firearm . 
  In the AR platform you have basic may Use Mil-spec Tolerances , most use Commercial tolerances and lead to more play and less accurate .

 For a First Time Buyer I recommend a Name Brand in the 800-1000 range , Doing This you dont need any special tools. 
  Reasons why a midrange AR and for that I say 5.56 that allows you to run .223  you wont have to worry about running a certain ammo or not running cheap steel case ammo . 
  There are 2 types of AR's those I would depend on in a fire fight and those  I wont.  In the AR platform you have basic may Use Mil-spec Tolerances , most use Commercial tolerances and lead to more play and less accurate
  Most fire fights will happen in the 40-75 yard range so a good Red Dot I prefer Eo Tech for more than the Basic Red Dot .   Keep in mind the basic AR 5.56 round wont see past 3-400 yards MAX no need for a high Dollar scope on a AR unless its Built for that .

 I dont recommend a .22lr conversion  , for 2 reasons

 1) and goes into the the 5 P's if you need your AR and gee you left in the 22 kit and have 5.56 mags you are done . 

 2) a HK 416 22LR runs appx 450 and you dont have the Dirty crappy  22 round to deal with in your AR as the gas system is tailored for the 22lr.
A conversion kit runs 230 ish 


 

[PowderRiverCowboy]

23 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I thought it was the other way around?

 

https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition

Opps, I know that just typed it backwards  Sorry for the confusion

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

14 minutes ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

 Please read that again ;
The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. This is NOT safe and will cause primers to back out, or worse, cause harm to the operator, the rifle, or both

I understand. Your post seems to read the opposite?

 

Note you can run 5.56 in a .223 chamber but not the other way around  , except if it is .223 Wilde that's a in-between . 
 

EDIT:  your second post is in line with my understanding of the Hornady link. Thank you!

[Dantankerous]

2 hours ago, Pb Mark said:

...I showed it to a pure, super-fast cowboy who you should have shot with before and knew.  The gone from this earth too early "CW".  He was a Marlin 94 purist.

 

Amen. Walt was the best. A true gentleman and cowboy. Gone way too early.

 

And he could flat run a Marlin.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

What’s the difference between these two? I don’t understand B5 furniture.  Is that a cosmetic or functional feature?

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/250882

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/183931

[sassnetguy50]

19 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I understand. Your post seems to read the opposite?

 

Note you can run 5.56 in a .223 chamber but not the other way around  , except if it is .223 Wilde that's a in-between . 
 

EDIT:  your second post is in line with my understanding of the Hornady link. Thank you!

No.. Do not use 5.56 NATO ammo in a .223 Rem rifle.  Only use .223 Rem ammo in a .223 Rem rifle.

You can use either round in a 5.56 NATO rifle.

You can use either round in a .223 Wylde rifle.  This Wylde chamber is supposed to give a little more accuracy with .223 Rem rounds than the 5.56 NATO chamber does.

[sassnetguy50]

@Abilene Slim SASS 81783

Does the rifle have to be new?  If you like the classic military Colt rifles and will be shooting targets, why not a Colt Hbar Competition Target?  It has a 20" heavy barrel, a little better trigger, fixed stock, good accuracy.  My sample size is one, it shot 3/4" 3-shot groups at 100yd with the factory ammo supplied by the owner.  The 20" barrel makes it an 8.5# rifle with carry handle, a little less bark and spark than the 16" guns.  I think the later production guns had a removable carry handle for scope use.  Prices were $700-1,000 here for clean, low round count rifles.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

24 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What’s the difference between these two? I don’t understand B5 furniture.  Is that a cosmetic or functional feature?

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/250882

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/183931

 

 

 Yes B5 is a company that makes buttstocks and grips .  And with the ones I’ve had nice grip on for the grips and the butt stocks are good and tight with no wobble.

[Pat Riot]

If you can find a rifle with .223 Wylde chamber you can shoot either .556  or .223 with no worries. 
 

£¥€#ing Otto Communista 

[Pb Mark]

One last comment the guest got to before this one:

 

5.56 NATO is a higher-pressure round than many 223 Winchester rounds.  Especially some of the latest heavy bullet stuff that AR's really are not enjoying.

There is a bit of neck differences in the dimensions also, if you check the SAMMI cartridge dimensions. Possibly brass thickness difference too, but would need to look that one up to be sure.

223 Wylde is a SAMMI chamber dimension that will work with both.

 

The opposite is true for 308 Winchester vs 7.62 NATO.  Some 308 Winchester rounds are definitely higher pressure than NATO spec 7.62.  308 factory ammo is actually beginning to get pretty wild with the proprietary powders and ballistics getting difficult to match by the home reloader.

 

All modern gun manufacturers know these facts well.  You really should never see a 22 caliber AR marked 223 Winchester.  Just like the 7.62 platforms.  They will be labeled 308 Winchester.  Some manufactures will denote both calibers on their barrels to help not confuse the buyer.  Many, way too many, people buy nice firearms and never read the instructions...

 

Speaking of not reading the instructions.... was just yesterday working with a church group, all basically unknowns to me and some very new gun owners.  One gentleman left the event with a brand new jammed up Keltec KSG.  Put it in the box and went home.  They all went home per schedule, and I was left with the event sponsor needing help pushing a Polaris onto a trailer...  Gave me my first hemroid pushing that thing... It was a sleepless night waiting for a reply from the event sponsor that the KSG owner was contacted, worried he left with a round of 12 gauge in the chamber... he did not read the instructions for his new KSG was obvious.  This getting old stuff sometimes sucks.  Not reading the instructions for any new unfamiliar firearm can suck much more!

 

[ORNERY OAF]

32 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What’s the difference between these two? I don’t understand B5 furniture.  Is that a cosmetic or functional feature?

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/250882

 

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/183931

One is bravo company, one is B5, both are very good, comes down ton personal preference,  both are fully functional,  ford or chevy

[One Gun Jimmy]

4 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I understand. Your post seems to read the opposite?

 

Note you can run 5.56 in a .223 chamber but not the other way around  , except if it is .223 Wilde that's a in-between . 
 

EDIT:  your second post is in line with my understanding of the Hornady link. Thank you!

There I a bit of confusion ,or my reading comprehension is bad but I just wanna put this out there in case.

 

The two biggest military to civilian variable is 5.56 vs .223 and 7.62x51(nato) vs .308.

 

You CAN fire .223 in a 5.56 gun

 

You CAN fire 7.62nato in a .308

 

You can NOT fire 5.56 in a .223

 

You can NOT fire .308 in a 7.62nato gun

 

Period.

 

Fire either in a .223 wylde without worry.

 

 

Now, when it comes to black guns, I only buy guns that I would grab in a SHTF situation and know it's gonna work for as long as it needs to.

 

There are two ways to get this garenteed or as close as you can wirhout a solid know how in building, IMHO.

 

1. buy from a shop with a long track record of bombproof stuff.

 

2. build the lower with high end milspec+ parts and buy an upper from a long track record.

 

I have done both.

 

My #1 pick after 1000 and 1000s of rounds is Daniel Defence for uppers and complete guns.

 

I have an MK12 that is a full DD out of the box gun that rings steel all day at 300+ and feels like a tank.

 

I have an MK18 upper on a Aero Presicion lower that saved me 3 or 4 hundred dollars over buying it out right from DD.

 

The MK12 is an 18" cold hammer forged barrel Ris II quad rail (strongest rail in existence) with Gieslie trigger and it is a dream strait out of the box.

 

My MK18 is a 10.3" cold hammer forged barrel Ris II quad rail.

I put it on an Aero precision lower with a Gieslie trigger, Bravo Company Mil spec lower parts kit and a Magpul bad lever.

 

If you want a more standard military length the DDm4 is all the same with a pin and welded 14" barrel to be 16" legal.

 

I have never had a failure out of either and my MK18 has seen more rounds then most and its been "cleaned"...will say...rarely. 

 

Buddy of mine has a S&W and it runs fine but there is a difference you can feel when you pick it up....but I've never seen it take a poo...but have heard of long term issues if you use and abuse it.

 

Palmetto State is probably the "cheap" option I would take if I was to have to pick.

 

There are also some seriously big competitors to the AR platform.

 

My next 5.56 gun will be a Robinson Armament XCR. This is the gun that should have beat the SCAR.

AK piston reliability in a modern AR style platform And just yummy looking.

 

Also, if you wanna Kamala proof your collection don't forget to pick up a IWI Galil in 5.56 or a man's gun in 7.62X39.

 

And unless its your gun shop, and especially if it's a big name store... look out for EVERYTHING they say.

 

[Pat Riot]

43 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Also, if you wanna Kamala proof your collection don't forget to pick up a IWI Galil in 5.56 or a man's gun in 7.62X39.

“A man’s gun in 7.62x39”?  
 

 

[J-BAR #18287]

I have won 2 AR15s in club raffles.  Sold/traded both without firing them.  So I am posting from ignorance.

 

Cherokee Firearms here in Springfield assembles their own ARs.  You can visit, test fire, and decide if you want one, and Sheri and I will feed you and Patti, home cooked or otherwise, depending.  You can use our guest room if you like.  Gunshow October 14-15.

 

Let me know.

 

edit:  Sheri out of town that weekend, so we would be eating my cooking, or restaurants.  Sorry about that.

 

[One Gun Jimmy]

8 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

“A man’s gun in 7.62x39”?  
 

 

Figured that get a rise lol.

 

I've always been an AK guy but in 'Merica the 5.56 is way more likely to be...um...found in case ammo becomes a pick it up where the last guy dropped it kind of camodity.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 minute ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I have won 2 AR15s in club raffles.  Sold/traded both without firing them.  So I am posting from ignorance.

 

Cherokee Firearms here in Springfield assembles their own ARs.  You can visit, test fire, and decide if you want one, and Sheri and I will feed you and Patti, home cooked or otherwise, depending.  You can use our guest room if you like.  Gunshow October 14-15.

 

Let me know.

Will take a rain check as Patty is recovering for 8 weeks from foot surgery. I get to be chauffeur, grocery shopper and occasional man servant. Thanks for the offer!

 

Gonna go to the local long range Wednesday and shoot a pard’s 5.56 Sig. I’m definitely gonna try some of these before buying to see if I really like them. Safe queens are forbidden in our house. 

[Pat Riot]

4 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Figured that get a rise lol.

 

I've always been an AK guy but in 'Merica the 5.56 is way more likely to be...um...found in case ammo becomes a pick it up where the last guy dropped it kind of camodity.

I get ya. I was just bustin your chops. Personally, I like .308 / 7.62x51. It’s sure not as cheap as it used to be. 

[One Gun Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

I get ya. I was just bustin your chops. Personally, I like .308 / 7.62x51. It’s sure not as cheap as it used to be. 

Buddy you ain't a kiddn!

 

There is a really sweet SOCOM 16 M1A for sale in the classifieds right now that I'm drooling for, but a rang day with my .308 bolt gun is a wallet smasher...a semi auto ain't gonna make it cheaper.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

19 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Buddy you ain't a kiddn!

 

There is a really sweet SOCOM 16 M1A for sale in the classifieds right now that I'm drooling for, but a rang day with my .308 bolt gun is a wallet smasher...a semi auto ain't gonna make it cheaper.

Yup, my M1 Garand shooting has gotten more expensive, but Garand-friendly .30-06 ammo wasn’t cheap to begin with. Still, it’s only gone up 15 cents a round from a few years ago, but it is harder to find. 
 

Plus, just a few clips scratches my itch. After that, I start to feel a little beat up, so I stop while I’m ahead. (4 reconstructive shoulder surgeries through the years take a toll.) That’s why I’m not considering anything in .308. 
 

 

[Pat Riot]

2 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Plus, just a few clips scratches my itch. After that, I start to feel a little beat up, so I stop while I’m ahead. (4 reconstructive shoulder surgeries through the years take a toll.) That’s why I’m not considering anything in .308. 

I definitely don’t blame you for that. You gotta be careful so your body can last longer. 

I can handle .308 from my Garand and SFAR. In a bolt gun, not so much. I also don’t shoot heavy magnum revolvers or pistol gripped shotguns any more. Too much damage over the years from bike crashes and everything else I have done to myself. Haha

[One Gun Jimmy]

49 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Yup, my M1 Garand shooting has gotten more expensive, but Garand-friendly .30-06 ammo wasn’t cheap to begin with. Still, it’s only gone up 15 cents a round from a few years ago, but it is harder to find. 
 

Plus, just a few clips scratches my itch. After that, I start to feel a little beat up, so I stop while I’m ahead. (4 reconstructive shoulder surgeries through the years take a toll.) That’s why I’m not considering anything in .308. 
 

 

Tell ya, you aint missing anything AR related in a .308.

 

Buddy has a Daniel Defence AR-10 in .308 and tells me everytime we shoot that I need one.....great rifle, accurate, runs flawless....all while kicking the absolute Sh*t out of you!!

It's WAY to light and the stock has very little give and it's just a shoulder rearrangement tool.

 

I started shooting trap with an over under and shoot about 200-250 rounds a week of 12Ga.....30-40 rounds out of that AR-10 leaves twice the mark as the 200+shotgun.

 

Also while I'm in here, read your questions again and wanted to say. 

 

The DD rifles run between $1700 and $2100 dollars for a full gun and like $900- $1400 for full uppers, but you can find some great rebates at times on them or free accessories, I got my MK18 upper with 12 FREE magazines....thats at least $150.

[ORNERY OAF]

Last thing for me

Noveske LWRC,Knights, Bravo Co,Daniel Def,Wilson Combat, LMT, Aero...

 

Buy once,cry once.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

11 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I get ya. I was just bustin your chops. Personally, I like .308 / 7.62x51. It’s sure not as cheap as it used to be. 

Sitting here laughing at the .308 price while I clean my .458 SOCOM  Taking that one out next trip out . That will make a few look around when they hear that put rounds downrange .

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

BUY 2 , so it will not get lonely 

 

  CB 

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

13 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

It's WAY to light and the stock has very little give and it's just a shoulder rearrangement tool.

I had a AR10 .308 with a good muzzle brake, that kicked less that my 5.56 carbine. Got rid of all my FAL's, they kicked too hard.

[sassnetguy50]

15 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

I had a AR10 .308 with a good muzzle brake, that kicked less that my 5.56 carbine. Got rid of all my FAL's, they kicked too hard.

Which brake did you use?

[John Kloehr]

Sale at PSA, rifle kit for $289.99. Will need to add sights and magazines:

 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-rifle-kit-5076171.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20230925&utm_term=morning&utm_content=

 

Also need a blem stripped lower (credit to  @sassnetguy50 for noticing), $29.99 plus your FFL:

 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar-15-lower-safe-fire.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20230925&utm_term=morning&utm_content=

 

On edit: This is a daily deal, so just today

[sassnetguy50]

38 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Sale at PSA, rifle kit for $289.99. Will need to add sights and magazines:

 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-rifle-kit-5076171.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20230925&utm_term=morning&utm_content=

 

On edit: This is a daily deal, so just today

Will also need a stripped lower.

[Pat Riot]

5 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Sitting here laughing at the .308 price while I clean my .458 SOCOM  Taking that one out next trip out . That will make a few look around when they hear that put rounds downrange .

Yeah, no kidding. It looks like bulk 458 SOCOM is 70% and more higher than bulk .308. Specialty rounds are twice the price of .308 in some cases. 
 

I was in a gun store this morning just scanning ammo and prices. .300 Win Mag is stupid high. Glad I don’t have one of those. At least was on the shelf. I haven’t seen 45-70 in a store for a long time. Glad I reload. 

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

1 hour ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Which brake did you use?

I think it was a Fortis RED.

https://fortismfg.com/ar10-fortis-762-red-brake-blk

[John Kloehr]

35 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Will also need a stripped lower.

Good catch, added it to my original post above. Thank you for picking up on my oversight!