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Vance Montana

Should EOT have an onsite Ambulance for Emergencies?

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Can we have a tally here for all match directors of EOT to see if you the shooter would appreciate the luxury of knowing you do not need to wait 40min to an hour for medical help to come to the rescue if something tragic happens to you while on the range.

 

As a doctor and being at the seen as a first responder for two separate medical emergencies (two separate years) I am asking you all to look at this issue very closely. You can not put a price on a single life and as you all know the age population in SASS is mainly 40-80's. Most with medical conditions dealing with the heart and lungs. The medications these shooter take can be affected by exertion, heat, sweating, dehydration and fatigue.

 

I am for having this service at EOT, Winter Range, Regionals and State matches. We pay the money and if it is ($10 more dollars) -not sure how much more) per entry to have this luxury it is a non issue.

 

Our Motto FIRST BE SAFE, HAVE FUN, BE SAFE-- how can you be safe with no professional medical help on the property? Our toys are FIREARMS!!

 

Sorry for this rant, but I need some help with this please SASS members.

 

Thanks,

Your humble servant

Vance Montana

 

One death has occured at EOT due to Heart Attack and a sass member trained in CPR was on the case but not enough with a 45min to one hour arrival time!

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To answer your question, yes.

 

Fillmore

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Something the size of EOT or Winter Range, yes.

 

Regional and state matches, my initial thought is depends on how big there are.

 

I don't know where you would draw the line, 200 shooters maybe?

 

As you say, you can't put a price on a human life, or quality of life after an event that quick care could have helped. You could have a need at a match with only a few people, but the odds that there will be a need go up as the number of shooters does.

 

An extra 5 or 10 bucks ain't gonna break me to help cover the cost of on site EMT coverage.

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We have a 1500 comptetor Volleyball tournament at the campground we belong to every year. You bet there is an ambulance on the grounds and it has been needed

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4537381

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It depends on the location more than the level of the match. If EOT for example gets an hour response to a medical emergency, then a better solution is needed. Other locations with fast emergency response times likely need no changes.

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I am for having this service at EOT, Winter Range, Regionals and State matches.

 

Speaking as the person who got carted out a few short months ago, I can personally guarantee Winter Range has a highly trained medical crew present and ready. Thanks to their quick actions and those of the wonderful Winter Range crew I'm up and competing again, getting ready for Winter Range 2015.

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As a retired surgeon, I would like to see EMTs and an ambulance if the location is more than 10 or 15 minutes from a fire station or other responders. Us old guys can't handle doing CPR as long as we used to.

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Speaking as the person who got carted out a few short months ago, I can personally guarantee Winter Range has a highly trained medical crew present and ready. Thanks to their quick actions and those of the wonderful Winter Range crew I'm up and competing again, getting ready for Winter Range 2015.

Thanks Philly. Winter Range has a large red and white medical services tent right in the middle of the range behind stages seven and eight. It is about fifty feet from the firing line. It is manned full time by at least two EMT's from the local fire station. They are in radio contact with their firehouse which is about one mile away.

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Mileage will always very

If local emergency responders were merly briefed to the EOT dates and location just in case of a call / need

That would be fine with me

But I still ride my bike without a foam helmet too!

 

Good question at any rate

At what number of folks do you feel the need for an ambulance standing by?

 

When I started sass there was a local club that had one at monthly shoots of 30 shooters

I felt uneasy, just waiting for something to happen

Oh well

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If Founders Ranch has the room and they are 40-60 minutes out from a hospital it would be worth while to have a designated helipad.

As with any large event first responders should be on site. All the motorcycle and auto racing events I attended had an ambulance on site. We had a discussion regarding this topic before HOW, and we decided being only 12 miles from the local hospital we only needed first aid at HOW this year. As our numbers grow, we will probably have an on site ambulance in the future. The Colorado state match is probably a good hour from a hospital and I would think they will have this covered for their shoot this weekend, especially when the temperatures are reaching 90+ degrees.

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As a former MD for Georgia State SASS I had off duty EMT's on site with a radio and their bag. We paid them and provided them with a golf cart and lunch.

Each stage had an airborne to use if the need arose and all posse marshals were aware of it.

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It depends on the location more than the level of the match. If EOT for example gets an hour response to a medical emergency, then a better solution is needed. Other locations with fast emergency response times likely need no changes.

 

 

+1

 

With EOT being located where it is.

And the amount of people they have.

I think it would be a good idea to look into.

 

Maybe what WR has would work out and not cost all that much.

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I left before the main match started this year but in the past I believe there was an on site ambulance during main match competition. Sass does have a nurse on duty, Dusty Garnet and she is very good and dedicated. They even have their own hospital right next to the waddy shack.

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Hi Vance,

 

I would be willing to pay more to attend a match with EMTs on the scene. I agree that driving time to a hospital may be a determining factor in need. Also, high temperatures are a consideration.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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The heli pad is a good idea

Cept for the dust, and scarin small animals, that would take a lot of loads of gravel

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Hi Vance,

 

I would be willing to pay more to attend a match with EMTs on the scene. I agree that driving time to a hospital may be a determining factor in need. Also, high temperatures are a consideration.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

Not only the temperature. But the altitude. Add that to the temp.

And folks can get in trouble before they know it.

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I refed high school football for many years. A majority of games had EMS at the field.

 

1 player and many spectators were transported for emergency medical care during those 8+ years.

 

I'll gladly pay an additional match fee, if needed, for EMS coverage.

 

Heck, I might be the next patient.

 

AR

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I agree with Vance ! Especially when the response time is lengthy (I'll this time to the Professionals). I had a scare this year while attending Eot. At Eot couple of years ago I witnessed an outstanding young Man( TRO- Texas Ricochet) give cpr To a shooter for approximately 45 minutes before the ambulance arrived !! His efforts where for not as the shooter passed.Ill never for get the unrelenting effort of Ethan (Tro) he would not give up trying to save this man's life. Would an EMT on duty have made a difference, don't know.

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Ok

Next question

Have them there 24 / 7 for the week

Or

What are the cut offs

People count

Air temp

After all someone in a RV or at the saloon / shindigs might need it after hours?

 

There are options to having one standing at the ready.

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It depends on the location more than the level of the match. If EOT for example gets an hour response to a medical emergency, then a better solution is needed. Other locations with fast emergency response times likely need no changes.

+1

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I agree with Vance ! Especially when the response time is lengthy (I'll this time to the Professionals). I had a scare this year while attending Eot. At Eot couple of years ago I witnessed an outstanding young Man( TRO- Texas Ricochet) give cpr To a shooter for approximately 45 minutes before the ambulance arrived !! His efforts where for not as the shooter passed.Ill never for get the unrelenting effort of Ethan (Tro) he would not give up trying to save this man's life. Would an EMT on duty have made a difference, don't know.

 

 

Heard about that.

TRO is one of THE BEST men there is.

 

Should at least have one of them shocker things (for some reason I can not think of the name on those)

on site and at least a few trained how to use it.

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Old retired medic and current nurse here.

I vote yes.

Reasons already stated: age, altitude, heat, medications, sweating (electrolyte imbalance)

Long response time is a bad thing.

Having squad on-site halves your transport time and cuts time to immediate treatment significantly.

The greatest medical threat is not gunshot wound, but pre-existing condition: asthma, cardiac, allergic reaction.

On the other hand, what do I know, I'm just a poor dumb hillbilly who put a quarter of a century of my life under the siren.

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The Edgewood Fire and Ambulance Service has an ambulance located eleven miles from Founders Ranch. The route to Founders Ranch is on two state highways. Once at the ranch the ambulance has a thirty mile drive to the University of New Mexico Hospital's Level I Trama Center in Albuquerque (mostly via interstate 40). Should ground transport of the patient be too slow a medical helicopter can be dispatched to pick up the patient and deliver him/her to a rooftop helipad at the UNMH. I don't know if Misty has designated a helicopter landing site at Founders Ranch. However from my experience in search and rescue the terrain at the ranch is favorable for helicopter operations and selecting a site would be easy.

 

I'm not going to weigh in whether SASS should station an ambulance at EOT. For those posting opinions on this thread the information above might be useful.

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Just a thought. I have been at matches that the local National guard had there med team there with a NG ambulance. We already pay for them.

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The Edgewood Fire and Ambulance Service has an ambulance located eleven miles from Founders Ranch. The route to Founders Ranch is on two state highways. Once at the ranch the ambulance has a thirty mile drive to the University of New Mexico Hospital's Level I Trama Center in Albuquerque (mostly via interstate 40). Should ground transport of the patient be too slow a medical helicopter can be dispatched to pick up the patient and deliver him/her to a rooftop helipad at the UNMH. I don't know if Misty has designated a helicopter landing site at Founders Ranch. However from my experience in search and rescue the terrain at the ranch is favorable for helicopter operations and selecting a site would be easy.

 

I'm not going to weigh in whether SASS should station an ambulance at EOT. For those posting opinions on this thread the information above might be useful.

Thank you for providing some real facts

Folks can better make judgements based upon facts

 

I have done chest compressions learned for first aid, and just a few short miles from emt ambulance service

She still passed on

 

An ambulance at the house probably would not made a difference

 

Yes I agree that they are good to have available

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Our club, the Chorro Valley Regulators, bought an AED and we have used it. Our pardner did not ultimately survive but we did get him off the range alive which allowed his family to make numerous tissue and organ donations. We also always describe at the shooter's safety meeting what needs to happen in the event of a medical emergency. I am an MD and the Sheriff tells them which posse I'm on. We have someone to call 911, someone to jump in a car and meet the paramedics and bring them to our range and someone to fetch the AED. We have index cards (sealed) with medical information, allergies, etc on file in the clubhouse to give to the paramedics. The defibrillator speaks in a loud voice, tells the rescuer exactly what to do and maintains a record of the entire rescue that can be downloaded after the event for a permanent record. I recommend, due to the general age and condition of our friends, that all clubs consider having an AED on site.

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The Edgewood Fire and Ambulance Service has an ambulance located eleven miles from Founders Ranch. The route to Founders Ranch is on two state highways. Once at the ranch the ambulance has a thirty mile drive to the University of New Mexico Hospital's Level I Trama Center in Albuquerque (mostly via interstate 40). Should ground transport of the patient be too slow a medical helicopter can be dispatched to pick up the patient and deliver him/her to a rooftop helipad at the UNMH. I don't know if Misty has designated a helicopter landing site at Founders Ranch. However from my experience in search and rescue the terrain at the ranch is favorable for helicopter operations and selecting a site would be easy.

 

I'm not going to weigh in whether SASS should station an ambulance at EOT. For those posting opinions on this thread the information above might be useful.

Like I stated earlier it took approximately 45 minutes for the ambulance to arrive at Eot!

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Like I stated earlier it took approximately 45 minutes for the ambulance to arrive at Eot!

That is a fact to deal with and make appropriate decision around

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hate to say it, but yes,,,, for State and above matches. that matches would probably generated enough revenue to pay for the service.

 

... Probable for monthlies too,,, but economics would be prohibitive that.

 

I say this because of the very, every increasing, average aging shooting population, with obvious health issues and temperature.humity, altitude and so forth, complications/factors.

 

i am surprised (but grateful)there 'hasn't' been more face plants at matches.

 

On a lighter side, I know a shooter that shoots 'best' while having a heart attack. Litterly!!

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yes

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At State and above matches, when they are located more than real-time 15 minutes from help, having an off-duty crew and ambulance would be a great help, and worth the extra $ involved. Many of these matches take place in hot weather, where our aging bodies, on vasodilators, beta-blockers, calcium channel-blockers, diuretics, anti-arrythimics, and blood-thinners, diabetic meds, and whatever more there is for whatever ails us, puts us at risk.

Having an advanced first aid kit and an Defibrillator on hand is a must for all clubs, as is training in how to use them (and CPR!).

 

I remember being threatened with an 18ga needle in the arm, by an EMT at the SE Regional at Mule Camp one year, if I didn't get hydrated pronto! Excellent advice.

I know that either the State or SE Regional in SC (misremember which) has EMTs and an ambulance on hand during shooting times. Can't thank them enough.

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Honestly I'm feeling a bit surprised that having had more than one occurance that was 45 min for an ambulance/ EMS this issue was ever allowed to occur again.

 

And really here is a medical professional pleading for our support as participants and we're 2nd guessing because it may be too expensive or 'might not have made a difference'? SERIOUSLY?

 

More to the point...why is this even a question? Can you even imagine what a decent litigator could do with having ignored a medical need/known life threatening response time based on cost?

 

Hope you clubs realize that negligence means you're betting your personal net worth on your answer.

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I do not feel that it should be a mandate

 

Leave it up to individual shoots, based upon their own unique factors to do what they think is appropriate

 

This discussion is important, you can bet many clubs will show improvement along these lines

 

 

 

Mileage will very

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