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Warden Callaway

Remington Lifter 10 gauge - gun shop find!

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Thunderstorms moved through just before daybreak so I decided it was a road trip day.  We hit our first favorite toy stores and found their inventory about half normal.   They had been selling like crazy.  New guns going out within hours of getting them in.

 

I had no intention of buying anything. But they had this old Remington Lifter 10 gauge. 

 

242744223_RemingtonLifter1May2020.jpg.188b9a261a43e943274a95fad6c57b49.jpg

 

469546440_RemingtonLifter2May2020.jpg.1907e5b42ec9c1cc2e6e53b44ef9630f.jpg

 

Cool old gun! Complete and looks to be in good working order. 

 

I can sweep both hammers back and push the top lever up just like I do my CZ-USA coachgun but maybe I won't given the barrels probably weigh more than the total of the CZ. 

 

It sure needs a good cleaning. Rain in forecast for the next couple of days. 

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exactly what LGS's are you looking in?  Never see cool stuff around here.  Next time I am in Missouri visiting family, I swear I'm gonna start following you around, you find all the good stuff!  :D

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

exactly what LGS's are you looking in?  Never see cool stuff around here.  Next time I am in Missouri visiting family, I swear I'm gonna start following you around, you find all the good stuff!  :D

 

 

 

That wouldn't be in my best interest to give out that kind of information! B)

 

We have a half dozen stores that we hit on some rotational bases.  

 

This makes my third Remington hammer double 10 gauge - this, 73, an 82 and a 89.    I also have an 89 in 12 gauge.   I didn't need another Remington 10 gauge double but there it was,   needing a good home.

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A few more pictures. 

205935167_Remington73LiftertriggerplateMay2020.jpg.1ba3cf735075119468921a31ac556926.jpg

 

Bottom of action. Trigger plate (fire control group to the "tacticool" guys) don't look like it's been removed.  I seldon see "timed" screws unmolested.  This could delay things as I may have to soak them in penetrating oil and wait.

 

35884655_RemingtonLiftertriggertangMay2020.jpg.11426230e56b6539a93e07ffe591d765.jpg

 

The trigger guard screws have definitely been disturbed.  May be a case of putting them back in the wrong holes.

 

1084146754_RemingtonLifterforendMay2020.jpg.0b154aaa2c369e5ac909b0942ce5db17.jpg

 

The forend attachment is a wedge. A clear sign of an early breach loading shotgun.  The snap-on and other latch systems had not been invented yet. 

 

1509892183_RemingtonLifterleftsideMay2020.jpg.d1c01d14addad750ba1db8b148436644.jpg

 

Left side.  The small amount or wear on the checkering is an indication the old gun hadn't been used much. It likely was put up in favor of lighter 12 gauge guns. 

 

148054160_RemingtonLifterhammersMay2020.jpg.57391b4bf226a5726b3265d2c2c5e928.jpg

Hammers cocked. The tall, close set hammers are also a carryover from muzzle loader designs. Too bad someone is not reproducing this shotgun design for Cowboy Action Shooting. 

 

I'm going to take cautious steps in clearing up this old gun.  First is to get forend and barrel off for good cleaning and inspection.  I can get to the top side of the trigger plate and apply penetrating oil to the screws. 

 

I hope to get locks out to inspect what looks to be a crack above right lock.  I may have to do some repairs before shooting. 

 

If and when I can get the trigger plate out,  I can remove the buttstock.  I'll clean off the grime with Murphy's Oil and see what the wood looks like under the guck.

 

If all that goes well,  I'll put the action in the ultrasonic cleaner to boil out gunk down inside. 

 

May take a day or months. 

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Nice!

Any we find up here in Canada will join the ranks of the Prohibited.

Any shotgun with the barrel 20mm or larger is now on the BAD List with all the other weapons of mass destruction, like the AR-15, the Ranch Rifle etc. all at the wave of a piece of paper known as an Order In Council (OIC) with no discussion or approval in Parliament.

Be glad you have the Second Amendment in your favour and the NRA fighting for you.

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Posted (edited)

We'll I got it apart as far as I need to for cleaning and minor repairs.  I shot some video as I went.

 

Remington Lifter apart May 2020.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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Getting it cleaned up.

 

610598971_RemingtonLifterdirtywaterMay2020.jpg.66895437a287b690ac178a29bf71bbdc.jpg

 

Here is what the water and Simple Green looked like after a couple of cycles in the ultrasonic cleaner.   I started over with clean water. That was just the action parts.

 

205935167_Remington73LiftertriggerplateMay2020.jpg.1ba3cf735075119468921a31ac556926.jpg

 

Here is what it looked like when I brought it home.

 

1091281132_RemingtonLifterreceivercleanMay2020.jpg.0c65f821ff9072fbcf82ff6c44720bcd.jpg

 

After good bath and brushing on the carding wheel. 

 

I have a couple of small cracks in buttstock to repair and more cleaning then it will be ready to assemble. 

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Warden,

 

Here is a silly question.  If you so chose, could you "sleeve" the barrels down to 12 gauge to make it "safer" to shoot?  I don't know if that would allow someone to use smokeless powder.  Although that wouldn't make the action any stronger.

 

Red Wolf

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Yes, but it's expensive to have permanent liners installed. Less expensive would be to get adaptor inserts. 

 

Keep in mind you're starting with a gun that weighs 10 to 14 lbs.  Adding adaptors or relineing is only going to add more weight.  

 

Then still the strength of the action would not be any better. This old gun was one mechanical upgrade from a muzzle loader and built with same materials and methods. 

 

You're far better off with a modern hammer double.  I'll shoot this one in a match with light black powder loads probably one match. Then go back to my CZ-USA hammer double. 

 

1005195298_RemingtonLifterfiringpinMay2029.jpg.8643e45745a00b2f054502985983f75b.jpg

 

I got the firing pins out and gave them a good cleaning as well as the pockets they fit in.  The pins are short - only a bit over 1/2".  Who ever took care of this gun always put oil on the pins. Bless their hearts.   I dug out a lot of packed in grease. 

 

 

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Be a fun Plainsman gun!!!

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That is just pretty dang neat!

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I hope you get it all cleaned up properly lubed and back in business.

Any idea why it was called the Remington “Lifter” ??

 

At 14 lbs., I imagine it shouldn’t kick too much.
 

Cat Brules

 

 

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It looks like you have to lift the lever to open the action.

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4 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

I hope you get it all cleaned up properly lubed and back in business.

Any idea why it was called the Remington “Lifter” ??

 

At 14 lbs., I imagine it shouldn’t kick too much.
 

Cat Brules

 

 

 

I lifted this history from an ad for one being sold by an auction house who probably copied it from somewhere else. 

 

Quote

Here we present an antique Remington Whitmore Model 1873 Double Barrel Hammer Shotgun, manufactured in Ilion, New York in 1873. The Model 1873 was the first double-barrel, breech-loading shotgun produced by E. Remington & Sons and first appeared in the fall of 1873. Early on, there were many collectors and writers that called this shotgun a Model 1874, but this is not correct. Present day collectors and researchers now call this a Remington Whitmore Model 1873 shotgun. E. Remington & Sons did not call any of the Whitmore guns by model designations, rather they called this particular gun a “Hammer Lifter”. The Model 1873 is easily distinguished from other Whitmore models, not only by the top sliding plate, but also by the unusual hammer design. This type of hammer appears only on a Model 1873 and has recessed faces similar to muzzle loader hammers. If a hammer is found with a flat face it has been filed down.

The exact number of Model 1873 shotguns produced is unknown, as records no longer exist. However, research indicates production can be fairly accurately estimated at 5,000. Model 1873 Hammer Lifter shotguns start with serial number 1 and the highest recorded Model 1873 is 4475. The Remington Model 1873 Hammer Lifter is a very distinctive, one-of-a-kind design not used by any other manufacturer. Occasionally it does confuse people with the other Whitmore models, but after one learns to identify this gun with its top plate and unique hammers, there is no other shotgun like it. Very few are ever seen at gun shows anymore and they are becoming a much sought after shotgun by collectors. 

 

Doing research is part of the entertainment of these old guns.  The gun I have is serial number 214.  Of less than 5,000 on this model gun, that makes it a very early example of the earliest double Remington made. 

 

I didn't need another double barrel shotguns but couldn't pass this one up.  Having researched more, I found that I "done good" on this one.  I pull up ads from gun auctions and show Sawmill Mary,   "See what they are asking for these?",  to reassure her it was a good buy.  She still sees it as another old gun I brought home to take apart. 

 

My thoughts on an old gun like this.  While they are over the top in cool factor for cowboy action shooting and truly authentic,  they are too valuable to cut down and use and abuse for this purpose.   There are far better new reproduction guns for the game.  Also parts are not available.  And smokeless loads, no matter how light is still unsafe in these old guns.  They may necessary not blow up but will stretch the action or crack the frame.  

 

Although modern ammo, talking 12 gauge, will fit in the chambers of these old guns, it doesn't mean that they are safe or appropriate for them.  The shotgun shells made today with star crimp and plastic wads only came in common use in about 1960.  The chambers on new guns are different than on old guns in that they have long forcing cones.  Too, back in the early days there were no standards on chamber dimensions or even bore diameter. 

 

By 1900 all guns were made of steel and designed for use with smokeless powder.  But the chambers were made for roll crimped shells and fiber wads. The chambers have little to no forcing cones and bores were often tighter.  Early smokeless powder was not the same as we have today.  This is why grandpa's old shotgun kicked like a mule and after a box or two of modern ammo shot through it became loose and had cracked buttstock,  etc. 

 

In conclusion,  if you want to shoot modern ammo,   get a modern gun. If you want to shoot an old gun,  research and reload the ammo that it was designed to shoot. 

 

 

 

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Cool and windy out so on the the next phase - repairs to a crack in the heel of the buttstock.   

 

1183191488_RemingtonLifterbuttstockrepairMay2020.jpg.7c57b31abc9577f7fc56677c5448fa60.jpg

 

There was a crack through the screw hole running along an annular ring about an inch below and above. I drilled two holes you see below and another above the brass punch above that is covered up by a piece that broke loose. 

 

The brass punch has releasing goop on it and there to keep the screw hole from filling in. Once the Acraglas sets to a plastic stage I'll pull it out.

 

I drilled the holes so I could pump the Acraglas well into the crack.  I drilled the first hole and the bit fell into a pocket.  It may explain the crack.  I used the dust from drilling holes to color some of the Acraglas and putty in a small area on the edge that was chipped out and missing.  

 

There are a couple of small cracks in the interface area up front I'm going to repair once this repair is solid.  

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45 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Cool and windy out so on the the next phase - repairs to a crack in the heel of the buttstock.   

 

 

The crack I noticed was in your original post, second picture. Just behind the right hammer, it starts at the tang, snakes it's way to the back, then turns and heads for the right sideplate. Did this chunk fall out when you took the gun apart?

2nd.jpg

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On 5/16/2020 at 1:47 PM, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Nice!

Any we find up here in Canada will join the ranks of the Prohibited.

Any shotgun with the barrel 20mm or larger is now on the BAD List with all the other weapons of mass destruction, like the AR-15, the Ranch Rifle etc. all at the wave of a piece of paper known as an Order In Council (OIC) with no discussion or approval in Parliament.

Be glad you have the Second Amendment in your favour and the NRA fighting for you.

Has there been anything said about changing the decree where you can keep your 12ga with screw in chokes ? 

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4 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

The crack I noticed was in your original post, second picture. Just behind the right hammer, it starts at the tang, snakes it's way to the back, then turns and heads for the right sideplate. Did this chunk fall out when you took the gun apart?

2nd.jpg

 

No.  It really looks solid in person. I can't find a crack inside the lock or an old repair.   I'll keep looking at it. I still have to scrub the grime off the stock. It may show up better or go away.

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On closer inspection....

 

1749364051_RemingtonLiftertopcrackMay2020.jpg.a0e9151bb4218504a0070453df70c50c.jpg

 

There is a serious but very repairable crack seen in the top.  

 

383256794_RemingtonLiftercrackbottomMay2020.jpg.e7e7bb5a41286f2c5315f0b5da8df1ac.jpg

 

That shows on the bottom side.  

 

I'll probably drill holes and install pegs with Acraglas.   Probably tomorrow.  

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12 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

On closer inspection..

 

 

I'll probably drill holes and install pegs with Acraglas.   Probably tomorrow.  

If the crack is spreadable without doing to much damage I’ve used the air compressor to blow acraglass in the crack while it’s still in the runny state . Sometimes you can get it pretty deep into the crack 

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That is a really grand old Shotgun.  I'm a Nervous Nellie when it comes to Damascus barrels.  Especially one from that far back.  I've seen several come apart and it weren't pretty.  I'd personally only shoot it with All Brass Hulls and very light loads.  The cracks in the wood should repair nicely.  Really nice Lifter.  I wouldn't mind at all were it mine.

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WC,

 

What material do you use for pegs and what for other repair stock?

 

Cat Brules

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Cat Brules said:

WC,

 

What material do you use for pegs and what for other repair stock?

 

Cat Brules

 

It depends on the repair.  If I have a toe split off,  I'll generally grind a trench in each part on what will be the inside unseen.   Then cut the head off a long drive screw and lay in the trench filled with Acraglas.  I use this method on other split offs like the upper areas of a a box lock buttstock.

 

Cracks in the lock area of old sidelock doubles,  I generally drill and install oak dowl with Acraglas.  Sometimes several. 

 

I'll likely drill and peg this one also. Couple of reasons.  1) the wood is 140+ years old.    2) I don't know how much oil has invaded in the crack.  By drilling and installing peg,  I know I'm bonding to fresh wood.  And I can span across the original grain.  

 

I've repaired much worse.  

 

Here is a video I made of repairing a buttstock on an original Winchester 1887.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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7 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Has there been anything said about changing the decree where you can keep your 12ga with screw in chokes ? 

 

There are a couple of petitions going around, but given the closed minds of the Canadian mis-government, "My Mind(?) is made up. Don't try to confuse me with facts!" the likely hood of  getting it changed is slim.

The main architect of the OIC is a former City of Toronto Police Chief, who actually knows better, but chooses to take this action, in-spite of ample evidence contrary to his actions. 

While the Liberal government is in a minority position, it is supported by the Green Party and a Quebec based separatist party, neither of whom want to see legally armed citizens.

It fits their agendas, that illegally armed thugs misuse  firearms in the commission of crimes in order to justify tightening the screws on legal firearm owners. That way, laws and OICs can be passed that, piecemeal, only affect certain types of legal firearm owners, while leaving criminals alone to generate more stats that firearms in the hands of the proletariat are BAD and DANGEROUS, while leaving the uneducated and unaware non-firearm owners with the feeling that "Something is Being Done!"

 

The average non firearm owner doesn't know that every Canadian holder of the Federally issued Possession and Acquisition Licence, (PAL ) for long guns and/or RPAL for handguns, is checked on the federal national CPIC system each and every day of the year, to ensure they have not done anything wrong in the preceding 24 hours.

If they have, it usually means bye-bye firearms. 

Cute Eh?

 

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Posted (edited)

CLK , years ago I used to go to the pheasant hunt on Pelee island every yr . I haven’t went in a few , guess if I go back it will have to be with the 16ga or 20 . It really sucks for you guys 

Edited by Buckshot Bob

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2020 at 3:44 AM, Warden Callaway said:

"The Remington Model 1873 Hammer Lifter is a very distinctive, one-of-a-kind design not used by any other manufacturer. "

 

I'm not sure the auction house is correct, the top lever rather resembles a William Powell lifter shotgun which was patented in England in 1864 and there is another apparent variation from England where a similar looking lever is pulled back to unlock the breech.  I dabble in English hammered doubles and all the different variations, ideas and design dead ends that led to what we consider the "modern" hammered or hammerless side by side covers decades and at least a dozen different books.181024202133151-2.thumb.jpg.bd61b04f115cb2a7e4683d09b5f23621.jpg

 

 

Edited by Chantry
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Today's progress. 

 

259260443_RemingtonLiftercracktop2May2020.jpg.116e7f58310a72d485f5957200d91218.jpg

 

I drilled a 3/8" hole 1" deep ahead of the tang screw hole where the largest cracks were and embedded a 1" long oak dowel in Acraglas. 

 

The drill bit is coated with releasing coat and there to keep hole open. 

 

I drilled a 5/16" hole 1/2" deep behind the drill bit at an angle approximating the direction of the crack and installed a dowel embedded in Acraglas. 

 

The modeling clay is there to form a dam. 

 

When the Acraglas got to a plastic stage, I pulled the drill bit and did a preliminary cleanup of excess Acraglas. As it hardens,  I'll take small rasps and make sure the tang and receiver fit.

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Well,  it's back together and looking good. 

 

144521232_RemingtonLifterafterwholeMay2020.jpg.80e346845c496a13bee19d19044c37e4.jpg

 

1621430485_RemingtonLifterafteractionMay2020.jpg.bd5f665f44e72ab45547b45fecdf91ea.jpg

 

138698795_RemingtonLifterafterbuttstockMay2020.jpg.9b7bae88821c828347a3e21f303b191b.jpg

 

Basically cleaned off a lot of grime and repaired the cracks in the stock.

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You sure worked wonders on that stock.  The rest of the gun looks good also!

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Posted (edited)

I had a mild panic attack this morning.  I went looking for my brass 10 gauge hulls and was coming up short.  I found a few empties here and then another clump there.  But still way short.  I stopped looking for a bit.  Then hit the trail again.   Ah!  A batch of loaded ones were hiding behind some other stuff. I haven't shot any 10 gauge brass hull loads in a couple of years and they got scattered. 

 

 

10 gauge brass hulls May 2020.jpg

 

21 on right are loaded. 24 on left are empty. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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Those on the left look some troublesome.  Send them to me and I'll see if I can work 'em out.  test firing for a year or three should suffice.  :rolleyes:  

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