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What Would You Do


Yul Lose
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I was manning the unload table at the Cowboys match on Sunday and on the last stage a new shooter came to the table with 2 locked up revolvers caused by squibs. I had him clear his long guns and then he had no idea what to do with the revolvers and gave me permission to try and clear the guns. Using a short squib rod I determined that the first revolver had a bullet stuck in the chamber and forcing cone and a couple of taps with the squib rod moved the bullet back into the chamber far enough to get the cylinder to turn and the gun cleared. The second one I could tell right away that there was more than one bullet lodged in the barrel and chamber locking the gun up. The squib rod would stop about 1” from the front of the chamber and wouldn’t move the bullet. This gun is probably going back to Ruger.

 

It’s likely that there we’re still live rounds in the gun. How would  you handle something like this at your ranges that you shoot at? Would someone accompany the shooter and his loaded gun back to his car? The gun is inoperable the way it is so what would your range procedure be.

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7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Walk it to the car.

Who loaded the ammo?

OLG 

He did.

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16 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I was manning the unload table at the Cowboys match on Sunday and on the last stage a new shooter came to the table with 2 locked up revolvers caused by squibs. I had him clear his long guns and then he had no idea what to do with the revolvers and gave me permission to try and clear the guns. Using a short squib rod I determined that the first revolver had a bullet stuck in the chamber and forcing cone and a couple of taps with the squib rod moved the bullet back into the chamber far enough to get the cylinder to turn and the gun cleared. The second one I could tell right away that there was more than one bullet lodged in the barrel and chamber locking the gun up. The squib rod would stop about 1” from the front of the chamber and wouldn’t move the bullet. This gun is probably going back to Ruger.

 

It’s likely that there we’re still live rounds in the gun. How would  you handle something like this at your ranges that you shoot at? Would someone accompany the shooter and his loaded gun back to his car? The gun is inoperable the way it is so what would your range procedure be.

First, I'd try removing the base pin and see if the cylinder could be wriggled free, bending brass cases if necessary. 

 Failing that, if my own gun, I would

1. transport it home,

2. remove the grips,

3. secure the grip frame in a milling machine (not a drill press) vise,

4. align the gun to the quill using an appropriate diameter rod,

5. tighten the vise,

6. drill 1/2 diameter and tap the slugs,

7. screw in a threaded aluminum rod, chucked in the machine's quill, and

8. use the quill force to extract the bullets one at a time from the muzzle end.  

 

If I didn't have a mill, any local gunsmith can do the job.  No need to ship the loaded firearms.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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23 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

First, I'd try removing the base pin and see if the cylinder could be wriggled free, bending brass cases if necessary. 

 Failing that, if my own gun, I would

1. transport it home,

2. remove the grips,

3. secure the grip frame in a milling machine (not a drill press) vise,

4. align the gun to the quill using an appropriate diameter rod,

5. tighten the vise,

6. drill 1/2 diameter and tap the slugs,

7. screw in a threaded aluminum rod, chucked in the machine's quill, and

8. use the quill force to extract the bullets one at a time from the muzzle end.  

 

If I didn't have a mill, any local gunsmith can do the job.  No need to ship the loaded firearms.  

Sheesh!!! Just answer the question. What’s the procedure at your range?

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1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Sheesh!!! Just answer the question. What’s the procedure at your range?

To my knowledge, the procedure at our facility is only what is in the SHB.

(corrected from earlier)

Range Official must supervise removal of the gun from the firing line to a destination off range.  Beyond that is shooter responsibility.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Do what you did is about the only way to do it...at the ranges that I've ever been involved with. Live ammo in the one revolver is irrelevant since the cylinder will not rotate.

 

Phantom

 

PS: I've never been to a range/club that has in it's policies that a "Backup or borrowed gun being used..." is stated.

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Do what you did is about the only way to do it...at the ranges that I've ever been involved with. Live ammo in the one revolver is irrelevant since the cylinder will not rotate.

 

Phantom

 

PS: I've never been to a range/club that has in it's policies that a "Backup or borrowed gun being used..." is stated.

Do the ranges where you shoot have policies specifically addressing firearms with squibs or other disabled firearms,  other than the SASS SHB direction?

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1 minute ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Do the ranges where you shoot have policies specifically addressing firearms with squibs or other disabled firearms,  other than the SASS SHB direction?

Nope...dedicated ranges.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Nope...dedicated ranges.

 

 

Technically, in our state, it is unlawful to transport a gun containing live ammunition in a vehicle on the highway.  And the SASS SHB requires all guns to be unloaded except on the firing line.

So the inoperative gun either has to be repaired at the ULT, or MD  permission granted to remove it to another area of the range to be worked on, or it has to be left at the ULT forever (or until somebody brings a milling machine or other tools to extract the squibs, per the process I described earlier. ) 

I suspect that's why there are no written policies.

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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6 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Technically, in our state, it is unlawful to transport a gun containing live ammunition in a vehicle on the highway.  And the SASS SHB requires all guns to be unloaded except on the firing line.

So the inoperative gun either has to be repaired at the ULT, or MD  permission granted to remove it to another area of the range to be worked on, or it has to be left at the ULT forever (or until somebody brings a milling machine or other tools to extract the squibs, per the process I described earlier. ) 

I suspect that's why there are no written policies.

I've got a question for you: Don't you think that we know this?

 

Phantom

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Murphy's Laws:

1.  Whatever can go wrong will go wrong.

2.  When things go wrong you have to do something.

3. Sometimes doing nothing IS doing something.

4. Sometimes doing something IS doing nothing.  

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've got a question for you: Don't you think that we know this?

 

Phantom

Hopefully

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Under the situation given, the shooter may only leave the ULT (which we all know is part of the firing line), if he/she is escorted by a Match Official. Doing otherwise is a Match DQ. 

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1 minute ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Hopefully

Then why all the info that really doesn't need to be written out?

 

If there is no Gunsmith at the monthly...or this Gunsmith can't deal with the issue on sight. You do what you can do.

 

Why all this extra stuff...talking about policies of Backup/Barrow guns...milling machines...etc, etc.?

 

oy...

 

Phantom

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I don't see how it could be handled any other way. Good job You Lose!

 

 

26 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Hopefully

 

We know the laws, but this gun isn't going to get fixed at the ULT or the range. Most likely the easiest fix is the removal of the barrel. Loaning the person a gun is crazy, this shooter should not be allowed to continue under any circumstances. If he/she doesn't know that they've had multiple squibs they are unsafe and need to be re-orientated to gun and range safety. 

 

Tully 

 

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3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Then why all the info that really doesn't need to be written out?

 

If there is no Gunsmith at the monthly...or this Gunsmith can't deal with the issue on sight. You do what you can do.

 

Why all this extra stuff...talking about policies of Backup/Barrow guns...milling machines...etc, etc.?

 

oy...

 

Phantom

Probably not.  Why?  Is it a big problem? (Just don't read it)

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21 minutes ago, Tully Mars said:

I don't see how it could be handled any other way. Good job You Lose!

 

 

 

We know the laws, but this gun isn't going to get fixed at the ULT or the range. Most likely the easiest fix is the removal of the barrel. Loaning the person a gun is crazy, this shooter should not be allowed to continue under any circumstances. If he/she doesn't know that they've had multiple squibs they are unsafe and need to be re-orientated to gun and range safety. 

 

Tully 

 

I've seen a couple situations where very experienced shooters had multiple squibs from low powder loads or obstructed barrels that went initially undetected.   They aren't always just the primer sound.   I don't know the circumstances in this case.  

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26 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I've seen a couple situations where very experienced shooters had multiple squibs from low powder loads or obstructed barrels that went initially undetected.   They aren't always just the primer sound.   I don't know the circumstances in this case.  

 

It was a new shooter as per Yul Lose's original post. They need further guidance in reloading, gun and range safety before continuing in the sport. I know that club and they will get the help they need provided they seek it out. However we are off topic from the original question.

Tully

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35 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Under the situation given, the shooter may only leave the ULT (which we all know is part of the firing line), if he/she is escorted by a Match Official. Doing otherwise is a Match DQ. 

+1

SHB page 23.

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Yul, we shoot the same ranges, so I can't add anything there. 

I just wanted to ask if our new pard is getting some mentoring. 

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Haven't had to deal with a squib personally in many years, as I put personal procedures in place to prevent, such as using powder checks on all my loaders. However, when I did, I found that spraying some Break Free down the barrell helped when the squib rod wouldn't do the job by itself.

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At the ULT, advise THEM on how to clear THEIR own firearm. I'm not wrangling on someone else's property (opens you up for... who knows what).

If you can get them through clearing the guns, have them use someone else's ammo or they are finished for the day.

Firearm cannot be cleared, TAKE THEM to their vehicle and have them secure their property so they can have it professionally cleared/repaired.

Then, (if you wanna be nice) ask them about their loading practices and maybe advise on further tutoring on their reloading process. 

You don't have to be a jerk; they are new and maybe don't know any better, but there is definitely a problem that needs to be corrected.

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28 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Yul, we shoot the same ranges, so I can't add anything there. 

I just wanted to ask if our new pard is getting some mentoring. 

Yes, he is.

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21 minutes ago, Max Payne said:

Haven't had to deal with a squib personally in many years, as I put personal procedures in place to prevent, such as using powder checks on all my loaders. However, when I did, I found that spraying some Break Free down the barrell helped when the squib rod wouldn't do the job by itself.

But when there are 2-3 bullets stacked on each other that won’t do much good.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Probably not.  Why?  Is it a big problem? (Just don't read it)

Just wondering from a human behavior standpoint why the need to constantly inject tangent topics...

 

Anywayz...back to your regularly scheduled Wire debate.

 

Phantom

PS: At most club's montlies, the MD would not be called over to escort the shooter to their vehicle...

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1 hour ago, Tully Mars said:

 

It was a new shooter as per Yul Lose's original post. They need further guidance in reloading, gun and range safety before continuing in the sport. I know that club and they will get the help they need provided they seek it out. However we are off topic from the original question.

Tully

This

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

First, I'd try removing the base pin and see if the cylinder could be wriggled free, bending brass cases if necessary. 

 Failing that, if my own gun, I would

1. transport it home,

2. remove the grips,

3. secure the grip frame in a milling machine (not a drill press) vise,

4. align the gun to the quill using an appropriate diameter rod,

5. tighten the vise,

6. drill 1/2 diameter and tap the slugs,

7. screw in a threaded aluminum rod, chucked in the machine's quill, and

8. use the quill force to extract the bullets one at a time from the muzzle end.  

 

If I didn't have a mill, any local gunsmith can do the job.  No need to ship the loaded firearms.  

Would it be better to try and remove the barrel? I’m not a gunsmith, just asking.

Edited by Yul Lose
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1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

#6 seems like it might ruin the barrel since the gun in question is a .357. Just my uneducated opinion, of course.

I'd use a 5/8 Dia drill...maybe a hammer jack...but only after reciting the whole SASS handbook.

 

Phantom

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'd use a 5/8 Dia drill...maybe a hammer jack...but only after reciting the whole SASS handbook.

 

Phantom

Read carefully.  Is says "1/2 diameter", not 1/2 inch diameter.  If the barrel is .375, then the drill needs to be half of that or 3/16".  

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19 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Would it be better to try and remove the barrel? I’m not a gunsmith, just asking.

Removing the barrel doesn't get the squib bullets out of the barrel, although it would enable the cylinder to turn -- but you already knew that, right? 

 

If you are going to use the drill and tap method, then It's actually much easier to hold and position the grip frame in the milling vise, than it is to hold the round barrel by itself. 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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