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P and two misses unless gag was declared inoperta, plus the big thing here is to replace the to for a more alert helping to

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Say what???

 

 

P and two misses unless gag was declared inoperta, plus the big thing here is to replace the to for a more alert helping to

 

Let me translate - P and two misses unless gun was declared inoperable plus the big thing here is to replace the Timer Operator (TO) for a more alert and helping one.

 

 

Not agreeing with it, just translating.

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It's nice when the TO saves yer butt, but if you depend on him to fix all your mistakes - yer in for some disappointing stages.

Man up when you mess up & thank the TOs for their work.

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It's nice when the TO saves yer butt, but if you depend on him to fix all your mistakes - yer in for some disappointing stages.

Man up when you mess up & thank the TOs for their work.

 

+1000

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Sometimes... I just wonder how many matches some folks have actually shot.

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The way I see it is, a P was earned when the shooter bypassed shooting the shotgun the 2nd time for no apparent reason. At the end of the stage. the shooter was assessed 2-5 second penalties for 2 unfired rounds.

Misses did not cause a P as the P was earned before the 2-5 second penalties...Yes?

 

Fillmore

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The way I see it is, a P was earned when the shooter bypassed shooting the shotgun the 2nd time for no apparent reason. At the end of the stage. the shooter was assessed 2-5 second penalties for 2 unfired rounds.

Misses did not cause a P as the P was earned before the 2-5 second penalties...Yes?

 

Fillmore

As soon as he fired a shot from second pistol.

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As soon as he fired a shot from second pistol.

More specifically, you are correct.

 

Fillmore

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If a shooter doesn't bring enough shells to the firing line to meet the stage requirement, stage calls for six and shooter only brings five, calling a miss and a P at your local club is going to be a hard sell to your average shooters

 

....................so you want to be a TO?

<_< I want a raise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If a shooter doesn't bring enough shells to the firing line to meet the stage requirement, stage calls for six and shooter only brings five, calling a miss and a P at your local club is going to be a hard sell to your average shooters

 

....................so you want to be a TO?

<_< I want a raise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No problem being the TO. One of the duties of a TO is to check out the shooter for SG shells, glasses, ear plugs, understanding the stage and so forth. still on the shooter to have them.

 

I don't believe I've personally witness this situation, but apparently it does happen.

 

Now, since vast majority of stages are 10-10-4, about the only way someone would come to the line w/o enough SG shells would be if he forgot to load up his one and only SG slide. People that use SG belts usually have at least 4 left in their belt.

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I appreciate all that replied and I got an answer that settles it . So any further discussion is just that . Using the OP stage . If a shooter goes to the line with the necessary amount of SG shells and shoots two targets at pos A then on the way to setting his SG down at pos B he knocks his needed shells on to the ground . Then he shoots his rifle and doesn't bother to touch his SG because he knows the needed shells are on the ground and proceeds strait to pos C and shoots his pistols . Two misses . Same exact stage is shot but second shooter doesn't touch his SG because he forgot to shoot remaining targets . Two misses and a P . Both shooter error but one gets a P and one doesn't . Just so we're clear I'm not saying the first shooter should get a P .

I can't believe I've got no takers.
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I can't believe I've got no takers.

P either way for failure to attempt to fire a firearm.

 

The way I see it, with a split shotgun with another gun in between, each separate shotgun string would count as a firearm as far as the rules go.

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I'm thinking if the stage is a stand and del and the sequence is shoot two SG targets then shoot rifle then two more SG then pistol. So the shooter forgets and shoots all four SG at the beginning. Well that would be shooting your guns out of order and for most everybody that would be faster so a P for that makes sense. But if some one forgets to shoot a gun or drops all their ammo the penalty is built in with the misses. I know that's not how the rules work but as Wyatt said this ain't going to go over well with many. Disclaimer : this is just food for thought. If your not hungry feel free to move along.

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P either way for failure to attempt to fire a firearm.

 

The way I see it, with a split shotgun with another gun in between, each separate shotgun string would count as a firearm as far as the rules go.

How do you attempt to fire a gun with no ammo. In PWBs post he did not say if you ran out of ammo you need to fake it to avoid a P.
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What happened to all these stories I've heard about people only having one pistol so they would just take five misses per stage?

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You know the shoorter could have safely staged his/her pistols and then ran back to their cart for shells. Much more comical than pointing the SG and yelling "BANG BANG". Really wakes up the rest of the posse when the shooter runs away from the firing line in the middle of the stage. :lol::lol: :lol:

 

Not that I have any first hand knowledge of said activities. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:

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What happened to all these stories I've heard about people only having one pistol so they would just take five misses per stage?

 

What stories? If a club is allowing a shooter to "compete" using only one pistol, they're not following SASS rules anyway.

 

You know the shoorter could have safely staged his/her pistols and then ran back to their cart for shells. Much more comical than pointing the SG and yelling "BANG BANG". Really wakes up the rest of the posse when the shooter runs away from the firing line in the middle of the stage. :lol::lol: :lol:

 

Not that I have any first hand knowledge of said activities. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:

 

...but I DO.

 

:ph34r:

 

FWIW - the "P" for "failure to stage guns or ammo..." is very RARELY (if ever) assessed for neglecting to bring AMMO to a stage.

It is generally applied for mis-staging guns or ammo (e.g. supposed to be on a prop, instead of holstered...or ammo in a box instead of belt loops).

Both easily remedied "on the clock" & "unassisted" by proper staging before actual use on the stage.

 

Not saying that's right or fair...most T/Os are hesitant to add the additional penalty to that for the unfired round(s).

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What happened to all these stories I've heard about people only having one pistol so they would just take five misses per stage?

 

Well, most likely the match director agreed to a rules variation in that case.

 

Most Wanted - heck I don't know just trying to make sense of it. The shooter has to be responsible for having enough ammo, stage calls for 4 plus and ya only take 4 you are taking a risk.

 

In trying to think of an example where no ammo doesn't get you a P, only thing I can think of is a rifle that the shooter forgot to load, they get up lever click lever click, oh crap. Always been scored as misses only that I've seen, but there was an attempt to fire it.

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So........a Miss can't cause a P, but a P can result in a Miss, sorry, 5 second penalty for unfired rounds

 

Got it :wacko:

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So, let me get this right.....

 

1) Stage calls for 6 shotgun. Shooter brings 4 to the line. Hits 4 targets......1 - P and 2 - 5 sec penalties for unfired rounds = 20 seconds of penalties.

 

2) Shooter forgets to load both pistols and comes to the line with unloaded pistols (1st gun is not pistol). Rather than stage his pistols at the line, run back to the cart, retrieve rounds, return to line and load......shooter decides to take what they think is a 50 second penalty. Penalty really isn't 50 seconds but is 60 seconds because of the P.

 

3) Same as #2 but with the rifle.

 

Is this correct?

 

BTW, until this thread, I'd never heard of anyone getting a P for any of the above.

 

CS

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So........a Miss can't cause a P, but a P can result in a Miss, sorry, 5 second penalty for unfired rounds

 

Got it :wacko:

 

That's always been the case...where have you been shooting??

<_<

 

Examples (not all-encompassing or exclusive):

Shooter gets out of order, skips a target in the sequence, and ends up on the correct target for the last shot.

That is also the basis for the dreaded "Trifecta" if the shooter leaves the round in a long gun upon being "discarded" before firing the next gun of the stage = P/"miss"/MSV = 25 seconds.

 

"Miss cannot cause a P":

Best example is two targets 30 feet apart.

Shooter is to start on the RIGHT target; fires first shot at the LEFT target, but MISSES it.

No "P" for "engaging out of order" if he failed to HIT the wrong target (as long as he gets back to the correct order once he starts hitting the targets).

 

Please send $5 for this RO refresher course to:

PWB

PO BOX 31

STAYTON, OR

97383-0031

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So, let me get this right.....

 

1) Stage calls for 6 shotgun. Shooter brings 4 to the line. Hits 4 targets......1 - P and 2 - 5 sec penalties for unfired rounds = 20 seconds of penalties.

 

2) Shooter forgets to load both pistols and comes to the line with unloaded pistols (1st gun is not pistol). Rather than stage his pistols at the line, run back to the cart, retrieve rounds, return to line and load......shooter decides to take what they think is a 50 second penalty. Penalty really isn't 50 seconds but is 60 seconds because of the P.

 

3) Same as #2 but with the rifle.

 

Is this correct?

 

BTW, until this thread, I'd never heard of anyone getting a P for any of the above.

 

CS

 

Ref post #s 65 & 88

 

The rule exists...it is almost NEVER applied under those circumstances.

 

Bottom line is ALWAYS bring enough ammo to complete the stage...failure to do so will result in penalties.

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Just for fun (I think this thread should make at least 5 pages :P ) back to what Grizz said almost in jest earlier. Pointing the gun at the targets and saying: BANG,BANG. Reading the SASS definition of "ENGAGED"

 

Engaged - Attempting to fire a round at a target RO1 page 30

 

Does that remove the "P" ????

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That's always been the case...where have you been shooting??

<_<

 

 

Please send $5 for this RO refresher course to:

PWB

PO BOX 31

STAYTON, OR

97383-0031

 

That's why I lurk..................to get edgejamacated

 

Check for $25 will be in the mail this week.............I figure I owe for some in the past and paying in advance for the next few

 

I want see you cash a check made out to PWB :lol:

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Seen people without enough shells, point shotgun go Bang Bang, only missis counted they engaged target with correct gun! the original post states that the shooter skipped the 2nd. shotgun string that is why P and 2 missis should be assessed. just as PWB stated!

Rafe

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Sedalia Dave, on 05 May 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

 

You know the shoorter could have safely staged his/her pistols and then ran back to their cart for shells. Much more comical than pointing the SG and yelling "BANG BANG". Really wakes up the rest of the posse when the shooter runs away from the firing line in the middle of the stage.

 

 

 

Not that I have any first hand knowledge of said activities. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:

....but I DO

I can just imagine the reaction from the peanut gallery seeing you dash to your cart for SG shells. Based on all the ribbing I got you should have charged admission.

 

BTW the idea to run back to the cart was put into my brain bucket only a few days earlier because I read a WTC where the shooter ran back to their cart for shells. I figured the trip to the cart and back was better than 4 misses. Kind of left the TO speachless for a secondor two when I turned and ran the wrong way. :lol::lol::lol:

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Just for fun (I think this thread should make at least 5 pages :P ) back to what Grizz said almost in jest earlier. Pointing the gun at the targets and saying: BANG,BANG. Reading the SASS definition of "ENGAGED"

 

Engaged - Attempting to fire a round at a target RO1 page 30

 

Does that remove the "P" ????

 

YES...it would remove any "P" for failure to attempt to fire a firearm

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That's why I lurk..................to get edgejamacated

 

Check for $25 will be in the mail this week.............I figure I owe for some in the past and paying in advance for the next few

 

I want see you cash a check made out to PWB :lol:

 

FWIW - USPS, UPS, FEDEX and numerous local banks recognize me under that ID.

Cashing checks isn't a problem (except for one bank with which I no longer do business)

 

;)

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Ref post #s 65 & 88

 

The rule exists...it is almost NEVER applied under those circumstances.

 

Bottom line is ALWAYS bring enough ammo to complete the stage...failure to do so will result in penalties.

 

 

Thanks PW, I appreciate the reply.

 

That's why I'll almost never apply it under those circumstances.

 

 

Wyatt put it in print that he was gonna send you $25.....I'd hold him to it.....really ought to be $50. ;)

 

CS

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Posted Today, 11:53 AM

Happy Jack, SASS #20451, on 05 May 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:snapback.png

Just for fun (I think this thread should make at least 5 pages :P ) back to what Grizz said almost in jest earlier. Pointing the gun at the targets and saying: BANG,BANG. Reading the SASS definition of "ENGAGED"

 

Engaged - Attempting to fire a round at a target RO1 page 30

 

Does that remove the "P" ????

 

YES...it would remove any "P" for failure to attempt to fire a firearm

 

 

In this regard, could shooter argue that they didn't miss? If benefit of doubt goes to shooter, tell me where I missed? Did I hit the dirt under the target? Or over it? Left? Or right?

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Posted Today, 11:53 AM

Happy Jack, SASS #20451, on 05 May 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:snapback.png

 

YES...it would remove any "P" for failure to attempt to fire a firearm

 

 

In this regard, could shooter argue that they didn't miss? If benefit of doubt goes to shooter, tell me where I missed? Did I hit the dirt under the target? Or over it? Left? Or right?

 

 

Try that & let us know how it works out for ya.

 

:P

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Reminds me of the time a Frontiersman shooter ran out of BP on the last stage of a match and just capped his revolvers with no powder or bullet.

We all knew it as he went "pop" then yelled "DING!" for each shot.

Spotters called three misses. (JK!)

 

When he was done, I asked him if he had any extra shotgun ammo.

 

Think about that one.

 

;)

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Reminds me of the time a Frontiersman shooter ran out of BP on the last stage of a match and just capped his revolvers with no powder or bullet.

We all knew it as he went "pop" then yelled "DING!" for each shot.

Spotters called three misses. (JK!)

 

When he was done, I asked him if he had any extra shotgun ammo.

 

Think about that one.

 

;)

 

Cut open shotgun shell and harvest powder. And I'm not even a BP shooter.

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