California is at it again

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

"Senate Bill 553 (SB 553) by State Senator Dave Cortese (D) aims to prohibit the direct confrontation of shoplifters by store owners and employees. Cortese says he is concerned about recent incidents that have led to shoplifters getting hurt or killed and suggests we rely on law enforcement agencies to handle such incidents instead." 

 

It is interesting that in California they are worried about criminals being injured but care nothing about the victims of crime.  Whatever starts in California seems to spread to other states.  God help us.

[Texas Joker]

Eventually stupid is lethal

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Can't put all the blame on politicians, some needs to go to the voters that vote these people in every election. Some of those politicians or their family or friends may have been injured while ransacking stores and homes and want to give them a better chance at their trade since these aren't covered by workman compensation.

[JD Lud]

I thought this was going to be about the new ammunition and firearms tax increase in Cali.  The cartel is taking another 10% I have read…

[Yul Lose]

Law enforcement won’t respond to shoplifting calls. I’ve caught numerous shoplifters and store management says they can’t do anything because shoplifting is not a crime. Rite Aid has closed numerous stores and is filing for chapter 11 protection. They built a new store in Escondido a few years ago right down the street from the homeless help center and theft was so bad they closed it down about 4 years later, it’s a Goodwill thrift store now, nobody wants to steal their stuff. The day is coming where you’ll walk into the store to a counter and you’ll tell them what you want, it’ll get pulled and before you even touch it you’ll have to pay for it.

 

Most hardware stores have their tools and accessories like batteries, chargers, bits etc.. under lock and key. Our local family owned hardware store has more and more of their wares locked in display cabinets and in order to buy the items you have to go find a clerk to unlock the cabinet and show them what you want to buy and they take it to the register and ring it up. I’ve known the people that own the store for 30 plus years or so and they’ve told me that they’ve never seen theft and shoplifting so bad and that’s out here in a fairly remote area. One 2 store chain of a higher end grocery store in Escondido has a bulletin board that has pictures of the known shoplifters on display.

 

I caught a woman shoplifting vodka and tequila twice at that store and the second time she was loading bottles of liquor into a trench coat like coat with pockets sewn inside to hold the liquor bottles. Not long ago I was back at the seafood counter buying some fish and watched a man putting bottles of wine and wine coolers into a backpack. I pointed him out to the seafood manager and he said he’s in here a couple of times a week and they can’t do anything to him. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Any of you bother to read it?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB553&fbclid=IwAR2epQHMJdv2rAdo86yGY44eVe-sxTt6R-mxF05C5y8coglPpLJ4v1R6pbs

 

A quick reading and I see nothing about making it illegal to confront shoplifters. I know that there is/was a bill that would make it illegal for an employer to REQUIRE employees who were not trained in security from confronting thieves, but that isn't the same as making it illegal to confront them.

 

This seems to be mostly about a company being able to get restraining orders against people who have made threats or committed violence against employees.

The documentation required seems like what any insurance company would require, and even what any reasonable employer would do.

 

In fact, ALL language about prohibiting untrained employees from confronting shoplifters was dropped. https://www.newsweek.com/california-bill-employees-confronting-shoplifters-key-vote-1824941

 

Seems to be another knee-jerk conservative version of the "Don't say gay" line of male bovine excrement from the left.  Someone took and edited the comments on the bill by the author to make him say something he never said... the only thing I found even close was him expressing concern for the lives of the employees.

ADDED:

But, by all means, let's make sure that an employer can REQUIRE unarmed employees with zero training in self-defense confront ARMED thugs .

[bgavin]

My neighbors worked for Safeway.  They had to sign binding agreements to neither confront nor attempt to stop shop lifters under penalty of termination and loss of pension.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 minute ago, bgavin said:

My neighbors worked for Safeway.  They had to sign binding agreements to neither confront nor attempt to stop shop lifters under penalty of termination and loss of pension.

 

Insurance and protection from lawsuits from both sides.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Joe, I was reading from Representaitve Cortese's website.  If you want to defend the nitwits in Sacramento so be it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

46 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Any of you bother to read it?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB553&fbclid=IwAR2epQHMJdv2rAdo86yGY44eVe-sxTt6R-mxF05C5y8coglPpLJ4v1R6pbs

 

A quick reading and I see nothing about making it illegal to confront shoplifters. I know that there is/was a bill that would make it illegal for an employer to REQUIRE employees who were not trained in security from confronting thieves, but that isn't the same as making it illegal to confront them.

 

This seems to be mostly about a company being able to get restraining orders against people who have made threats or committed violence against employees.

The documentation required seems like what any insurance company would require, and even what any reasonable employer would do.

 

In fact, ALL language about prohibiting untrained employees from confronting shoplifters was dropped. https://www.newsweek.com/california-bill-employees-confronting-shoplifters-key-vote-1824941

 

Seems to be another knee-jerk conservative version of the "Don't say gay" line of male bovine excrement from the left.  Someone took and edited the comments on the bill by the author to make him say something he never said... the only thing I found even close was him expressing concern for the lives of the employees.

ADDED:

But, by all means, let's make sure that an employer can REQUIRE unarmed employees with zero training in self-defense confront ARMED thugs .

That’s the first thing I do whenever I see internet outrage over a pending legislative action, no matter the subject. I frequently find out the outrage is unwarranted and either a misunderstanding or intentional rabble rousing.

[Subdeacon Joe]

9 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

That’s the first thing I do whenever I see internet outrage over a pending legislative action, no matter the subject. I frequently find out the outrage is unwarranted and either a misunderstanding or intentional rabble rousing.

 

Thanks.  As much as I hate to go to bat for the capons in Sacramento I find myself doing it more and more often because of stuff like this.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Joe, I was reading from Representaitve Cortese's website.  If you want to defend the nitwits in Sacramento so be it.

 

A link to the site would be nice.  That "quote" reads like a commentary about something on his site.   

 

But thanks for confirming that you didn't read the legislation.

 

 

ADDED: 

Nothing on HIS official website says what the OP claims he said.  I've not found a legitimate news article that quotes him as saying it.   The closest thing I've found is that to prevent EMPLOYEES from being injured or killed he wrote into the legislation wording to prohibit employers from requiring untrained employees to confront shoplifters, they were to leave it to the trained loss prevention and security people.  A far cry from prohibiting any attempts to stop them.  It didn't even prohibit the untrained employees from using their initiative and trying to stop thieves.

 

The only thing I'm defending is the truth.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Kalifornia is the most F^@×*d up Country there ever was and it bleeds over to America !

[John Kloehr]

Some years back, I worked for a major big-box retail company. As a rank and file employee, my training did include not confronting shoplifters.

 

What I was to do was provide excellent customer service. Just walk up and ask if I could help them find anything. This is often enough to stop further shoplifting.

 

I also learned over time that LP (Loss Prevention) was another paid position within the store, that the store would often document shoplifting without actually taking further action at the time, that LP did maintain records until total thefts reached the threshold to not be a petty theft but rose to the degree of significant criminal acts.

 

And while there may be some threshold where the crime is not worth prosecuting, multiple small thefts reaching the threshold were considered the same as one single theft of the sufficient amount.

 

And the thieves were profiled so LEO would often be available for a coordinated action and arrest when the thief showed up as expected from previous thefts. Then they were arrested, charged, and prosecuted.

 

I'n leaving out the name of the company on purpose, but will state this was in San Jose, California. But for me to confront a shoplifter was a firing offense, as was being armed on company time. And I think this is typical of most corporate retail companies. Just because it looks like they do nothing, they actually do focus on the bigger players and ignore the small stuff until it gets to be big enough to make a charge stick.

[watab kid]

shoplifting is a crime - it should be prosecuted and there should be protection for those in the store from the thieves be they customers or employees , dead ones dont steal again , but then im too black and white when it comes to blatant crime , 

 

some poor starving kid stealing an apple i can see - some overweight gal or guy kyping a big screen TV is another 

 

kiss my red neck A$$ it is a crime 

[Dantankerous]

 If shoplifting cannot be punishable as a criminal action and/or is not actionable under company policy how can retail stores expect anyone to eventually pay for anything nor why should they?  This is the question I would like to hear these weirdo politicians who support this and these woke feel-good pansy corporate types answer.

[JD Lud]

I think if I watched people do that all time, at some point I would give in and just out of anger take something and hope that if everyone did if, they might change it…

 

they should organize a “free day” where even the law abiding steal just to show them what’s coming at some point.  

[Texas Joker]

Yea like a 24 hour period once a year where there are no laws. What could go wrong....

 

[Texas Maverick]

Back in my law enforcement days in Oklahoma there was a situation at one of our department stores where an employee confronted a shoplifter and ended up in an altercation between the two. The suspect was hurt by the employee during the scuffle. The end result was that the employee and store were considered at fault by the court because the suspect had not left the store with the item. The court said until the suspect walked out of the store with the item without paying it was not considered shoplifting. So the suspect received compensation for his injuries from the store. It made the news and it caused a lot of changes to the way the stores handled shoplifters from then on. They all had to wait until the person actually left the store before confronting them. There were some articles written where people would put things in their pockets or purses and just walk around the store hoping someone would accost them so they could get some money from the store. It was considered by the court that you could carry whatever item you took anywhere on your person because you could then end up taking said item out at the cash register and pay for it. So knowing the laws in your area is critical on when it is actually considered shoplifting before taking any action.

 

TM

[Dantankerous]

Back in '90 and '91 my roommate was a loss prevention officer at K Mart. He had so many stories... Most of them involved him running people down in the parking lot and the scuffle was on. He got punched and kicked so many times he lost track but it's not like he didn't give it back once in a while and never got in trouble for it. 

 

Of course that's back before cell phones and Karens and pansyass woke "the criminals are always right" leftist mentality...

 

He told me if he tackled a dude the dude usually put up almost no fight or just quit if the guy didn't flat out out run him and my roommate was lightning fast. The ones that always wanted to fight were the women and they were vicious  And of course they were never the petite types either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[watab kid]

14 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 If shoplifting cannot be punishable as a criminal action and/or is not actionable under company policy how can retail stores expect anyone to eventually pay for anything nor why should they?  This is the question I would like to hear these weirdo politicians who support this and these woke feel-good pansy corporate types answer.

maybe we all dont pay - they just provide what we want to our door after all its a major PITA to have to go to the store to shoplift , ill send my order in by text or email have it to my door by evening please 

[John Kloehr]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:45 AM, Texas Maverick said:

... There were some articles written where people would put things in their pockets or purses and just walk around the store hoping someone would accost them so they could get some money from the store.

I did that once, not for money, but because I "got made.". Same store I worked at, but some months after I quit. So I knew this LP person on sight.

 

And there she was peering at me through the racks from the next aisle...

 

So I set down my carry basket and put the 98 cent pack of screws in my shirt pocket. Then some similarly priced washers and I was off to plumbing.  She followed me. Once in plumbing, I found that less than $5 faucet washer set; it went in my other shirt pocket. I tried the same pocket as the screws and washers, but it bulged a bit too much, it was not comfortable. Then over to appliances... Yes, she followed me. And along the way, I ran into one of the store managers. I stopped to greet him, exchanged some small talk and caught up with him. His family was doing fine, as was mine. We parted ways.  LP was still hanging close pretending to be interested in some store display. That 11" long $20 water filter cartridge fit just fine in the small of my back secured in my belt under my shirt.

 

To be clear, none of this was surreptitious. I was absolutely blatant and obvious about my actions. I acted like an honest person doing nothing wrong; I was an honest person doing nothing wrong. This is a pet-friendly store and my leashed dog occupied my hands hence pockets and such, and it was easier than using the carry basket I left in the hardware department.

 

Then off to self check; when I worked there and bought stuff off-the-clock (shopping on the clock was a firing offense), I always had a checker ring up my purchases because self-check is inherently suspicious. And of course she followed me. She was almost leaving a visible trail of dripping anticipation at this point. And then I rung up every item, and obviously dug through all my pockets and patted myself down just to make sure I did not screw myself, paid, put the receipt in the bag, tied the bag shut, then went directly over to her (peering at me from concealment away from the exit) and said "Hello, how is the job going? I noticed you back in hardware."

 

Don't try any of this unless you are sure you absolutely know the rules and can rely on well-trained store staff to follow them. I also briefed her on how and why I noticed her surveillance and where to be next time she thinks she found a suspect in hardware.

 

The rest of the story...

 

When I was an employee at the same store, there was a time I was ready to leave. I clocked out, got my jacket off of the open rack in the break room, got my lunchbox off of the counter, and headed for the exit. When I went through the LP sensors, they went off.

 

Beep Beep Beep...

 

So I stop, and turn around And fortunately the store manager was right there (!?). He has a certain smile... And calls me over to him with his index finger. So I go up to him, hand him my lunch box. He moves to open it and I stop him. I inform him the lunch box was last touched by me at the end of meal break and has been sitting unsecured in the break room since then. Let's try the sensor again.

 

Beep Beep Beep..

 

I walk back to him taking off my jacket, hand it to him, and inform him my jacket has been unsecured in the break room since the start of my shift. Let's try the sensor again.

 

Beep Beep Beep.

 

Hmm, I turn to him and he has that crooked index finger calling me over again. "No," I say, "let's figure this out here."

 

I went up to the sensor line. I stuck my left arm through the space. Nothing, so I pull it out. I stuck my right arm through the space, nothing, so I pull it out. I stuck my right leg into the space.

 

Beep Beep Beep!

 

I look at the bottom of my shoe and find one of those RFID tags stuck to my sole between the lugs. Pull it off and stick it into the space.

 

Beep Beep Beep.

 

Just for grins and thoroughness, I test my leg again, and the other leg. Nothing.

 

I take tag over and hand it to the store manager, retrieve my jacket and lunch box from him, and say "let's start over."

 

The silence almost echoed as I exited the store. He still got a friendly wave. The employees are not trusted.

[watab kid]

as fiona would say "can we shoot them ?" , my answer is yes ...........do it out of sight of the cameras please