Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Amen !!! with 33 grains of BP, no problems hearing my rifle shots..... Grizhicks +1 Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hey Blastmaster, if ya want to shoot the rifle last every once in awhile, go ahead, it's only 10 seconds Maybe it'd gimme a chance at ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 One of my home clubs generally had a stage or two that ended with rifle (this is years ago). Then the suggestion was to NOT do that anymore. I couldn't understand why until I got out into the world and shot at some different ranges in other parts of the country. It's not that hard to hold the timer so I can see it out of the corner of my eye and keep the main part of my vision on the shooter's guns. It's not that hard to have my other hand ready to cover the timer so I don't pick up shots from another bay. Even very light .38 or .32 loads were picked up by the timer. What I learned out in the world was not every range is closed in by a giant rock face and a ton of huges trees that hold the sound in. If you are in a flat, open place in the midwest or southwest, the sound just vanishes. I generally don't write stages with rifle last anymore becuase nobody is going to see it when they get to go out into the world. I try to incorporate as much as I can of elements our monthly shooters would find at a big match so they are more prepared when the time comes for them to head off to that first big match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hey Blastmaster, if ya want to shoot the rifle last every once in awhile, go ahead, it's only 10 seconds Maybe it'd gimme a chance at ya! Good to hear from you MM, I am thinking about doing that and working on getting my head screwed on tighter to do just that. LOL. I have given you plenty of chances of advancement in the overall placement within the match by not attending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelin kid #51083 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Nobody has brought up 22's and Buckaroos.... just will not work I have witnessed on very windy days the timer not picking up some shots while operating it.... Some 32 mags, 38's, and 32-20's just are not loud enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Maybe the timer should run until a round is fired with sufficient powder to be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't like the suggestions that the TO should be looking at the timer as the stage is shot. I'd rather he be assisting the shooter to shoot the stag safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't like the suggestions that the TO should be looking at the timer as the stage is shot. I'd rather he be assisting the shooter to shoot the stag safely. Actually the ROI manual calls for the TO to specifically check the timer. Page 8, "Don’t feel you have to record every shot on the timer through the course of fire. Make sure the last one is recorded. It’s the one that really counts, but it is always best to record as many shots as possible in the event of a gun malfunction." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't like the suggestions that the TO should be looking at the timer as the stage is shot. I'd rather he be assisting the shooter to shoot the stag safely. When I went through the RO course, they taught us to get the timer up so that we could be looking at and assisting the shooter, but could cut your eyes over on the last shot to ensure that it was picked up by the timer. In other words, the timer was in our peripheral so you really could see the timer pick up each shot, although you were not looking directly at it. If you are holding the timer down and away from you, you can't do that. But, if you hold it out, up, and in front of you, you can see it. If you have it in your right hand, your thumb can also go over the mic after the last shot to protect the timer so it does not pick up something else. I know when RO for Wild Bunch, doing this has helped a bunch of pards. I stopped counting the number of times that the timer was hit by flying 45ACP brass after the last shot. Because I cut my eyes over to the timer on the last shot, I knew what it was when the shooter was finished shooting. We could go back one split to verify. But if I were not paying attention, you would see the last time that added a second or so to their score. +1 on not ending on the rifle. I have timed a couple of pards shooting Marlins that I could not pick up the time on unless I practically stuck the timer so close to the rifle that it was in the shooter's face. That, to me, would me more distracting to the shooter and I would not be comfortable with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 It took me a while to get the hang of picking up the last rifle shot. It should be some thing specifically taught all new TOs. There is a real skill to positioning the timer close enough to pick up the shot but far enough away not to interfer with the shooter especially on some stages. Often that means placing the timer low to the side of the shooter, just below the rifle, but not always. One of the clubs I shoot at shoots out of a mostly enclosed cabin with two windows adjacent to each other. We shoot the cabin twice. Because of target placement the rifle is staged in one window and the shotgun is staged in the other. Pistols are often divided, one pistol per window. The stage writer likes to shoot one direction and then the other. That sometimes leads to a stage that is rifle, pistol, pistol, shogun followed by a stage that is shotgun, pistol, pistol, rifle. The second one is the stage where you have to be careful to pick up the last rifle shot. New TOs need to be shown where to hold the timer to make sure they pick up the last rifle. A stage writer needs to be very aware of the props and where the TO is going hold the timer if he insists on the rifle going last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Some timers just won't pick up some types of rifles. Add in stages with windows and acoutics and all the rest and it makes it even more difficult. In my opinion don't shoot rifles last! Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Just thoughts, A diligent TO can position himself and timer to pickup rifle shoots. Try it next match. Carry on. Blastmaster we are NOT blessed with 100% diligent TO's so it may be better to not end you stage designs with a rifle even good TO's combined with large stage props, and some rifles / ammo combos', can be tricky some times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't know about the new timers. We are still using the same timers from I guess, 2000. Rifle last is just controversial, not worth it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checotah Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 we are NOT blessed with 100% diligent TO's Yep! Spotters too! But we do the best we can with all other aspects of the hobby. 10-10-4,,,, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you guys would stop with the mouse fart loads maybe we COULD end with the rifle!! Rye Yup! Full case .44-40 BP loads with the bullet compressed on top. Nobody has any trouble hearing any of my shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 KK, it is still a problem. Best policy is still dont do it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yep! Spotters too! But we do the best we can with all other aspects of the hobby. 10-10-4,,,, carry on. for many on the wire there answer is that we need better TO's, yes, as you stated, we do the best we can with what we have just dont end a stage with rifle, just in case you dont have the perfect TO thats all I am saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Big Al #3195 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Perhaps all of the clubs should have a quick review for all posse marshals and R.O.'s (everybody) before each match. It will take only 2 minutes to up front and demonstrate how to do it! This eliminates all confusion, unless you have those who don't pay attention like the students in my classroon Respectfully, CBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Jackson Turner Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Don't do it, KK. You have to play to the masses, not the exceptional. When you think about it, we already have a bit of an integrity problem in the shooting sports; indifferent spotters, lax ROs, etc. No need to exacerbate the problem with missed shots on the timer. Cheers, FJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 for many on the wire there answer is that we need better TO's, yes, as you stated, we do the best we can with what we have just dont end a stage with rifle, just in case you dont have the perfect TO thats all I am saying If anyone bothered to read the rest of my original post!! I only suggested ending with rifle at monthlies and if the stage props enhanced the report of the rifle to the timer...... ie....an enclosure. I also stated that the monthlies I attended were smallish... not hundreds at a monthly with high competitivness!!! I guess stage writers at monthlies are challenged as well... mostly they are,,,,, except at one club I frequent!! That CLUB, last month,,,, ended a stage in an encloser with rifle..... I lost three fillings out of my teeth from the concussion from the BP shooters!!! LOL!! For the others,,,, no problem picking up the rifle shoots... The stage writers knew when and where to write in,,, when to end with rifle.... That is what I am suggesting, and it was a hoot... something different than the usual, pistol, pistol, rifle shot gun stage. Oh well!!! I understand!! Play to the masses!! Like, 'sweep twice from the left!!! first with pistol, then with rifle, finish with SG",,, without movement cause the majority is mid 60's with mo-jo parts not working so well. 10-10-4 here we go!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Poor timer operator is the biggest problem with finishing with a rifle. One of Grizzly Dave's video's shows a T.O., timer in one hand, cigar in the other, the guy never looks at the timer until the shooter is done. He is also on the Rules Committee! LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I don't want to be a TO again. I'll pick up brass and set targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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