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Lefty Wheeler

WTC leaving the line

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Page 107, leaving the line for any reason once the stage has begun. 

 

The question I have, at what point has the stage begun. I would think once the first round goes down range however a shooter was not allowed to ground pistols and get shotgun shells. This would indicate it starts either when you start loading, leave the loading table, stage the first gun or the busser goes off.  I have to think this was a bad call, not allowing the person to go to their cart. The shooter borrowed shells and no penality was assessed. 

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Posted (edited)
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Once a shooter is committed to the stage (when the first round actually leaves the barrel) the shooter must remain on the stage until it is completed, and the shooter has moved to the unloading area to clear all firearms. 

SHB p.14

 

Quote

Stage – synonymous with “Course of Fire” from the beep of the timer once the shooter has signified “ready” to the last shot fired. 

SHB p.46

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

Page 107, leaving the line for any reason once the stage has begun. 

 

The question I have, at what point has the stage begun. I would think once the first round goes down range however a shooter was not allowed to ground pistols and get shotgun shells. This would indicate it starts either when you start loading, leave the loading table, stage the first gun or the busser goes off.  I have to think this was a bad call, not allowing the person to go to their cart. The shooter borrowed shells and no penality was assessed. 

 

And, IF the shooter "borrowed" that ammo during the course of fire, that is illegally acquired ammo and subject to both a procedural and misses.

 

"Illegally acquired ammunition – ammo NOT carried to the line or staged by the shooter in an approved manner." - SHB, p. 45

 

"The penalty of using “illegally acquired” ammunitions (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) is a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo are scored as MISSES. NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time ." - SHB, p. 19

Edited by Ozark Shark
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The ammo was acquired before the "course of fire" began, therefore legally acquired. Correct no call.

It would have been legal for grounding pistols and leaving the line to retrieve ammo, although not recommended. Send the shooter back to the loading table where they can ground their pistols, call the next shooter who is ready and keep things moving. 

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"illegally" acquired shotgun shells only applies after the buzzer.

 

Coming to the line with empty loops is not illegal...

Acquiring the needed shells before the stage begins is not illegal...

Whether the needed shells come from your cart, your neighbor or the TO - as long as the shells are on the shooters person in an approved manner BEFORE the beep - they are legally obtained and carried to the line in an approved manner.

 

There is no penalty and forbidding a shooter from obtaining shells prior to the beep is incorrect procedure.

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I think the first shot is the dividing line.  If the shooter realizes after the beep he/she doesn't have ammo, he/she can request a restart.  Once it's given, the shooter can get what they need.

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I guess I read and re-read this wrong.  @Lefty Wheeler are you saying the shooter was still at the loading table and someone else was on the firing line or that the shooter was on the firing line and then tried to retrieve  SG shells?  

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4 hours ago, Ozark Shark said:

 

And, IF the shooter "borrowed" that ammo during the course of fire, that is illegally acquired ammo and subject to both a procedural and misses.

 

"Illegally acquired ammunition – ammo NOT carried to the line or staged by the shooter in an approved manner." - SHB, p. 45

 

"The penalty of using “illegally acquired” ammunitions (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) is a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo are scored as MISSES. NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time ." - SHB, p. 19

It was before the beep

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2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I guess I read and re-read this wrong.  @Lefty Wheeler are you saying the shooter was still at the loading table and someone else was on the firing line or that the shooter was on the firing line and then tried to retrieve  SG shells?  

No shooter staged long guns and TO noticed no shotgun shells, told Him to stage pistols and get some from his cart, others stoped him and said incorrectly he could not leave the stage.

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16 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

No shooter staged long guns and TO noticed no shotgun shells, told Him to stage pistols and get some from his cart, others stoped him and said incorrectly he could not leave the stage.

The TO was correct.  As long as the shooter staged all firearms on the line, it's safe and the TO's call to allow the shooter to retrieve their shotshells.  Had I been the TO, I would have opted for have them return to the loading table as Ranger Dan suggested, so they could regroup and keep the stage moving.

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26 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

It was before the beep

Understood.  It was unclear in your post, and that was why I said, "IF."

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Like others said, it should have been a no call & OK for the Shooter to leave and acquire the needed shells....

 

BUT.... I have been at "Large Matches" when the Club Officers stated at the shooters meeting.........

Once a Shooter is "On the Stage"...  even though the Timer had not yet started...

The Shooter would Not be allowed to leave the Stage before completing it for any reason.

Including having forgotten needed shotgun shells.........

 

They added that it was because of time constraints and the need to keep the Posse's moving as smoothly as Possible.

Then added... " Check Yer Stuff ahead of time and keep things Moving"

 

So There Ya Go..... It "could" have been the correct call....... depending on the situation........... B)

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2 minutes ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

Like others said, it should have been a no call & OK for the Shooter to leave and acquire the needed shells....

 

BUT.... I have been at "Large Matches" when the Club Officers stated at the shooters meeting.........

Once a Shooter is "On the Stage"...  even though the Timer had not yet started...

The Shooter would Not be allowed to leave the Stage before completing it for any reason.

Including having forgotten needed shotgun shells.........

 

They added that it was because of time constraints and the need to keep the Posse's moving as smoothly as Possible.

Then added... " Check Yer Stuff ahead of time and keep things Moving"

 

So There Ya Go..... It "could" have been the correct call....... depending on the situation........... B)

Was not the case Sam, just a local shoot and the posse was running ahead of schedule.  

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37 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

Was not the case Sam, just a local shoot and the posse was running ahead of schedule.  

 

Yep, Thats what I Figger'd..... I was just sittin' around the house, wit nuttin' ta Do!

Wait'n to Shoot Wild Bunch Tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!!!! YeeHawwwww

 

You coming to CVV this weekend ?

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Yes may go Sunday also weather permitting. See you tomorrow.

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4 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

Yes may go Sunday also weather permitting. See you tomorrow.

 

My thought's exactly.... CU tomorrow!

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Stepping out of exile...

 

This is one of the stoopidest things I've ever heard...

 

Stepping back into exile...

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I guess I read and re-read this wrong.  @Lefty Wheeler are you saying the shooter was still at the loading table and someone else was on the firing line or that the shooter was on the firing line and then tried to retrieve  SG shells?  

 

The LT is part of the "firing line" (not that it is relevant to the OP).

REF: SHB p.45

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

Like others said, it should have been a no call & OK for the Shooter to leave and acquire the needed shells....

 

BUT.... I have been at "Large Matches" when the Club Officers stated at the shooters meeting.........

Once a Shooter is "On the Stage"...  even though the Timer had not yet started...

The Shooter would Not be allowed to leave the Stage before completing it for any reason.

Including having forgotten needed shotgun shells.........

 

They added that it was because of time constraints and the need to keep the Posse's moving as smoothly as Possible.

Then added... " Check Yer Stuff ahead of time and keep things Moving"

 

So There Ya Go..... It "could" have been the correct call....... depending on the situation........... B)

 

Sounds like the "others" referenced in the OP.

What's the penalty for violating this made-up rule??
<_<

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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53 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Sounds like the "others" referenced in the OP.

What's the penalty for violating this made-up rule??
<_<

 

 

They didn't say & I didn't ask.

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Posted (edited)

 

Deleted - never mind

Edited by Tequila Shooter

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Lefty, thanks for asking this question. It was a good one & needed clarification.

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WOW!

This Topic generates more questions than it answers!  I need to reread this Topic a couple more times to sort them out 

 

But first, my view is that should the “Club Officers” make any “Royal Decrees” prior to, during, or after a match...any match...which go against SASS Rules,, such “Decrees“ are invalid.

 

Cat Brules

 

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7 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

WOW!

This Topic generates more questions than it answers!  I need to reread this Topic a couple more times to sort them out 

 

But first, my view is that should the “Club Officers” make any “Royal Decrees” prior to, during, or after a match...any match...which go against SASS Rules,, such “Decrees“ are invalid.

 

Cat Brules

 

 

Plant then poke?

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8 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

WOW!

This Topic generates more questions than it answers!  I need to reread this Topic a couple more times to sort them out 

 

But first, my view is that should the “Club Officers” make any “Royal Decrees” prior to, during, or after a match...any match...which go against SASS Rules,, such “Decrees“ are invalid.

 

Cat Brules

 

One of the reasons I quit being a TG was the club President (changed to VP when the following things happened) would spring changes at Shooters' Meetings. The latest was when you sweep someone with an unloaded gun it is a MDQ. I never went back after when I was standing next to him when he asked another shooter whether something was a MDQ.  It was a SDQ.

 

I used to put the posses together so I'd never have to shoot with him. Unfortunately, our attendance declined to the point where we only had enough shooters for one posse.

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