Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Chicken George*

Ejection Problem

Recommended Posts

I'm having an ejection problem on our 1873. Gun works fine until you go at a decent speed and then the empties seem to be getting caught with the rim behind the carrier. Seems to be every 2 or 3 shots when lever fast. 20190128_191215.thumb.jpg.59279d29e12175001c7d54c16acd73f9.jpg

I recently upgraded to an aluminum carrier and it seemed to shoot fine but we didn't shoot it too much before the mainspring broke. After replacing that we noticed the problem. The timing looks perfect to me. As the next round comes up, the rim barely kisses the lower bolt tab. I don't know how the mainspring could affect it but I tried adjusting that differently with no difference. Not sure where to go from here. I don't want to send it in because we are are trying to prep for WR. 

 

Update: I forgot to mention that the ejector and bolt tab look good. I pulled them off, cleaned and adjusted them and put them back on and that didn't help. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cut a small bevel on the carrier were the case is touching in your pictures. This will help the case slide off. Very little goes a long way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your problem is the carrier you replaced. It is thicker and begins to move sooner than the old one. The bolt 'kicks' out the case as it recesses into the receiver. Your carrier gets up there before this happens.  You can take something off the top, or you can correct it from below. I prefer the latter as that is where the timing issue is occurring first. This may prevent other issues from happening. The lifter arm can be modified, but I would adjust the Alu Carrier as you have a replacement (the original) if you mess it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put the old carrier back in and run it.  If the problem goes away, you know you have to adjust the new carrier.  If it doesn't, you have something else going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Snake-Eye.  Here is an aluminum carrier in one of my ‘73s.  Bevel the area in contact with the case rim at the rear of the carrier.   You need to give the rim room enough to rotate and slip out from under the extractor.  Don’t go crazy, remove a bit and test frequently.

 

AD519FF9-0E45-4490-8983-3ABA7CB5940B.thumb.jpeg.5c4ad1896ce7016a2f4e313124e14dd3.jpeg

 

EBC5F4A4-7229-4CF3-865B-AFD53F93248E.thumb.jpeg.252d3bd6f9431b25913a7a23a8d20aa6.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My aluminum carrier looks just like this and works fine.  Ugly, but works fine!

33 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I agree with Snake-Eye.  Here is an aluminum carrier in one of my ‘73s.  Bevel the area in contact with the case rim at the rear of the carrier.   You need to give the rim room enough to rotate and slip out from under the extractor.  Don’t go crazy, remove a bit and test frequently.

 

AD519FF9-0E45-4490-8983-3ABA7CB5940B.thumb.jpeg.5c4ad1896ce7016a2f4e313124e14dd3.jpeg

 

EBC5F4A4-7229-4CF3-865B-AFD53F93248E.thumb.jpeg.252d3bd6f9431b25913a7a23a8d20aa6.jpeg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

My aluminum carrier looks just like this and works fine.  Ugly, but works fine!

 

 

Crude but effective has always been my motto!  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As above,  the reason you are having problems is that the new carrier is not beveled at the rear shelf top surface, so as to allow the rim to twist upward and out.   Compare your old carrier to the new one, bevel about the same. 

 

Here's photos of a couple of carriers in my 73 .45 Colt guns::

 

73 carrier bevel 1.jpg

73 carrier bevel 2.jpg

Notice I filed a little extra bevel on the second carrier to ensure clean ejection (first aluminum carrier came from Pioneer Gunworks, second from Cowboys and Indian shop).

 

 

BTW - The EXTRACTOR is what has the hook over the top of the rim.  Your post mentions the "ejector" looking good.  You are talking about the extractor.  The "ejector" on a 73 is the back edge of the top shelf of the carrier!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

PLUS ONE to Garrison Joe.  However, there is a CAVEAT !!!!  With the new Aluminum Carrier (I personally dislike those greatly) your rifle is out of time.  You mentioned, the case rim is just touching the lower cartridge rim tab.  The case rim should NOT touch the rim tab AT ALL.  The bolt Should fully retract into the frame just as the cartridge rim reaches it.  Timing needs adjusted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I agree with Snake-Eye.  Here is an aluminum carrier in one of my ‘73s.  Bevel the area in contact with the case rim at the rear of the carrier.   You need to give the rim room enough to rotate and slip out from under the extractor.  Don’t go crazy, remove a bit and test frequently.

 

 

There are at least 4 (I think possibly 5) different aluminum carriers sold in the US. One needs this mod, the others do not. The brand of short stroke kit also effects the way these things time and the rate if breech bolt "withdrawal" at a critical point in cycling the rifle relative to the carrier movement. 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

 

There are at least 4 (I think possibly 5) different aluminum carriers sold in the US. One needs this mod, the others do not. The brand of short stroke kit also effects the way these things time and the rate if breech bolt "withdrawal" at a critical point in cycling the rifle relative to the carrier movement. 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that the OP is having the ejection problem seems to indicate he has a carrier that needs the modification.  Or if you are suggesting that he buy a new aluminum carrier, could you please tell him (and the rest of us) which brands do not need the modification?  Or are you suggesting that he install a different short stroke kit to solve his problem?  It’s not clear to me what you are recommending to the OP to help him with his problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really appreciate all the responses! I had actually thought that filing the carrier would work but was nervous to do so. I appreciate having pictures to go by. My new carrier is from Cowboys and Indians, which is the one Garrison Joe said that he had to modify. So that must be the one that needs this mod. I didn't get a chance to do anything yet and will post after I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys!! Worked like a charm! Got it fixed last night and we shot it a lot today without a hiccup. I actually had to take off a lot more than I thought. But with that bevel cut and a slight adjustment to the timing, it is running better than ever. Thanks again!! 

 

CG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GREAT pictures by Chicken George, J-Bar and Garrison Joe.  Right to the point and very descriptive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I now think the problems with the short stroke kits and the after market carriers should be investigated more thoroughly. They all cost good money and some are apparently better than others. We should look out for our brother shooters with up to date information if you have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, DDD, SASS 28309 said:

some are apparently better than others. We should look out for our brother shooters with up to date information if you have it.

I appreciate what you are suggesting as I am someone who reads as many reviews as possible before making purchases. But I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from this experience. This gun has had an extreme amount of use and wear and has had to be overhauled a couple times. There is a good chance the carrier would be a drop in fit on most guns.

 

All guns are different and I wouldn't fault a part because it needed to be fitted for the gun. If I were to buy another carrier I would probably get it from Cowboys and Indians again. I know Jim Bowie has made many tweaks and improvements on their carriers over the years which have allowed it to work better with less wear on it and other parts and prevent issues found in some "problem guns". 

 

I have had good experiences with other parts from Cowboys and Indians also. I have been extremely impressed with their short stroke kits. I started out with a kit from a different company (I'm not going to say what company) and the tack welds on the toggle pivot points all cracked, one toggle seized up and the lifter arm wore completely down where the lifter spring rubs on it. It was always well oiled too. When grinding on the lifter arm to adjust the timing, I could tell it wasn't made with very strong steel. The Cowboy and Indians short stroke kits that I have and have used for a lot longer period than the other company's kit have had no issues and when I have ground on them, it is easy to tell that they are made from a lot harder steel. 

 

I appreciate knowing when someone has found a great quality part or service but I don't think it is a good idea to point out a company for having something bad. From my experience, we have many amazing gunsmiths and companies providing parts for SASS. I hate to say one is better than another as I believe all have their strengths. I think they all are a benefit to our game. I hesitate to call out someone even if I have a bad experience with something. Maybe bad ammo or another gun issue caused a part to fail or somehow they made a rare mistake. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and their parts and services will improve over time if we give them the chance. 

 

CG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post, however I don't agree with your logic on letting bad parts continue to be sold to our fellow SASS shooters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hollywood Dave
On 1/30/2019 at 8:31 AM, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

There are at least 4 (I think possibly 5) different aluminum carriers sold in the US. One needs this mod, the others do not. The brand of short stroke kit also effects the way these things time and the rate if breech bolt "withdrawal" at a critical point in cycling the rifle relative to the carrier movement. 

Yes, what names are these four or 5 brands. 

Please. 

I had the same carrier problem. 

I went back to stock from the PGW kit and it worked. 

I changed to a new aluminum PGW carrier and it worked out of the box. 

Im good for awhile. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been using C&I parts and have been very satisfied.  But I run brass carriers.   Prefer the function of brass and not fast enough to tell the difference.    GW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hollywood Dave said:

Yes, what names are these four or 5 brands. 

Please. 

I had the same carrier problem. 

I went back to stock from the PGW kit and it worked. 

I changed to a new aluminum PGW carrier and it worked out of the box. 

Im good for awhile. 

 

H. Dave,

I can understand your desire to know, but ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Being a dealer/manufacturer myself, I do not believe it is appropriate to mention other manufactures in a disparaging way on the Wire or any place else.

And,,,,, I'm sure there are those who would disagree with my opinions.

Sincerely,

Palo Verde 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't want to say poor parts or poor installation!    If you switch one part from rifle to rifle it will change how it runs.  Rifles are all different.   Parts no matter how well made need to be fit to that particular rifle.   If one brand was better we would all be running the same.  IMHO   Thanks for listening      GW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here for reference is a factory (brass) carrier on an unfired 73 in .45 Colt.  This one was produced about 2013 or so.

 

There's a significant bevel on the lower step of the carrier top.   On this one, it's rounded over, not a straight "plane" of a bevel.   Photo does not show how it's almost a 1/4" diameter rounded profile.

 

However you keep the rim free to twist out from under the extractor will usually work.

 

937208848_factory73carrierbevel.jpg.deb48318cb26fd509f7156036d70aaba.jpg

 

Good luck, GJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hollywood Dave

I’m sorry I’m a rookie to this game. I mistyped. I just wanted to know the other brands of aluminum carriers in case I ever needed to shop. The carrier was not the cause of my gun not running but a new carrier corrected the problem for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hollywood Dave.

Is there a reason you prefer the 'Aluminum' carrier?

 

I know a couple very good smiths who prefer using Brass carriers when they set up 73's.

 

Just want to make sure you don't overlook good Brass carriers.

 

Just a thought...

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hollywood Dave

Hi Widder,

no,  you are right, I have a Miroku with an aluminum in right now but I have the factory brass. That would have to be modified to be used with a short stroke kit rod correct ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Hollywood Dave said:

Hi Widder,

no,  you are right, I have a Miroku with an aluminum in right now but I have the factory brass. That would have to be modified to be used with a short stroke kit rod correct ?

 

I can't say for sure on yours, and not all short stroke kits are the same, but I do know that for a Cowboy and Indian SS kit, the stock Uberti brass carrier needs to be opened up some inside where the wider front section narrows, as shown here:

http://cowboysandindianstore.com/pdf/Brass_carrier_fitting_instructions.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.