Blue Jeans or not

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

that would not qualify, look at the rules to see why not.

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

Just re-read. What doesn't qualify?

[Nevada Skye, SASS #54791]

All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy for B Western. I don't see any flash there.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Jimmy,

 

That video is really blurry and difficult to see detail. So forgive me if I mistake something.

 

Following are the BW rules about leather and costuming. I've used Red to indicate areas of non-compliance.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

PS Purdy Boy, what did you see.

 

• Leather: Buscadero holster rigs or drop holster rigs. (All of the revolver(s) must be carried below the top of the gun belt.) All belt and holster rigs must be embellished (fancy stitching, conchos, spots, or tooling). All holsters must be of the "Double Strong-Side" type. No crossdraw, shoulder rigs, or butt forward configurations allowed.

 

• Costuming: Shirts must be of the "B" Western style with snap buttons or any of the following: "Smiley Pockets," embroidery, appliqués, fringe, or different colored yokes. Shield shirts are also allowed if it has piping or embroidery.

 

• Pants must be jeans, ranch pants, or pants with flap over the rear pocket, keystone belt loops, and/or piping or fringe.

 

• Pants must be worn with a belt. Suspenders are not allowed. Felt hats only, no straw hats. Hats must be worn.

 

• Boots are required and must be of traditional design with fancy stitching or multi-color fancy design with non-grip enhancing (i.e. "NO Lug") soles. Lace up boots and moccasins are not allowed.

 

• Western Spurs with rowels are required for men. Ladies may wear skirts or split riding skirts.

 

• You must choose at least one or more of the following optional items: gloves or gauntlets, scarves with slides or tied around the neck or bolo tie, coat, vest, chaps or cuffs.

 

• All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy. The "B" Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions.

[riverview rattler]

Nice video...always good to have pictures.

You look good ..very cowboy but, I never would have guessed by watching the video that you were shooting BW...

Your rig is nice but plain, your clothes are very cowboy, but where is the flashy and fancy?

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

For me that is flashy. Pistols are below top of belt. Have spurs on. Boots have stiching.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Hard to tell from video.

 

Boots might have fancy stitching.

The leather rig might be fully tooled.

 

But from the vid. I would never guess you was a BW shooter.

 

Seems if you was picking a category for fancy and flashy. You missed the mark.

 

Sure not much into what the sprit of the category is.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

the scarf is not tied around the neck, ie like roy.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Gets interesting, doesn't it?!

 

Old habits always drag me back to what is actually written in the rules. That has to be the starting point. Currently, the rules are as follows:

 

"Cowboy Action ShootingTM is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday morning at

the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing
must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series.

SASS puts a great deal of emphasis on costuming because it adds so much to the uniqueness of
our game and helps create a festive, informal atmosphere that supports the friendly, fraternal
feeling we encourage in our competitors.

All shooters must be in costume, and we encourage invited guests and family also to be
costumed. Shooters must remain in costume at all match events: dinners, award ceremonies,
dances, etcetera.

ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it
would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television."

 

Note that the last line offers three options: OLD WEST, BW, and "television."

 

If we can agree that Old West is pretty much along the lines of Classic Cowboy, without all of the items specific to that class then we have that one pretty well defined. For example, a shooter dressed "classic style" but without say the chaps and pocket watch.

 

As seen in the BW category, but say without the spurs, but maintaining the flash and style we associate with BW. This does not mean the shooter must shoot in that category, only dress in the BW Style. He/she could be shooting age based in terms of category and fire arms used.

 

That leaves the third option, "television." Now that's when guys like the Rifleman and Little Joe Cartwright come to mind. It is there, in the "television" option that we may be able to find some common ground for compromise - and find a fit for those jeans.

 

As Grizzly Dave and others have noted, take off the gun belt and you may not look any different that the fella sitting next to you in the cafe! However, if we borrow a page from the rules for BW and CC, we may be able to keep the jeans, and satisfy the "need" to move costuming up a notch to better comply with the emphasis on costuming the rules state.

 

Suggestion:

 

Develop a list of items that the individual can choose from to fit with the TW (television western) costume. Say a scarf, vest, pocket watch with chain, cuffs, etc. You get the idea.

 

This would up the bar for the "SASS Minimum", place the desired emphasis on costuming, and once the gun belt comes off, the shooter would still "look cowboy."

 

I think we need to be looking to find common ground. These discussions as to whether or not such and such is cowboy enough is less than productive and provides little room for the kind of compromise that most can live within. Simply banning jeans is not going to cut it! IMHO.

 

GA

 

[NavarroNed]

I might have missed it, but I do not see any reference to Time/Life books such as "The Cowboys" or "The Gunfighters" as a source for establishing how a true cowboy dressed circa 1860-1899. They contain authentic photographs of lots of real cowboys & gunfighters of that period. The books are available in some public libraries and also at http://www.amazon.com/The-Cowboys-West-Time-Life-Series/dp/B000H486DC.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I'd love to read all 6 pages...but, I frankly don't have the patience...sorry.

 

I bring new shooters into this game on a regular basis. I can PROMISE you that if we get rid of the ability to wear "Jeans", we are going to lose out on some of them.

 

The dress up part is pretty much like other aspects of this game. You kinda grow into it as you become more experienced with the game...find out what "Look" they like...etc, without spending MORE money!

 

We don't need more BARRIERS to entry here folks.

 

Phantom

[Nevada Skye, SASS #54791]

Grizzly Adams, we already have a list of items to be worn for B Western, plus the requirement of flashy. One can dress in the manner of a TV show in any of the other categories except CC. And Old West can include all sorts of clothing, from shop keepers to school marms, saloon gal, Society Lady, Mexican, to military. Movies from "True Grit" to "The Wild Wild West". Cowboys were not the only way to dress in the Old West!!! I love all the different aspects of the costumes and peoples ideas of what to wear, as long as they follow the rules and the spirit of the game!!

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

Grizzly Adams, I see where you are going and I understand. However, I just don't think it is necessary. Tex obviously has a burr under his saddle about blue jeans. The consensus here on the Wire at least is that we don't agree with his stance. There may be times rules have not been enforced like they should. Well, lets enforce them. If not, do away with them.*

 

*interesting how one can make parallels with the debate on gun control laws.

[Blastmaster]

 

Grizzly Adams, we already have a list of items to be worn for B Western, plus the requirement of flashy. One can dress in the manner of a TV show in any of the other categories except CC. And Old West can include all sorts of clothing, from shop keepers to school marms, saloon gal, Society Lady, Mexican, to military. Movies from "True Grit" to "The Wild Wild West". Cowboys were not the only way to dress in the Old West!!! I love all the different aspects of the costumes and peoples ideas of what to wear, as long as they follow the rules and the spirit of the game!!

 

 

Since baseball was popular in the 1800's, then someone could dress up as a BB player and wear a baseball cap,,,, and if the shooting line was dirt or sod, he could wear his cleated shoes.

 

Perhaps we should think of CAS as Costume Action Shooting of the 1800's.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Grizzly Adams, I see where you are going and I understand. However, I just don't think it is necessary. Tex obviously has a burr under his saddle about blue jeans. The consensus here on the Wire at least is that we don't agree with his stance. There may be times rules have not been enforced like they should. Well, lets enforce them. If not, do away with them.*

 

*interesting how one can make parallels with the debate on gun control laws.

 

 

Yep. Just enforce what we got.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Grizzly Adams, we already have a list of items to be worn for B Western, plus the requirement of flashy. One can dress in the manner of a TV show in any of the other categories except CC. And Old West can include all sorts of clothing, from shop keepers to school marms, saloon gal, Society Lady, Mexican, to military. Movies from "True Grit" to "The Wild Wild West". Cowboys were not the only way to dress in the Old West!!! I love all the different aspects of the costumes and peoples ideas of what to wear, as long as they follow the rules and the spirit of the game!!

 

+1 Nevada. The rules, as they are, would seem to provide for three costume options: Old West, BW and "television." What I am suggesting is a list of items for "TW" or television costuming option which would bump up the bar a bit for those that want/prefer to dress more "minimal" (Think Rifleman and Little Joe) and wear jeans, work shirt/snap shirt, hat and boots. The list, as in BW and CC could be a "choose and 4 out 6 for example.

 

The option to dress as a townie, saloon girl, Mexican, military or whatever does not appear to be the problem. No one is questioning those costuming options. It's the "minimal" wheel that seems to be squeaking.

[diablo slim]

I wonder if its the zipper instead of button fly that makes Wranglers take the heat...i for one would like to have zippers in all my pants

[Nevada Skye, SASS #54791]

Agree, Grizzly Adams. There are so many options, lets just have fun with them!!

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Agree, Grizzly Adams. There are so many options, lets just have fun with them!!

 

Roger that, Nevada!

[Ace_of_Hearts]

its's hard to see the spurs but they are there. Have added wrist cuffs with stars since this was filmed.

You would be asked to change categories at any shoot that I ran.

and

Any shoot that allowed you to compete in the B-Western Category dressed as you are in the video would certainly loose my participation and if SASS sanctioned a refund of my entry fees.

[Broncho Billy Aronson]

Looked pretty B Western to me. Just exactly is your objection to his dress?

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

Jimmy Reb,

 

You don't qualify for B'Western by any stretch of the imagination. I would vigorously protest your shooting BW to the match director. There is nothing flashy about your rig or clothing.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Button Fly Trowsers were invented by a woman who hates men.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

one of the best things about shooting BW, ZIPPERS!!!

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

one of the best things about shooting BW, ZIPPERS!!!

+1

[Madd Mike #8595]

utto

i wear wranglers with a zipper as a gunfighter?????

what now

 

no one can tell

finger arth-right-uus

dont work them buttons any more, guess I could get a note from my doc or sumthin

[Jackson Haller]

+1 Nevada. The rules, as they are, would seem to provide for three costume options: Old West, BW and "television." What I am suggesting is a list of items for "TW" or television costuming option which would bump up the bar a bit for those that want/prefer to dress more "minimal" (Think Rifleman and Little Joe) and wear jeans, work shirt/snap shirt, hat and boots. The list, as in BW and CC could be a "choose and 4 out 6 for example.

 

The option to dress as a townie, saloon girl, Mexican, military or whatever does not appear to be the problem. No one is questioning those costuming options. It's the "minimal" wheel that seems to be squeaking.

Howdy Grizz,

I've given alot of thought over the years to my outfits and actually did put together a TV western outfit. I initially used TV series especially from the 60's and early 70's as my source material but ended up adding in western films of the same era as well. It was alot more difficult than one would think, as there's such a variation even within those defined parameters. I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a truly representative yet managable list of accessories or main clothing requirements. Depending on the TV series or film, all sorts of gear and attire could be justified, especially if one added in the secondary, background and character actors.

 

I, myself, ended up with a telescopic crown hat (think Steve McQueen's or James Coburn's hat in Mag 7) and a cattleman crease hat (the later more common on secondary characters, the lead exception being Glen Ford, who also tended to wear them), jeans (brown, black, beige even; the exception being Steve McQueen in Mag 7, who did infact wear 'blue' colored jeans) with belt loops, and a plain leather belt with a clipped corner california buckle, pointed toed boots, button shirt with a collar (there are exceptions, but most wore collared shirts), a dark colored nondescript vest, a cheap small cotton bandana, some roping gloves, and Texas style spurs (pretty much everybody on TV and in film of that era wore Texas style spurs unless they were playing a Mexican bandito; I went with some clones of John Wayne's McChesny spurs).

Gunleather seemed to be mostly buscadero or drop loop rigs, the big exception being John Wayne's holsters/belt. I went with his type of gunleather, as I found it much more comfortable than the buscadero/drop loop set up. The firearms actually proved to be the easiest to determine; colt SAAs or clones (I ended up with Rugers, figuring since I'd seen 'Matt Dillion' use a Great Western with a transfer bar, I could get away with a Ruger!) with plowhandles (any standard barrel length), a '92 winchester/clone (especially in a carbine or short rifle configuration; you can't imagine how many carbines I've seen that got new longer rifle-style buttstocks put on them!), and a hammered double pretty much covered TV and film of that era.

[Kananaskis Kid, SASS #62402]

Haven't worn anything but Wranglers in all the years I've been shooting cowboy. Started out shooting Traditional, followed by Duelist, Classic Cowboy, B-Western, Senior Duelist, and most recently Gunfighter. Regardless of the category I always wear spurs, cuffs, a wild rag or scarf with slide, a vest (except in B-Western), a knife, and, unless it is too hot, shotgun chaps. Used to wear a watch with chain but stopped after I got the chain caught in the action of my rifle. Wearing Wranglers doesn't diminish my persona of being cowboy whether they're blue, black, brown, tan, or grey. Wranglers are cowboy. And regardless of what Tex says, I will continue to wear Wranglers.

 

Just had a look through Time-Life Books, The Cowboys. Couldn't find one photo or painting (Remington, Charlie Russell) of cowboys wearing suspenders, yet no one is trying to have them outlawed from SASS.

[Nevada Skye, SASS #54791]

It was considered very bad taste to have your suspenders show. KK, in those pictures, were most of the cowboys wearing vests or coats? Many times the suspenders would be under them. I'll have to take closer look at some of those pictures.

In one of his pictures, Cowboys wrestling Bulls, one of the cowboys has suspenders. Many of the others have on vests or coats, so it would be hard to tell if they had them or not. More research is required for me!!

[Kananaskis Kid, SASS #62402]

Nevada Skye, went back and checked - quite a few we're wearing vests, but it seemed the majority were without. Upon closer examination, I did spot a few wearing suspenders, but, As Muleshoe Bill stated in post #115, suspenders were avoided because they could get hung up.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Howdy Grizz,

I've given alot of thought over the years to my outfits and actually did put together a TV western outfit. I initially used TV series especially from the 60's and early 70's as my source material but ended up adding in western films of the same era as well. It was alot more difficult than one would think, as there's such a variation even within those defined parameters. I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a truly representative yet managable list of accessories or main clothing requirements. Depending on the TV series or film, all sorts of gear and attire could be justified, especially if one added in the secondary, background and character actors.

 

I, myself, ended up with a telescopic crown hat (think Steve McQueen's or James Coburn's hat in Mag 7) and a cattleman crease hat (the later more common on secondary characters, the lead exception being Glen Ford, who also tended to wear them), jeans (brown, black, beige even; the exception being Steve McQueen in Mag 7, who did infact wear 'blue' colored jeans) with belt loops, and a plain leather belt with a clipped corner california buckle, pointed toed boots, button shirt with a collar (there are exceptions, but most wore collared shirts), a dark colored nondescript vest, a cheap small cotton bandana, some roping gloves, and Texas style spurs (pretty much everybody on TV and in film of that era wore Texas style spurs unless they were playing a Mexican bandito; I went with some clones of John Wayne's McChesny spurs).

Gunleather seemed to be mostly buscadero or drop loop rigs, the big exception being John Wayne's holsters/belt. I went with his type of gunleather, as I found it much more comfortable than the buscadero/drop loop set up. The firearms actually proved to be the easiest to determine; colt SAAs or clones (I ended up with Rugers, figuring since I'd seen 'Matt Dillion' use a Great Western with a transfer bar, I could get away with a Ruger!) with plowhandles (any standard barrel length), a '92 winchester/clone (especially in a carbine or short rifle configuration; you can't imagine how many carbines I've seen that got new longer rifle-style buttstocks put on them!), and a hammered double pretty much covered TV and film of that era.

 

Great post, Sacarmento Johnson! You have obviously put a lot of thought into your costuming. Some great ideas!

 

[Nevada Skye, SASS #54791]

Thank you KK, and I sure understand your reasoning. I also saw many cowboys in the more frontier type shirts, and the "shield" type ones. I guess it would depend on who or what a person is dressing as, and the best way to keep your pants up!!!!!

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

It was considered very bad taste to have your suspenders show.

+1 Yep, kinda like underwear. It was a Victorian thing.

Nevada Skye, went back and checked - quite a few we're wearing vests, but it seemed the majority were without. Upon closer examination, I did spot a few wearing suspenders, but, As Muleshoe Bill stated in post #115, suspenders were avoided because they could get hung up.

True. Ole John Wesley Hardin was captured on a train when his pistol got hung up in his suspenders! The Lawdaugs had all the luck that day!

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Well Grizzly Adams, I took your advise from page one and have my drink. Which means I will probably have to delete this post in the morning.

 

I am glad we have gone from defaming Tex to a discussion of B western. As I caught up on all the posts on BW I thought of some of the older folks who have now moved on. Their fixed income barely allowed for them to buy ammo and their BW outfits came from the thrift store. Gawd, they were slow but finishing a stage was a victory and was celebrated. I miss them and their zest for life.

 

Now moving on from maudlin sentimentality as I take another sip. You quoted the rule:

 

ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it
would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television."

 

I have oft wondered about the boys from Arizona who show up in pink, with pink bolos and at EOT wore their pink boxers on top of their Wranglers. I know we have to be sensitive about the significant other issue and a costume is a costume. But, nobody worried about their outfit. So I hope we take their lead when all is said and done and decide that we are there to have fun and shoot.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Well Grizzly Adams, I took your advise from page one and have my drink. Which means I will probably have to delete this post in the morning.

 

I am glad we have gone from defaming Tex to a discussion of B western. As I caught up on all the posts on BW I thought of some of the older folks who have now moved on. Their fixed income barely allowed for them to buy ammo and their BW outfits came from the thrift store. Gawd, they were slow but finishing a stage was a victory and was celebrated. I miss them and their zest for life.

 

Now moving on from maudlin sentimentality as I take another sip. You quoted the rule:

 

ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it

would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television."

 

I have oft wondered about the boys from Arizona who show up in pink, with pink bolos and at EOT wore their pink boxers on top of their Wranglers. I know we have to be sensitive about the significant other issue and a costume is a costume. But, nobody worried about their outfit. So I hope we take their lead when all is said and done and decide that we are there to have fun and shoot.

 

+1 Here's to you, Amigo! Salud!