Bart Slade Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Need help from anyone that may know; Doing some random reading and came across the below about a event in 1923 that led to the "Posey War" with the Utes. Does anyone know what is meant by "the gun spiked, and would not fire" in the description below? I know of "spiked guns" in the Civil War sense where they would intentionally make cannons inoperable by jamming stuff in the barrel, but this appears to be a different meaning of "spiked" (particularly since the Indian who took the gun was able to make it operable). I assume "spiked" is being used as a vague term synonymous with "jammed" - but does anyone know if it's a specific thing? the quote: Joe Bishop's boy was walking upon a large stick as though he were crippled or incapacitated. ... After hearing evidence presented for and against the accused, Joe Bishop's boy was found guilty and at 12:00 noon he was placed in the hands of Sheriff Oliver, to have lunch. He was to reappear at 3:00 p.m. for sentencing. Immediately upon the adjournment of court, all the white men left and went home for lunch, leaving no one there but the sheriff, George A. Hurst Jr., a few school children, and a band of angry Utes. ... After quite a while trying to persuade the Indian boy to go without any avail, Sheriff Oliver got on his horse, rode up to Joe Bishop's boy ... and insisted that he come along without any further trouble and get their lunch. Whereupon, the young Ute threw away the big stick that he had been walking on, grabbed the reins of the horse the sheriff was riding, and jerking with all his might. At this point, Sheriff Oliver whipped out his gun and attempted to shoot the Indian, but the gun spiked, and would not fire. Joe Bishop's boy grabbed the horn of the saddle with one hand, the other seizing the gun that Oliver held. He wrenched the gun from the sheriff's hand and with one leap, sprang into the saddle of Jess Posey's [Chief Posey's son] race horse with Jess, stood holding and headed north. As he started off he tried to get the gun to work. He had only gone about 200 yards when he succeeded and over his shoulder he shot the sheriff's horse in the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Who knows at one time gay meant happy!! I would imagine "spiked" was a term used back then although I never heard of it! Spiked has always meant adding alcohol or drugs to a punch bowl or non alcoholic drink as long as I've been alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Spiking a cannon, as I know the term, referred to actually driving a nail (a spike) into the touch hole, and then breaking it off, so that you could not get fire to the powder charge. Since cannon are no longer fired by having a fuse or a hot wire pushed through the touch hole into the powder charge, the term spiking refers to making the cannon unable to be fired. But trying to shoot your pistol and "the gun spiked"?? I got no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Slade Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Alpo said: But trying to shoot your pistol and "the gun spiked"?? I got no idea. I haven't even made my mind up that it was a pistol yet. "Sheriff Oliver whipped out his gun..." sure makes it sound like a pistol. However, at the end the Indian shoots the Sheriff's horse in the neck at 200 yards - that sounds like a rifle to me. Or one hell of an impressive (or lucky) shot. Possible the Sheriff has a repeater that didn't feed correctly (we've all been there a time or two I reckon!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 34 minutes ago, Bart Slade said: However, at the end the Indian shoots the Sheriff's horse in the neck at 200 yards - that sounds like a rifle to me. The way I read that passage, the sheriff tried to shoot the Indian, and his gun refused to work. The Indian grabBED the sheriff's saddlehorn and snatched his gun from his hand. Then the Indian jumped into the saddle of another horse and away he went. The sheriff was still mounted. The Indian got the gun to working after he had ridden 200 yards. I saw nothing saying the sheriff sat there watching him ride away. The sheriff may have started after him immediately after he rode OFF, and even though the Indian had ridden 200 yards from where the altercation started, the sheriff might have only been 30 or 40 feet behind him when he turned around and shot the horse. That actually makes a little more sense. If the sheriff was still standing 200 yards away, I would have stopped my horse, taken careful aim and most likely shot the sheriff. But if I turned around and shot over my shoulder and hit the sheriff's horse, that's kind of sounds to me like the sheriff was in hot pursuit, and the Indian did not have time to stop and take care ofCAREFUL aim, because if he did the sheriff would have caught him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Slade Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Alpo said: I saw nothing saying the sheriff sat there watching him ride away. The sheriff may have started after him immediately after he rode OFF, and even though the Indian had ridden 200 yards from where the altercation started, the sheriff might have only been 30 or 40 feet behind him when he turned around and shot the horse. Excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.K. Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Possibly Locked up or jammed due to a percussion cap backing off the nipple due to hard fall or impact? Especially if he was able to get it working again shortly after. That would be my guess, Pards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 As Alpo says, spiking cannon involved driving a nail or equivalent into the touch hole, rendering the weapon inoperable without a painstaking drilling operation, usually impossible in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Never heard of spiked referring to anything but a cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo casey #19191 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 In a 66 0r 73 to long of a cartridge would lock it up. Largo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I'm gonna say.....misprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Never heard of spiked referring to anything but a cannon. Never went to any frat parties when you were in school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I am going to say a LEO in 1923 is not going to have a percussion revolver. At that point the 1911 was all the rage. I am also going to say whomever wrote it didn't understand guns and wrote the event wrong. You know how writers are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 13 minutes ago, Cholla said: I am going to say a LEO in 1923 is not going to have a percussion revolver. At that point the 1911 was all the rage. I am also going to say whomever wrote it didn't understand guns and wrote the event wrong. You know how writers are! ..... yeah, ... "never let facts get in the way of a good story" ..... .... oh wait, ...... that's news reporter/writers ... ........... maybe the author had a second job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Spiking a gun is pretty simple. There were even special spikes for the job, but not always in the limber chest. The tips were flattened some so they could curl when they hit the far side of the bore. Hammer it in, run the rammer in to bend it, then knock the head off to make it almost impossible to pull out. You could use a punch to drive it all the way into the bore, then try to blow it out by loading it loose power and firing the gun. Or try to drill it out. Or, since the vent was drilled in a copper plug, have your battery forge pull it out and replace it. Less than half a day and the gun could be back in action. As for the story, I've read things like, "Well, that spiked our plans," to indicate something that something won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Then there's spiking a news story. Remember those office spikes you spiked messages and memos on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 39 minutes ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said: ..... yeah, ... "never let facts get in the way of a good story" ..... .... oh wait, ...... that's news reporter/writers ... ........... maybe the author had a second job Trust me, writers need have real income from some other source because writing doesn't pay the bill these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said: Then there's spiking a news story. Remember those office spikes you spiked messages and memos on? I am pretty sure John Wick killed somebody with one. If it hasn't happened yet, I'm sure it will be in John Wick 4, John Wick 5, and maybe even in John Wick 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Well, looking up “spiked guns” on today’s search engines results in lots of articles and blogs by hand-wringing bedwetting Nancy boys lamenting the spikes in gun sales…a darn good thing, if you asked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Stove piped the round when pulling back the slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Slade Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 20 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: Stove piped the round when pulling back the slide? Because of the context I was reading the story in (Indian Wars) I had not "done the math" and realized the strong possibility the gun was a Colt 1911. But you're right, it could definitely have been that. I'm not sure that by 1923 the term "stove piped" was around yet, so "spiked" could definitely have meant that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: Well, looking up “spiked guns” on today’s search engines results in lots of articles and blogs by hand-wringing bedwetting Nancy boys lamenting the spikes in gun sales…a darn good thing, if you asked me. Newsom does carry on, doesn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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