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I transitioned from Cowboy Fast Draw to SASS in 2019 which meant that I was the proud owner of a new Vaquero 45 Colt. Having never shot a sass match I decided to get a matching revolver and a rifle in the same caliber.

I can see the advantages of shooting 38s now but am not willing to change after being this invested. Has anyone used 45 Schofield in a Marlin 1894 or new Vaquero? I'm just wondering if I may be able to run my rifle a little faster and save on some powder to boot. I cast my own bullets and reload so factory ammo cost is not going to be an issue.

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I shoot with a pard who shoots Schofield pistols, and also uses 45 Schofield ammo in his 1894 Marlin. All of his firearms are stock I believe. However like OLG said unless you are shooting Schofield pistols 45 Colt brass is easier to come by, or you could go to 45 Colt Cowboy Special brass.

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Can it be done?   Yes

Does it work?  Yes

Just do the Widdermajik mod to your rifle.

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Widdermajic_Marlin.htm

 

Will it make you shoot faster?   No

Edited by Cholla Bob
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I've used Cowboy45Special brass in my Colt SAAs since shortly after they were presented by their creator, Adirondack Jack.  I modified a Marlin 1894 per mods developed and perfected by Widder, (See Cholla Bob's post above), for use in Wild Bunch, (fewer rifle rounds fired, so fewer lost).  I've since converted a Uberti 1873 rifle to use the same cartridge.  Before they were offered for direct sale from Starline, they were mainly used in the pistols in CAS  Now that Starline has them available, losing a few at a match doesn't seem to bite as much...   Loading data is non-existent, unless you work off the data a fellow cowboy shooter might provide.  

 

I've been using 3.4 grains of Clays in the C45S case with Winchester primers and a 160 RFN;   from the 18-½ bbl in the '73 get approx 700 fps.  Obviously, lower in the Colt SAAs.  But, I'm not exactly a "competitive" shooter... but shooting a cowboy match is more laughs than pretending to be a benchrest shooter, all hunched over their chronograph and powder scale.... :ph34r:

Edited by Griff
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Your specific question, I don't know how Schofield brass will work in those guns.  Schofield don't load well in my Win 1873 (about 5 will cycle before one will stovepipe), but work great in my Uberti revolvers.  Schofield brass has slightly larger diameter rim, so they may or may not fit in your vaquero cylinder.

 

One advantage of using Schofield brass in revolver and 45 Colt in rifle is I like a heavier load in the rifle to reduce blowby, but lighter loads in the revolvers to reduce recoil (especially with Black Powder).  Using different brass makes it super easy to tell the heavier loads from the lighter ones.  Almost as easy as using 45 in rifle and 38 in revolver.  Using a loading block, the Colts stick out farther.

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Thank you for the replies. I didn't know about the cowboy specials. Maybe they are a better option. The smallest quantity of Schofield I've seen is 500. Maybe the specials will be easier to find. If not I will be thankful for the 45 Colt brass that I have and make the most of them.

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You are definitely gonna want to order at least 500 pieces of brass especially if you are shooting it in both your pistols and rifle.   I don't know about your marlin but mine and a lot of other marlins like to throw the brass in a forward direction which usually means in front of the props we are shooting behind.

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I've  always used Schofield .45's  in my OMV's..yes no real advantage, I just like em [ 160 g bullets ]...using the Schofields occassionally in the 73 I use 250g to cycle & feed properly [ normally Colt brass also wth the 160g ] can't comment re the Marlin.

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4 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

If you already have a lot of. 45 Colt cases, trimming them down to C45S length might be an option. 

 

I've read that shortening 45 Colt brass to C45S length can cause problems, because the thickness of the brass walls gets thicker as you near the head.  I'm not saying you can't do it, just saying to take that into consideration.

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2 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

 

I've read that shortening 45 Colt brass to C45S length can cause problems, because the thickness of the brass walls gets thicker as you near the head.  I'm not saying you can't do it, just saying to take that into consideration.

 

Jake,

You mentioned a legitimate concern.   The thickness of the brass of the cut .45 Colt brass will probably be thicker at the case mouth than factory size C45S brass.

 

If can create some issues in seating bullets and possibly cause unsightly bulges in your reloads unless you use slightly undersized bullets.

 

As for using Schofield's in the Marlin 1894,, many of them will feed o.k. with NO issues.   But, some won't.

This can be remedied by building up the carrier timing ramp by a few .000's.

Send the carrier to Gunner Gatlin for a ramp increase of approx  .005+

 

 

..........Widder

 

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I cut some off before I got my 45 special. I had no problem with starline or mixed brands bulging because of thickness. 

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I've used Schofield brass in my Vaquero and New Vaqueros with no problem, but I've never tried them in my Marlin.

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I shot 45 S&W in my 73 rifle for about 10 years with no problems at all. The older model Uberti open tops did not cycle 45 S&W but the newer run will cycle both 45 Colt and 45 S&W. I shoot full black powder loads in both the 45 and 45 S&W and never had an issue picking up the 45 S&W brass. I shoot C&B now and 44-40 in my rifle. DC

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56 minutes ago, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said:
14 hours ago, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said:

I shot 45 S&W in my 73 rifle for about 10 years with no problems at all. The older model Uberti open tops did not cycle 45 S&W but the newer run will cycle both 45 Colt and 45 S&W. I shoot full black powder loads in both the 45 and 45 S&W and never had an issue picking up the 45 S&W brass. I shoot C&B now and 44-40 in my rifle. DC

45 S&W Schofield

With the 1873 rifle it's a matter of the length and angle of the ramp on the front of the carrier as to just how short a round can be cycled.  However, there is a point at which the carrier cannot push a round back into the magazine on its way up to deliver a round to the chamber.  When you say the Uberti Open Top would not cycle, I'm left assume you meant the cylinder wouldn't rotate.  Was this because of the thickness of the rim, or did you meant they wouldn't chamber because of the wider diameter of the 45 Schofield rim?  

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the older models would not rotate with the Schofield round. The larger rim made the cylinder bind up the cylinder. I shoot this round in my newer Open Tops with no problems at all.

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On 4/7/2022 at 6:03 AM, Diamond Jake said:

 

I've read that shortening 45 Colt brass to C45S length can cause problems, because the thickness of the brass walls gets thicker as you near the head.  I'm not saying you can't do it, just saying to take that into consideration.

I’ve had no real world problems in pistol or rifle use. Unlike reading something, over the last decade I have cut down hundreds of cases from various brands 45 Colt brass to C45S and can say it’s like finding a unicorn in a hayfield to measure any appreciable neck thickness increase! If memory serves me it seems that some AMARC and PMC will run about a .001-.0015 thousands thicker after being cut back but still thinner than some top quality brand names of full length 45 Colt case mouths. The one oddity I’ve encountered is that actual manufactured C45S Starline cases tend to split before any cutdowns except for W-W / Winchester which fail at about the same rate. The apparent conclusion is Starline cartridge brass Is a bit more brittle. The other point to consider when running Schofield ammo is the rim diameter differs from 45 Colt where C45S does not.  My 1872 Open Tops would chamber Schofield with the rims actually touching, but showed no such interference with Colt or 45 Cowboy  (C45S) brass , my 66 will run either without trouble but the 73 definitely doesn’t like playing with Schofield cases and I’ve never bothered putting them in Marlins. Rugers … they just don’t care what comes their way:)

Edited by Captain Clark
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On 4/8/2022 at 6:58 PM, Captain Clark said:

I’ve had no real world problems in pistol or rifle use. ...

 

Agreed.  That's why I said they might work fine.  The article was written when the C45S first came out, and perhaps they wanted to generate interest in buying the brass.

 

The extra rim diameter of the Scofield is a bit of a pain.  They require a different shell holder...when I get back from a match I have to separate the 45 Colt brass from the Schofield brass before running them through the press.  I have to separate them before running them through the de-capping die, and if I tumble them together in a single batch I have to separate them again before reloading.  In retrospect I'm not sure I should have just stayed with 45 Colt, but now I have hundreds of Schofield brass.

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On 4/8/2022 at 6:41 PM, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said:

the older models would not rotate with the Schofield round. The larger rim made the cylinder bind up the cylinder. I shoot this round in my newer Open Tops with no problems at all.

If that is true then you either had a defective gun(s) or out-of-spec ammo.  Uberti Opentops (and conversions) were offered in 45 Schofield caliber for some years before adding the 45 Colt option.

 

You aren't getting confused with the old ASM .44 Richards conversions are you? Those would chamber 44 Colt only, not the special or Russian due to rim overlap.

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