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Jaige30-06

12 gauge magtech brass reloading question

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So I'm currently playing around with loading 12 gauge magtech brass, and I've already been successful with 50 rounds, my current formula is the (I assume) standard 3 drams BP (or BP substitute) followed by a nitro card, a fiber wad, 3 drams of birdshot, another fiber wad and an overshot card.

(patterns very well)

i was wondering if anyone has tried cutting the piston off of a plastic wad and using the shot cup to cut down on leading in the barrel (50 rounds has shown a few light streaks) , also to safely shoot steel shot.

so the load to test will go 3 drams BP, nitro card, fiber wad, plastic cup, fiber wad and an overshot card.

any concerns, issues, notes/personal experience is very much appreciated.

thank you.

(also this is my first post, so go easy on me if I'm posting in the wrong area or if I didn't go about something right)

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I do not use a fiber wad over the shot, just hot glue the overshot card over the shot.

Leading not a problem with lead shot.  There is no rifling in a shotgun barrel.

If you do use a plastic wad, you will get plastic fouling from the melting plastic.IMG_20190518_184937.thumb.jpg.aaeb09a46dd79326ad9eeb3a77c79c4f.jpg

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I found that a 10 gauge plastic shot cup wotks just fine. 

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Trooper Ozzy said:

I do not use a fiber wad over the shot, just hot glue the overshot card over the shot.

Leading not a problem with lead shot.  There is no rifling in a shotgun barrel.

If you do use a plastic wad, you will get plastic fouling from the melting plastic.

 

^^ Great Advice ^^  I use 3.7cc with nitro card over the top.  Then it's 2 each 1/2 inch fiber wads, overshot card, 1 1/8 oz shot, another overshot card.  Seal the edge of the card  with Duco Cement.  BP or Sub burn hotter than smokeless and will melt some plastic in the barrel. 

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I've used the shot cup off a plastic wad. It leaves a mess of plastic in the barrels. Believe it or not a shot cup made from construction paper works well. I dont use steel shot for a couple reasons. I dont hunt waterfowl, SASS rules dont allow for it, and it's harder on your barrels. It took several loads and trips to the range to get a load that didnt blow a hole in the pattern but it was worth the effort to eliminate steps in the loading process. I run almost exclusively magtech brass 12 ga hulls and BP. What I'm using now: federal magnum large pistol primer, either 50 gr of grafs reenactment powder or 43 gr of my homebrewed 2f, 11ga nitro card, 11ga 3/4" fiber cushion wad, 1 1/8th oz #7.5 shot, 10ga over shot card, and sealed in with 50/50 beeswax/tallow. Followed by a slight roll crimp also I've trimmed all of my brass down to 2.25" it lets them cycle through my pw87 easier. I recently started annealing my hulls. it makes it a lot easier to get that roll crimp out and get the wads back in. I've noticed i'm getting longer life out of my cases since I started annealing them. 

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I use about 1/4 of a fiber wad over shot, then a overshot card and glue it in place with water glass. The piece of fiber wad gives a little more “traction” for the overshot card to stick too. I had. Couple of shells leak the shot out. Doing this fixed that problem. 
my load Column

primer

7/8 oz by volume BP (same measure as shot) 

nitro card 

fiber wad

7/8 oz shot
1/4 fiber wad

overshot card 

waterglass 

 

knocks down everything I’ve pointed it at. 
I sometimes sub 777 for BP. I tried APP but was not as reliable knocking down targets. 

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Leaves a bunch of plastic crud in the bbl. BTDT

OLG 

 

Hot water. One push through with bore brush and bores shines like a Cadillac bumper.  SDT. (Still doing that.)  :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Hot water. One push through with bore brush and bores shines like a Cadillac bumper.  SDT. (Still doing that.)  :rolleyes:

Me 2 ^_^ Was surprised at first how much there was compared to my smokeless loads.

OLG 

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Pretty much the same ; powder, op wad, fiber wad/ lubricated wad  , shot, os wad, hot glue. With a lubricated wad , it  keeps it kind a' clean. Never used plastic wads.

Isom

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I just acquired a set of the CH4D dies! Hoping to try them out in the next week or two!

 

 I’m wondering if I could remove the decapping pin and resize all of the brass shells, (about 250) that I already have built up!  I plan to run all of them through the crimp/rolled edge die.

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I use a square load 1 oz shot dipper of Goexff  1oz of shot either 7.5 or 8 ...powder nitro card fiber wad and then shot with over shot card hot glued over the shot. But I just got from Circlefly paper shot cups. From what he told me there were good reports on how they worked. I have loaded up some but have not yet had the chance to try them out. Not sure if they are on his website  www.circlefly.com his # is 717 862-3600

 

Hochbauer

20200412_133513.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I just acquired a set of the CH4D dies! Hoping to try them out in the next week or two!

 

 I’m wondering if I could remove the decapping pin and resize all of the brass shells, (about 250) that I already have built up!  I plan to run all of them through the crimp/rolled edge die.

Blackwater, I got a set of the CH4D dies about 3 months ago.  Wow, what a difference.  They definitely resize the brass.

 

I removed the decapping pin and resized about 100 loaded shells without an issue.  You will need to lube them.  I used the Dillon lube and alcohol to remove it.  My standard routine with fired brass shells is to wet tumble clean them with stainless pins.  After they're dry, I will lube, deprime and resize, then run them through my vibration cleaner with walnut media to remove the the lube. 

 

I prime, load with 50 grains of APP followed by an 11 gauge nitro card, an 11 gauge fiber wad, 1.25 oz 7.5 lead shot and a 10 gauge overshot card.  I then roll crimp them and seal with water glass.That makes for slick, shiny brass shells the run fine for me.

Edited by Ozark Shark

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29 minutes ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

I use a square load 1 oz shot dipper of Goexff  1oz of shot either 7.5 or 8 ...powder nitro card fiber wad and then shot with over shot card hot glued over the shot. But I just got from Circlefly paper shot cups. From what he told me there were good reports on how they worked. I have loaded up some but have not yet had the chance to try them out. Not sure if they are on his website  www.circlefly.com his # is 717 862-3600

 

Hochbauer

20200412_133513.jpg

Interesting.  Please let us know how they work for you.

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39 minutes ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

I use a square load 1 oz shot dipper of Goexff  1oz of shot either 7.5 or 8 ...powder nitro card fiber wad and then shot with over shot card hot glued over the shot. But I just got from Circlefly paper shot cups. From what he told me there were good reports on how they worked. I have loaded up some but have not yet had the chance to try them out. Not sure if they are on his website  www.circlefly.com his # is 717 862-3600

 

Hochbauer

20200412_133513.jpg

 

32 minutes ago, Ozark Shark said:

Blackwater, I got a set of the CH4D dies about 3 months ago.  Wow, what a difference.  They definitely resize the brass.

 

I removed the decapping pin and resized about 100 loaded shells without an issue.  You will need to lube them.  I used the Dillon lube and alcohol to remove it.  My standard routine with fired brass shells is to wet tumble clean them with stainless pins.  After they're dry, I will lube, deprime and resize, then run them through my vibration cleaner with walnut media to remove the the lube. 

 

I prime, load with 50 grains of APP followed by an 11 gauge nitro card, an 11 gauge fiber wad, 1.25 oz 7.5 lead shot and a 10 gauge overshot card.  I then roll crimp them and seal with water glass.That makes for slick, shiny brass shells the run fine for me.

 

Thanks!!  Both of you!!! 

 

I’ve shot brass shells off and on for SEVERAL years. I even run them in my old ‘97 from time to time!

 

Been reloading them entirely by hand for the whole time.  I haven’t had any issues to speak of, except for a glue failure that resulted in the shot rolling down the barrel a time or two on one small batch of shells.

 

 I usually assembled similar loads to what you describe, but once in a while I’ll load up some 70gr. boomers!!

 

 I also have a box of 25 10ga. shells and want to build up another 50 or so. If the CH4D dies perform the way I expect, I’ll be looking to get a set for 10ga.

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3 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

 

Thanks!!  Both of you!!! 

 

I’ve shot brass shells off and on for SEVERAL years. I even run them in my old ‘97 from time to time!

 

Been reloading them entirely by hand for the whole time.  I haven’t had any issues to speak of, except for a glue failure that resulted in the shot rolling down the barrel a time or two on one small batch of shells.

 

 I usually assembled similar loads to what you describe, but once in a while I’ll load up some 70gr. boomers!!

 

 I also have a box of 25 10ga. shells and want to build up another 50 or so. If the CH4D dies perform the way I expect, I’ll be looking to get a set for 10ga.

I used to run much larger charges in my shotgun, but found I was blowing the center out when I patterned those loads.  I know others that have no issue with 60 or 70 grains.  For my gun, the 50 grains patterns well and my misses have gone down.

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My hammer double will pattern about a silver dollar sized spot at twenty yards from the left barrel and only slightly larger from the right.  Most folks say that little gun kicks like a draft jackass, but it doesn’t bother me.  The heavier load still holds a tight pattern, but it makes a much bigger boom and four foot and longer flames. So when I’m in the mood to really smoke it up.....

 

The ‘97 I use ‘em in is an original Winchester solid frame from 1906 with a cylinder bore and shortened to 18”!!  It’s had the forcing cone reconfigured and the chamber reamed for modern 2 3/4” shells!  I use the lighter 50-55gr loads in it!!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I just acquired a set of the CH4D dies! Hoping to try them out in the next week or two!

 

 I’m wondering if I could remove the decapping pin and resize all of the brass shells, (about 250) that I already have built up!  I plan to run all of them through the crimp/rolled edge die.

Yes, also try your roll crimp ahead of time. I had to make an adjustment on my 10 ga rollcrimp. My original Winchester 1887 needed a slightly shorter length hull to cycle cleanly than the die would roll crimp. I machined the die a little shorter to accommodate that. 

IMG_5267.JPG

Edited by Trooper Ozzy

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I just ordered some of those paper shot cups to test out alongside the plastic modified cups I talked about, but I should've mentioned earlier on that I'm planning to go see a friend up north and hunt waterfowl, so The cups are necessary for non toxic shot, and even though there's ALOT of good factory waterfowl ammo out there, I've reloaded for so long I feel more comfortable shooting my own reloads, so the shot cup issue i started with seems to be solved, now any good load suggestions for waterfowl in brass shotshells? And also would it be best to invest in the CH4D 12 gauge die set, I'm currently using the RCBS die set

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I've read some of you want to roll crimp, if you're looking for a roll crimper send me a PM, got a couple of them.  I'm using a SxS and didn't see enough of a benefit during loading them in the chambers by roll crimping compared to the difficulty getting wads past the crimp when reloading them.

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2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I've read some of you want to roll crimp, if you're looking for a roll crimper send me a PM, got a couple of them.  I'm using a SxS and didn't see enough of a benefit during loading them in the chambers by roll crimping compared to the difficulty getting wads past the crimp when reloading them.

 

I pushed my shells into a Mec reloader  just far enough to start the roll or taper crimp.  Only had to do it once.   Do not think there is enough pressure to straighten the slight roll out and it does not interfere with reloading new wads.  Sure does make loading the SG easier however

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11 minutes ago, Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 said:

 

I pushed my shells into a Mec reloader  just far enough to start the roll or taper crimp.  Only had to do it once.   Do not think there is enough pressure to straighten the slight roll out and it does not interfere with reloading new wads.  Sure does make loading the SG easier however

 

I'm glad it works for you.  I rolled mine on an antique bench mounted roller, I was surprised how easy it was to get a slight roll.  When reloading I'm using 11 gauge cards/wads and the fiber wads were leaving a big mess.  

 

I use my MEC to prime, then the ram to pack things down, and the shot measure to get 1 1/8 oz of shot without having to use a scale.  I am de-priming and adding powder by hand.

 

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17 hours ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

I use a square load 1 oz shot dipper of Goexff  1oz of shot either 7.5 or 8 ...powder nitro card fiber wad and then shot with over shot card hot glued over the shot. But I just got from Circlefly paper shot cups. From what he told me there were good reports on how they worked. I have loaded up some but have not yet had the chance to try them out. Not sure if they are on his website  www.circlefly.com his # is 717 862-3600

 

Hochbauer

20200412_133513.jpg

Where did you find the shot cups? I've always gotten my circle fly wads from track of the wolf. I havent seen them on there. didnt see them on his website either. 

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Blackwater, howdy. If you use a crimp/rolled edge die , doesn't that make it harder to put the wads down the case ??  Don't think shooting will straighten the crimp out like plastic cases. 

Isom

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Hmm, wish I'd seen those paper shot cups last week.  I just ordered 500 more Claybuster red wads :)

 

However, I am still thinking "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".   The plastic has always come out of my bores (TTN and Baikal) very easily.  My load for brass and for plastic hulls is almost the same.  In plastic (Remington STS or Nitro) hull it is about 60gr FFg Goex (slightly less than full 4.3cc dipper), red wad, 1 1/8 oz shot.  In brass hulls, I add an 11ga over powder nitro card before the red wad, and of course the overshot thin card on top (11ga, also, although 10ga would fit tighter there) glued with Elmers wood glue.  

 

In modern shotguns, plastic wads are said to get better patterns than fiber wads.  They do in mine.  YMMV.

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2 hours ago, Isom Dart, SASS#8096 said:

Blackwater, howdy. If you use a crimp/rolled edge die , doesn't that make it harder to put the wads down the case ??  Don't think shooting will straighten the crimp out like plastic cases. 

Isom

Just don't overcrimp it.

kR

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9 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

I'm glad it works for you.  I rolled mine on an antique bench mounted roller, I was surprised how easy it was to get a slight roll.  When reloading I'm using 11 gauge cards/wads and the fiber wads were leaving a big mess.  

 

I use my MEC to prime, then the ram to pack things down, and the shot measure to get 1 1/8 oz of shot without having to use a scale.  I am de-priming and adding powder by hand.

 

 

Do believe that loading BP is not even close to rocket science as some would have you believe providing you follow a few basic guide lines.  I have notice that through the years we all seem to end up about the same place on loads used no matter where we started or region of the country.  Like I stated not rocket science.

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