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Hey all, 

    I'm getting a primer maker from 22lr reloader and it got me thinking about volcanic repeaters.  If a person were to recreate some rocket ball ammo and show up with a repro or original volcanic repeater, other than potentially not being able to make power factor, is there any specific prohibition for this kind of ammo, or is it only Cap and Ball, Centerfire and Rimfire permitted?

 

El CupAJoe

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Posted (edited)

The Volcanic handgun isn't a revolver, so it wouldn't be allowed. The carbine is so rare, I've never seen one outside of the Cody museum - you actually have one? Without getting into the safety aspects, since the Rocket Ball ammo doesn't appear to have ever been chambered in a revolver, I'd say the carbine would also be disallowed. Not to mention, it's probably a $40,000+ gun.

Edited by Three Foot Johnson
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19 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

The Volcanic handgun isn't a revolver, so it wouldn't be allowed. The carbine is so rare, I've never seen one outside of the Cody museum - you actually have one? Without getting into the safety aspects, since the Rocket Ball ammo doesn't appear to have ever been chambered in a revolver, I'd say the carbine would also be disallowed. Not to mention, it's probably a $40,000+ gun.

thinking about making a repro mostly.  If I ever end up with a Bridgeport and too much time on my hands, a volcanic might be high up on my list of things to try.

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A few years back a guy made a Volcanic from scratch, but he made it to fire brass cased ammo, and modified 40S&W brass for it, I think.  Description and lots of pics of the project are somewhere on the web.  I've found it a few times.  

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A repro in .32 or .38 would be a LOT of fun!

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I also think that a reproduction Volcanic would sell.  I mean, if enough people buy Mare's Legs to justify their creation, I think a Volcanic would sell just a well to the same buyers.

Now if we could just get SASS to legalize 'em.   They'd prolly sell even more.

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All center-fire or rim-fire ammunition must be designed to package the bullet, gunpowder, and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of the firearm. The primer must be of the type that uses only a small charge of impact sensitive chemical that may be located at the center of the case head or at its rim. 

Copyright© Single Action Shooting Society, Inc. 2021 Version Page 26

 

This is the closest I could find in the Shooters Handbook to rocket ball prohibition.

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18 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

A few years back a guy made a Volcanic from scratch, but he made it to fire brass cased ammo, and modified 40S&W brass for it, I think.  Description and lots of pics of the project are somewhere on the web.  I've found it a few times.  

I think this is link Abilene was talking about

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3ea2180a9524d28b528f313df0c0b662;act=ST;f=3;t=22531;st=0

 

28 pages of info and compliments.

 

La Sombra

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22 minutes ago, La Sombra said:

I think this is link Abilene was talking about

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3ea2180a9524d28b528f313df0c0b662;act=ST;f=3;t=22531;st=0

 

28 pages of info and compliments.

 

La Sombra

 

Well, that was cool, but the one I was remembering was a rifle, not a pistol!  I think the guy's name was Mike.

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20 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

IIRC Lead Dispenser had/has a Volcanic.


I recall seeing a video of him or another SASS shooter firing one with original type ammo some years back. They were speculating that it might have been the first time one as fired like that in decades.

 

Seamus

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Don Barker.from Cody, Wy was building Volcanic pistols in 22lr. He built about 40 total. Dustin Linebaugh was fitting all the parts and he may still have one or two of the completed guns. This was back in 2000. After 9/11 people lost interest in the Volcanics. I carried one around to gun shows along with literature when I was selling Laser Cast bullets. From my understanding the propellant in the originals was slow burning and inconsistent. There was no case, the powder was in the hollowed out bullet. Therefore no ejector was necessary. When fired originals made more of a hissing sound and not a loud boom like a black powder round. Don had to design the 22lr model to extract the empty cases. There was a carbine kit available for the pistols, I recall seeing one at a Winchester collector show and it was complete with case, I believe they were asking $80k.

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Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes!

 

I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version.  Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'.  I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size.  Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion.

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43 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes!

 

I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version.  Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'.  I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size.  Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion.

 

Would you call a Mare's Leg based on the Henry a Volcanic?   Or if you wanted to would you need to do some major mods to the grip and lever?

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1 hour ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Taking a break from audit schedules, and I am afraid I will upset some people, but here goes!

 

I was thinking of trying to get a Henry receiver from Henry Rifle, and then counting down a rifle barrel, or paying them to do it it to a 12" length for the pistol version.  Fantasy, not all the ideas worked out yet, but that was my dreamin'.  I figured I could go to someone to heat up the lever to match a grip that I would have to play with say an Army or Navy style C&B grip, not sure of the size.  Still in the pie in the sky stage, but food for thought and discussion.

As it began life registered as a rifle you would have to obtain a permit for a Short Barreled Rifle. The magazine opening would be problematic. Of course you could start with a 66 action and have a loading gate. I think I would get one of the carriers for shorter rounds and when they cut the barrel cut from the chamber end and re-chamber to 44 Russian. This would give you the most rounds. Or 45 Cowboy if you started with a 45.

Edited by Goody, SASS #26190
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On 5/5/2021 at 12:00 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Well, that was cool, but the one I was remembering was a rifle, not a pistol!  I think the guy's name was Mike.

Maybe Charlie?  This be the one you're thinkin' of:  Charlie's .40 cal Volcanic   Oh, I see I was beat out on the answer

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On 5/4/2021 at 3:12 PM, El CupAJoe said:

other than potentially not being able to make power factor

I'd like to go on record as having re-read the rulebook, apparently as far as I can tell, there is no PF requirement for black powder cartridges or cap and ball as long as you aren't shooting black powder centerfire cartridges in a "Smokeless Category"  there are only minimum caliber and smoke and maximum velocity requirements.  If I'm reading that wrong please advise.

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Yes, I would be looking to make the grip adjustments to look like the Volcanic pistol.

 

And if I am buying a frame and having a 9-12 inch barrel/magazine put on it, why would it be considered a short barrel rifle?  Nothing different than short 92 "pistols" out now, right?  The frame is like an AR15 without a barrel, I can buy a frame put it together with a .300 blackout pistol upper and it is a pistol, right?

 

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A frame/receiver is just a frame/receiver, it is neither a long gun nor handgun, and is transferred on a 4473 as "other".

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1 hour ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Yes, I would be looking to make the grip adjustments to look like the Volcanic pistol.

 

And if I am buying a frame and having a 9-12 inch barrel/magazine put on it, why would it be considered a short barrel rifle?  Nothing different than short 92 "pistols" out now, right?  The frame is like an AR15 without a barrel, I can buy a frame put it together with a .300 blackout pistol upper and it is a pistol, right?

 

A virgin frame can be either, a pistol frame can be made into a rifle, and maybe converted back.  A rifle frame that is made into a pistol configuration requires a SBR tax stamp.  if you can get a virgin frame from Henry, it would require no tax stamp, if you get a frame from a donor rifle, you'll have to pay the tax stamp and notify BATF if you travel out of state with it etc.

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