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Vance Montana

Should EOT have an onsite Ambulance for Emergencies?

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Went to medical tent two medics not qualified to do anything buy give me oxygen took 15 to 20 minutes for fire dept medics to get there and give me nitro another 20 minutes before ambulance came

Do your local clubs have medical services available on site?

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This is a great post. I've been on large construction projects with hundreds of workers and we did not have an ambulance on site, just first aid kit and a couple guys with limited training. I don't know much about local volunteer EMT's. Couldn't they just park the ambulance along with a crew on site and the host club could feed the guys, let them enjoy the show, and treat them like we like to be treated. Then give the local FD a healthy donation.

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Do your local clubs have medical services available on site?

Not sure that is comparing apples to apples....a local club shooting say a monthly with 50-60 shooters at best, or even an annual with 150-200 shooters, vs the Mecca of the sport, EOT with close to 600 shooters......might not be a fair comparison......just saying not much compares to EOT, even the IDPA national match last year I believe had less than 200 shooters.....might be wrong on that, my memory aint perfect lol

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Had heart attack at Winter Range a year ago took 40 minutes for ambulance to get there 10 minute ride to hospital can say for sure will never go to Winter Range again

Had a heart arrhythmia come on at Winter Range 2013. Walked a short distance to the medic's tent, they took care of me (following my instructions), and they had the ambulance crew on the grounds in 15 minutes. No complaints. Have since had an ablation of a nerve circuit in the heart which fixed the occasional fast heart rate. Glad they were there, and they provided great service.

 

That much service (medics/nurse available, and ambulance or helicopter available on call, with helipad laid out and well marked) is what seems appropriate, for both WR and EOT.

 

I'm trained in Wilderness First Response, CPR, and have worked a long time ago as an ambulance crew member. It would not be cheap at all to have a posted ambulance. It would be pretty cheap, but would require trained users and known good maintenance and testing, to keep a defibrillator ready to go at EOT. I have asked several times for one to be on-site at Founders Ranch for both EOT, smaller SASS matches and four clubs shooting there on monthly basis. And training is very simple with the new units. And I am current on defibrillator training. This isn't a new idea at all - more of a cost versus benefit decision at this point.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Not sure that is comparing apples to apples....a local club shooting say a monthly with 50-60 shooters at best, or even an annual with 150-200 shooters, vs the Mecca of the sport, EOT with close to 600 shooters......might not be a fair comparison......just saying not much compares to EOT, even the IDPA national match last year I believe had less than 200 shooters.....might be wrong on that, my memory aint perfect lol

Heart attacks...and other medical issues don't know nor care how many participants are in the match.

 

I find it interesting that folks would avoid WR and other such matches because there were no on sight EMT's...or ambulances...when they willingly attend their monthlies without such services. And frankly, their monthly club shoots probably have far less services then WR...or EOT.

 

Oh, and yes, I understand the attendance difference between WR/EoT/etc,etc. ;)

 

Phantom

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I am the CDSO (Collateral Duty Safety Officer) for a field office of a Federal Agency. We are across the street from a local fire station (5 minute response time). Still, all of our staff are First Aid, CPR and AED trained.

 

Definitely. IF an AED is not available, one should be.

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The heli pad is a good idea

Cept for the dust, and scarin small animals, that would take a lot of loads of gravel

 

I was in the desert when my friend had to be medivac'd outta there on the dry lake bed - the ambulance and a water truck showed up before the helicopter and watered it down - no problem.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I am the CDSO (Collateral Duty Safety Officer) for a field office of a Federal Agency. We are across the street from a local fire station (5 minute response time). Still, all of our staff are First Aid, CPR and AED trained.

 

Definitely. IF an AED is not available, one should be.

 

 

I am the CDSO (Collateral Duty Safety Officer) for a field office of a Federal Agency. We are across the street from a local fire station (5 minute response time). Still, all of our staff are First Aid, CPR and AED trained.

 

Definitely. IF an AED is not available, one should be.

 

To not have several AED's at a match that size is almost criminal

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I was at a rodeo in Fergus County, Montana a few years back. A rider was injured and taken, by ambulance, to the hospital in Lewistown, MT. The rodeo was then left with no ambulance and put on hold for more than an hour waiting for the required ambulance to return.

 

I'm thinking a required ambulance, an accident taking that ambulance away, and the resultant wait to have an ambulance return would create a real crises for those responsible for keeping things on schedule.

 

If we do require an ambulance at EOT, we need to consider this problem and have some contingency that allows the match to continue.

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Doesn't hurt to plan for yourself in case of emergency instead of relying on others. At all matches I go to I carry my trauma kit with me in the event of a GSW and my son and I both know how to use it if the unthinkable happens. It mounts easily to our cart and is simply there just in case. Contains trauma bandages, tourniquet and bloodstoppers like celox or quikclot. In my truck I have a more extensive kit for snakebite and additional trauma bandages and several OTC medicines and bandaids for lesser emergencies.

 

I used to be involved with motorcycle races and was responsible for the ambulance service on site...It was expensive and you had to mostly go with a private ambulance service (maybe of questionable abilities) as the cities around you could not spare possibly their own ambulance for two days, but it was required to run the races and we had no choice. (It was also our BIGGEST expense)

 

AED's are nice but they are still expensive and you still need to have minimal training with them.

 

I also carry this trauma kit with me at work as it offers more than what I was supplied by a municipal government. It also goes with me on my motorcycle and on all trips. for less than $150 you can be prepared for GSW's or bad lacerations.

http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/item/02172PA/LE-KITS/-Individual-Operator-Kit-%28LEMK-IO%29-

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How much is a life worth?

No one can give a true cost as a direct answer to your question

 

Current world human life population is 7 billion

Cost to have onsite ambulance for all

Just folks in the USA

Just for folks over 60

Just for folks with premedical conditions etc?

Yikes

 

I am NOT saying that EOT should NOT have an ambulance

I am not saying that EOT should not have an ambulance

Repeat

 

I am asking the 500 attendees +- how much extra are you willing to pay added to the current shoot fee

$20, $30, $40 each shooter, etc because believe it or not, that is still what it will boil down to

In summery for me it sounds like EOT has a pretty good system for first aid in place already, and I am sure improvements are considered and implemented all the time

 

Someone on the wire mentioned possible litigation problems if no ambulance was provided, wow

Why don't we just break each and every CAS club with that kind of thought process right here and now

 

If you wish to be within x amount of response time to a 911 call or your life alert button, for help, then just do your home work and stay within your comfort zone

Revenues are down every where that I know of, expecting more out of limited revenues might be hard to achieve

 

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

Just my humble opinion, that's all

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IMO WR and EOT are two different animals. WR is host on state land at a state range which should have policies in place weather the accident or incident occurs in the WR range or the state range. WR is in a populated area with first responders close by. Every time it was there Sherriff office had a command post in the parking lot. WR is accessible by hi way up to the exit less than a mile from the gates.

 

On the other hand EOT is held on private land in the rural area of nm. The security is by volunteers and no suck so command post. Access to the ranch normally is by secondary to trishidary roads so the fastest access for medical will be a life flight hello. Even if an ambulance was on site in a life threating situation an hello will be sent to transport.

 

I agree a defibulator should be part of the first aide equipment at the ranch the few hundred spent on it would well be worth it if it was me in charge. I would hate to live with the fact that someone died on my watch because I was to cheap to buy a defibulator for the aging customers in an physical event. In higher than normal altitudes and warmer than most are used to. The environmental factors of EOT are not what most shooters are used to. It's drier, hotter and higher than most see on their worst day at home. Each of these factors can add to an aging illness very quietly and without notice until the event happens.

 

Not knowing the full first responders procedures setup for event at the ranch I don't feel qualified to condemn or question them. But, knowing the ones in charge and their vast experience in hosting these events that they have it covered.

 

From attending this years EOT and past eats I've noticed a difference in attitude for the event it center more on the shooter now than making money. Which is where I think it should be. Iirc I heard read somewhere that EOT is where the wb gets their funds for their retirement accounts after expenses this may not be true but if it is I think they are learning that there is more money in volume than is charging more. Where else do you get 7 days of shooting, a few free meals, constant entertainment for a mere $250 the shoot it all price for cowboy this year. Add another $75 for 4 more days of wild bunch shooting and another $100 for dry camping during the 10 days and you got more value than anywhere else.

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OK.

I sent Misty a note to see if SASS would be willing to have a defibrillator on site if

we raised the money to donate it.

 

Checked on them. Yes seems like a good one can be had for around $2000 buck.

They can be had for less.

BUT.

If we are going to do it. Lets get a good one.

 

Checking with Hairtrigger Hayes about him and his bank opening a fund at the bank as we raise

the money.

 

If Misty says yes. We will get the ball rolling to have one on hand before the next EOT.

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The reason I asked if the O.P was willing to provide medical treatment is I know many medical professionals will not provide medical aid outside of their workplace.

 

A second reason I asked is Doctors are most often the worse person to have providing medical treatment in the field unless they are a trained emergency room / trauma physician.

 

Vance, perhaps unintentionally, is making a good point about the direction of SASS. It is undeniable that the age of SASS shooters has been steadily going up over the years. With that these shooters bring with them medical conditions that may occur with at the event. Most of these conditions can be prevented but shooters fail to either recognize the warning signs or fail to take proper precautions such as drinking enough fluids, taking their meds, etc. Others such as Vance mention, diabetic ketoacidosis, seizure, heart attack, stroke and gun shot, are a risk at any shooting event.

 

The real issue is when should certain events such as WR be discontinued due to the likelihood of having foreseeable medical emergencies and a resulting lawsuit for failing to provide on-site medical personnel?

How about a tad bit of personal responsibility

Athletes will pre-train for a given altitude ahead of time

Why not shooters

Folks with other special needs (sauger, no sauger, hydrate, take your meds as directed, smoke, fatty liver, etc should could be better prepared)

 

Medical folks at a scene not wanting to help,,,,,,,wow

Fear of litigation perhaps???.?.?.?.?.I thought they swore to a medical code to always help those in need

 

Ambulance companies,,,,,,,some good, some not so good

 

I would let my trusted CAS family drive me to ER instead

They (the true ones that step up) do their best, as I do my best to hang on, what more could I ask for

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Hi,

 

I just found out we have an AED in the range office. One of our shooters who is a doctor also brings hers. She gave me the following information.

 

"http://www.costco.com/Philips-HeartStart-Home-Defibrillator.product.11323972.html?catalogId=10701&keyword=Defibrillator&langId=-1&storeId=10301

$1200
pads need to be replaced every year or so , and batteries every 5 or so ( battery light will come on)
mine came with training video and "practice pads and mat " ( don't know if they still do )."

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OK.

I sent Misty a note to see if SASS would be willing to have a defibrillator on site if

we raised the money to donate it.

 

Checked on them. Yes seems like a good one can be had for around $2000 buck.

They can be had for less.

BUT.

If we are going to do it. Lets get a good one.

 

Checking with Hairtrigger Hayes about him and his bank opening a fund at the bank as we raise

the money.

 

If Misty says yes. We will get the ball rolling to have one on hand before the next EOT.

I will put my limited money where my unlimited mouth is

Extra $$ if it comes in, can be used for further emergency enhancements at founders ranch

 

Misty Moonshine is proving to be a very good change for the benefit of all

All being

The shooters and the overall survival of SASs / CAS / WB

Thank you

Misty

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Hi,

 

I just found out we have an AED in the range office. One of our shooters who is a doctor also brings hers. She gave me the following information.

 

"http://www.costco.com/Philips-HeartStart-Home-Defibrillator.product.11323972.html?catalogId=10701&keyword=Defibrillator&langId=-1&storeId=10301

$1200
pads need to be replaced every year or so , and batteries every 5 or so ( battery light will come on)
mine came with training video and "practice pads and mat " ( don't know if they still do )."

 

 

 

If we get the OK from the SASS office to go for it.

Will get with some of our Doc's and Emergency Medical folks

to see which one we should get.

There are a bunch out there.

The home and business ones comes with instructions.

Plus maybe some could train on it.

Want to make sure we get a good one.

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The reason I asked if the O.P was willing to provide medical treatment is I know many medical professionals will not provide medical aid outside of their workplace.

 

A second reason I asked is Doctors are most often the worse person to have providing medical treatment in the field unless they are a trained emergency room / trauma physician.

 

 

I've been a physician for 41 years and I have rendered aid from sea level to 36,000 feet in the air. I've never met a physician that wouldn't step in and help in an emergency. As to being the "worse" (worst) person to provide medical assistance, I don't know what you do for a living, but a victim with a medical emergency is a lot better off with me than with you.

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Al, let me know where you are on the AED?

I would like to make a few suggestions on what I feel are essentials for EOT, WR, Regionals and State matches!

Thanks

Vance

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Al, let me know where you are on the AED?

I would like to make a few suggestions on what I feel are essentials for EOT, WR, Regionals and State matches!

Thanks

Vance

 

I sure will. Was hoping you would help pick one.

 

Just need to make sure that they will take it once we get it.

Don't want to do this and then they say NO. We don't want it.

Not sure why they would. BUT? You never know with them.

 

 

Figure it will be next week before I hear anything back.

With them just getting EOT done. And the 4th tomorrow.

I figure they might have skipped out of the office for the weekend already.

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We belong to a member owned campground of about 300 members. Every year we host a volleyball tournament that brings 1500 folks to the grounds.

During play there is an ambulance on site from the local volunteer company. For the three days the cost is a $500 donation.

We also have 3 members who are EMT's and when the ambulance is not on site at least one of them is. Every year we conduct a two day first responder course and 30 members are certified. We also have two AED's and conduct a 2 hour course for members and guests. A safety committee meets regularly and sees that the first aid kits are stocked, fire extinguishers up to date, the AED's are serviced and that other safety issues are addressed. The hospital has the GPS coordinates for a landing site and in fact just made a training landing on the property for the fire department. Emergency alarms are located at the pool and club house.

We have needed all these services and are damn glad they are in place for a minimal cost

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OK.

I sent Misty a note to see if SASS would be willing to have a defibrillator on site if

we raised the money to donate it.

 

Checked on them. Yes seems like a good one can be had for around $2000 buck.

They can be had for less.

BUT.

If we are going to do it. Lets get a good one.

If Misty says yes. We will get the ball rolling to have one on hand before the next EOT.

 

I don't know what to say......except that a really good defibrillator was offered to SASS at the deeply discounted price of $1100 and they declined the purchase.

 

Ask Misty about that one.......I'm sure that there is a reason why she decided against purchasing one.

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I've been a physician for 41 years and I have rendered aid from sea level to 36,000 feet in the air. I've never met a physician that wouldn't step in and help in an emergency. As to being the "worse" (worst) person to provide medical assistance, I don't know what you do for a living, but a victim with a medical emergency is a lot better off with me than with you.

That is a very true statement.

 

From your response you must be currently trained and up to date on emergency and trauma cases. Any club would be fortunate having you in attendance at their matches.

 

 

 

 

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We belong to a member owned campground of about 300 members. Every year we host a volleyball tournament that brings 1500 folks to the grounds.

During play there is an ambulance on site from the local volunteer company. For the three days the cost is a $500 donation.

We also have 3 members who are EMT's and when the ambulance is not on site at least one of them is. Every year we conduct a two day first responder course and 30 members are certified. We also have two AED's and conduct a 2 hour course for members and guests. A safety committee meets regularly and sees that the first aid kits are stocked, fire extinguishers up to date, the AED's are serviced and that other safety issues are addressed. The hospital has the GPS coordinates for a landing site and in fact just made a training landing on the property for the fire department. Emergency alarms are located at the pool and club house.

We have needed all these services and are damn glad they are in place for a minimal cost.

 

This is a great example of club that has implemented a good emergency plan, The only thing I would like to add is some members may be confused what a AED does. The AED is only a tool. While it will deliver a electrical shock CPR may still be necessary if the heart doesn't resume it's proper rhythm.

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I don't know what to say......except that a really good defibrillator was offered to SASS at the deeply discounted price of $1100 and they declined the purchase.

 

Ask Misty about that one.......I'm sure that there is a reason why she decided against purchasing one.

Perhaps it had something to do with Liability...

 

And what do you do with the competition during the absence of the Ambulance? Say they are off taking someone to the hospital...do you shut down the match till they get back? If you go on, and there is another emergency...you've got a legal problem pending.

 

Phantom

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I don't know what to say......except that a really good defibrillator was offered to SASS at the deeply discounted price of $1100 and they declined the purchase.

 

Ask Misty about that one.......I'm sure that there is a reason why she decided against purchasing one.

 

 

That's what I am afraid of.

Don't want to get started if they are not going to take it.

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(a) Good Samaritan protections regarding AEDs

Except as provided in subsection (B) of this section, any person who uses or attempts to use an automated external defibrillator device on a victim of a perceived medical emergency is immune from civil liability for any harm resulting from the use or attempted use of such device; and in addition, any person who acquired the device is immune from such liability, if the harm was not due to the failure of such acquirer of the device

(1) to notify local emergency response personnel or other appropriate entities of the most recent placement of the device within a reasonable period of time after the device was placed;

(2) to properly maintain and test the device; or

(3) to provide appropriate training in the use of the device to an employee or agent of the acquirer when the employee or agent was the person who used the device on the victim, except that such requirement of training does not apply if

(A) the employee or agent was not an employee or agent who would have been reasonably expected to use the device; or

(B) the period of time elapsing between the engagement of the person as an employee or agent and the occurrence of the harm (or between the acquisition of the device and the occurrence of the harm, in any case in which the device was acquired after such engagement of the person) was not a reasonably sufficient period in which to provide the training.

(B) Inapplicability of immunity

Immunity under subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a person if

(1) the harm involved was caused by willful or criminal misconduct, gross negligence, reckless misconduct, or a conscious, flagrant indifference to the rights or safety of the victim who was harmed;

(2) the person is a licensed or certified health professional who used the automated external defibrillator device while acting within the scope of the license or certification of the professional and within the scope of the employment or agency of the professional;

(3) the person is a hospital, clinic, or other entity whose purpose is providing health care directly to patients, and the harm was caused by an employee or agent of the entity who used the device while acting within the scope of the employment or agency of the employee or agent; or

(4) the person is an acquirer of the device who leased the device to a health care entity (or who otherwise provided the device to such entity for compensation without selling the device to the entity), and the harm was caused by an employee or agent of the entity who used the device while acting within the scope of the employment or agency of the employee or agent.

© Rules of construction

(1) In general

The following applies with respect to this section:

(A) This section does not establish any cause of action, or require that an automated external defibrillator device be placed at any building or other location.

(B) With respect to a class of persons for which this section provides immunity from civil liability, this section supersedes the law of a State only to the extent that the State has no statute or regulations that provide persons in such class with immunity for civil liability arising from the use by such persons of automated external defibrillator devices in emergency situations (within the meaning of the State law or regulation involved).

© This section does not waive any protection from liability for Federal officers or employees under

(i) section 233 of this title; or

(ii) sections 1346 (B), 2672, and 2679 of title 28 or under alternative benefits provided by the United States where the availability of such benefits precludes a remedy under section 1346 (B) of title 28.

(2) Civil actions under Federal law

(A) In general

The applicability of subsections (a) and (B) of this section includes applicability to any action for civil liability described in subsection (a) of this section that arises under Federal law.

(B) Federal areas adopting State law

If a geographic area is under Federal jurisdiction and is located within a State but out of the jurisdiction of the State, and if, pursuant to Federal law, the law of the State applies in such area regarding matters for which there is no applicable Federal law, then an action for civil liability described in subsection (a) of this section that in such area arises under the law of the State is subject to subsections (a) through © of this section in lieu of any related State law that would apply in such area in the absence of this subparagraph.

(d) Federal jurisdiction

In any civil action arising under State law, the courts of the State involved have jurisdiction to apply the provisions of this section exclusive of the jurisdiction of the courts of the United States.

(e) Definitions

(1) Perceived medical emergency

For purposes of this section, the term perceived medical emergency means circumstances in which the behavior of an individual leads a reasonable person to believe that the individual is experiencing a life-threatening medical condition that requires an immediate medical response regarding the heart or other cardiopulmonary functioning of the individual.

(2) Other definitions

For purposes of this section:

(A) The term automated external defibrillator device means a defibrillator device that

(i) is commercially distributed in accordance with the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act [21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.];

(ii) is capable of recognizing the presence or absence of ventricular fibrillation, and is capable of determining without intervention by the user of the device whether defibrillation should be performed;

(iii) upon determining that defibrillation should be performed, is able to deliver an electrical shock to an individual; and

(iv) in the case of a defibrillator device that may be operated in either an automated or a manual mode, is set to operate in the automated mode.

(B)

(i) The term harm includes physical, nonphysical, economic, and noneconomic losses.

(ii) The term economic loss means any pecuniary loss resulting from harm (including the loss of earnings or other benefits related to employment, medical expense loss, replacement services loss, loss due to death, burial costs, and loss of business or employment opportunities) to the extent recovery for such loss is allowed under applicable State law.

(iii) The term noneconomic losses means losses for physical and emotional pain, suffering, inconvenience, physical impairment, mental anguish, disfigurement, loss of enjoyment of life, loss of society and companionship, loss of consortium (other than loss of domestic service), hedonic damages, injury to reputation and all other nonpecuniary losses of any kind or nature.

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I said "A second reason I asked is Doctors are most often the worse person to have providing medical treatment in the field unless they are a trained emergency room / trauma physician."

 

From your response you must be currently trained and up to date on emergency and trauma cases. Any club would be fortunate having you in attendance at their matches.

 

However spare me your sanctimonious attitude that " but a victim with a medical emergency is a lot better off with me than with you." Doctors kill more people (120,000 accidental deaths) than auto accidents and guns. (citation JAMA). I know Doctors that can not remember how to properly perform CPR.

 

Outside of the hospital/emergency room medically trained first responders are the best qualified to treat and stabilize the patient until they can reach a hospital. This is the entire basis for having paramedic program.

 

I rub elbows with Doctors 5 days a week and every one of them I work with know the limits of their training and don't hesitate to call for help from personnel that have more experience than they do. In addition I have two generations of family members that work in hospitals so I have heard a earful about screw-ups Doctors do.

I hope that we can agree to disagree

Your 120,000 accidental deaths say "accidental"

Let's put your number as a ratio, up against non death success number

 

I have two reconstructive surgeons in my family

They are called to The emergency room on every shift they work for advise and some times they are needed for further procedures

Sometimes the ER folks are just as lame as you suggest that MD's are, % are percentages, lame folks are in every field of occupations

 

Let's see, I am at a shoot, something happens, I will take an every day MD to assist to my current needs over the wanna bee gunsmith trying to take charge in some cases, at that time

Med school teaches every single aspect of the human body possible to date! and that teach it to each and every student, no matter what they may wish to specialize in later

Sure, MD graduates can not commit 100% of what they were told to memory just like a match director can not commit 100% of all rules and RO material to memory, but they both do the best that they can under the current conditions

 

In summery, I disagree with much of what you said

This is a country that allows that

Have a wonderful 4th of July, long weekend

May the creator bless America

 

Post script

The fastest way for resident MD's to gain experience is

By having them work the ER room, over over and over again

And that is what they did with SASS Chantelle lace

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Vance ,,our local EMS (Life Net) located in Texarkana, Texas has been and supports our range with a non dedicated unit to stay at the range for 3 days during the S.W. Regional. We have had to call on them for services a couple times in the past. The EMT unit might have to respond to another accident,,, then,,, they come right back and stay until the shooting is done for the day... Ask Your EMS service for a non-dedicated unit for your next event, most of the EMS service's will provide this service for free....

 

 

YES !!!!!! every event needs to have a EMS service on site......

 

 

Yall have a great day and be safe have fun and be SAFE !!!!!!!! T-Bone

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However spare me your sanctimonious attitude that " but a victim with a medical emergency is a lot better off with me than with you." Doctors kill more people (120,000 accidental deaths) than auto accidents and guns. (citation JAMA). I know Doctors that can not remember how to properly perform CPR.

 

 

This doctors, guns and auto accident canard has been on the internet for over a decade. Actually, the study was released by the Institute of Medicine in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1991 using 1984 chart review data. The conclusions were a result of estimates and extrapolations. The main message of the IOM report, and the conceptual underpinning of the recommendations made, was that errors almost always result from poorly defined systems, not from careless providers. Since that report, hospitals and providers across the country have embraced national patient safety standards that are being constantly improved. Current proficiency in CPR is a requirement for staff membership in every hospital in which I have practiced. As I stated, I have been in practice for 41 years and hold clinical assistant professorships at three university medical schools. I consider your comments insulting and needless. We were discussing the safest way to care for our friends who may be afflicted with a serious medical emergency. If you don't respect nor particularly care for physicians, that's your prerogative. I'm just not in the mood to be insulted.

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Should EOT have an onsite Ambulance for Emergencies?

 

And a MediVac. With 3 shifts of Pilots, Doctors, Nurses and Mechanics to keep the helicopter running. Better make that 2 helicopters in case mechanical troubles.

 

Better yet a fully equipped hospital on site. Specialists for gun shots and old fogies ailments. MRI and Cat-scan equipment.

 

They could even require every cowpoke to go thru a full and complete physical when they enter the property.

 

There would be a slight problem paying for all this. Maybe we could promise the State Officials we would vote for them if they'd pass a tax that all of the state residents would pay. Tax could be called the Safe Assurance Senior System. Bet with enough lies the Feds would add this as a requirement to ObamaCareless. Don't you think?

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?...I am asking the 500 attendees +- how much extra are you willing to pay added to the current shoot fee...

How about a check box on the EOT application. "Do you want a ambulance on site?"

 

Take the cost of the ambulance divided by the number of Cowpokes that checked that "Yes" and the additional cost to the "Yes cowpokes" match fee.

 

That would be fair wouldn't it?

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Matthew,

 

Your last two post are silly !!

 

We all know having a hospital, medical equiped helicopter and such are prohibitive.

 

Yer kidding about a check box,,, organizers need to know well in advance and have contracts signed with outside services (medical for this discussion) well in advanced so they can formulate a budget for the event, meaning match fees to be collected. As well as being silly that someone would be refused medical services if they checked no on the entry fee.

 

Bravo for the clubs that can and find community medical ambulance service, for pennies for their event.

 

The volunteer fire/ambulance where I live are volunteers, they have a life and are not sitting around the fire hall waiting for a call. When they get a call, some will mobilize from their home to the site an others will mobilize to the fire hall to get the truck.

 

I am guessing the out of pocket extra cost would be in the $50 per person range for a fairly large event (500 shooters) for just trained medical personel to be on site and no on site ambulance. We can argue the $ per person, but that question was asked, what is your threshhold $ add on to attend a match.?

 

 

Liability and Special Use Permit requirements are probably two items that have been overlooked.

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Matthew,

 

Your last two post are silly !!...

I'm glad you took the posts as they were meant to be. . :)

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