Waco Jim Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm looking to buy a Cimarron 1873 short rifle in .357 cal and I would like to know if .38 Spl ammo loaded with 125 Grn TC will feed reliably. If not what are the solutions? I can load .357 brass with the 125 Grn bullet, possibly crimp the .38 out to a suitable OAL for feeding. Send the rifle out to a gunsmith for modification. My Vaquero's are 38/357 and I really would like to shoot the same ammo in both guns. Someone please give me some advice. Waco Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As I remember, I started out with the same rifle and caliber, I never had any issues with the ammo that you noted. Great rifle choice Pard. I have changed to the 20" Uberti with the pistol grip stock in 44-40 and 205 gr. bullets and the magazine holds 20 rounds easily. Ricochet Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Mine's a Codymatic, but still they are made by Uberti. All I've ever shot is .38's in .125 Gr. Never had any feeding issues.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My '73 carbine doesn't like 122gr .38s. It runs like a champ with 147TC bullets from Moulton Lead. These bullets are made to replicate the OAL of .357 using .38 cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I would think that the ML 147's would be ideal in 38 cases for the rifle. But that could mean separate rounds for revolvers and rifle unless you want to shoot 147's in the revolvers too. I'm sure that is doable but possibly a touch less than optimum with regards to gaminess. My 73 feeds smoothest with 357 length ammo but runs pretty darn good with 125gr. TC's in 38 lengths too. It's just a little harder for the carrier to force the shorter rounds back into the mag tube when cycling so that task IS felt (more when mag tube is full) in the action and probably a little harder on the carrier over time. Question, Does anyone use only 357 brass in both revolvers and rifle with any real issue? Seems like it would work OK with a little more powder charge to make up for case volume difference with regards to equalizing velocity between 38 and 357 brass and still be accurate enough to hit large steel plates in your face with reasonable consistency.....at least when using a high loading density powder like Trail Boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 73s are not as particular as Marlins when it comes to overall length of the round. I use 105 TC in all our 73s, but do have some heavier loads, including 125s and 147 g loads and they work well also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 We have no problem runing 38's in our 73's,66 or my marlin. Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My '73 won't feed regular length 38's. It likes 'em loaded out to 1.5". Very easy to do with lead bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I would like to know if .38 Spl ammo loaded with 125 Grn TC will feed reliably. If not what are the solutions? On new Ubertis, the carrier is usually machined so that fairly short .38 special loads will still feed reliably. You can check yourself to see if you will have problems returning the "on deck" cartridge back into the magazine tube. The way the 73 works is that there is an unfired cartridge on the carrier and, of course, perhaps some in the mag tube. The "on deck" cartridge is what I call the next one that is going to come out of the magazine, after you cycle the action. The "ready" cartridge holds the "on deck" cartridge in the tube because of it's length. If the ready cartridge is too short for your carrier, the on-deck cartridge comes out of the magazine far enough to catch on the flat of the horizontal section in the carrier that lifts the ready cartridge. As the carrier comes up, the rim of the on-deck case catches, blocking the carrier from rising. Gun jams. If you look closely at the front edge of the carrier, there is a bevel that acts as the on-deck return. The slope of the bevel pushes the on-deck cartridge back in the tube. The rest of the front of the carrier ensures it stays in the tube while the carrier is up. If your (ready) cartridge length is too short, filing the bevel to give you more relief back away from the front of the carrier will let the carrier push even pretty short on-deck cartridges back in the tube. There's a limit to how short you can make a cartridge run, but it is shorter than most .38 specials loaded with 125 grain bullets. Now, if you get down to 90 grain slugs, you may have to do some serious thinking. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Just to be sure we're talking about the same bullet here: 125 grain truncated flat point. I've put 'em through 73's, 66's, all Uberti made, imported through Taylors, Cimarron, Navy Arms, etc. and NEVER had a problem. I crimp my .38 loads in the groove and they complete to an OAL of ~.141. I don't expect you to have any problems, but I could also probably offer a ton of information that might be helpful to you in avoiding some common mistakes newer shooters make. I'm PM'ing you my phone number. If you want to chat, give me a holler. The advice might actually be worth a nickel more than you pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Mine has fed anything I've put in it! I usually use 160's in it but ran out a couple of times and used my 90 grn pistol ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I would think that the ML 147's would be ideal in 38 cases for the rifle. But that could mean separate rounds for revolvers and rifle unless you want to shoot 147's in the revolvers too. I'm sure that is doable but possibly a touch less than optimum with regards to gaminess. My 73 feeds smoothest with 357 length ammo but runs pretty darn good with 125gr. TC's in 38 lengths too. It's just a little harder for the carrier to force the shorter rounds back into the mag tube when cycling so that task IS felt (more when mag tube is full) in the action and probably a little harder on the carrier over time. Question, Does anyone use only 357 brass in both revolvers and rifle with any real issue? Seems like it would work OK with a little more powder charge to make up for case volume difference with regards to equalizing velocity between 38 and 357 brass and still be accurate enough to hit large steel plates in your face with reasonable consistency.....at least when using a high loading density powder like Trail Boss. You're right. I do load different bullets for rifle and pistol which adds a little time to change-over (need to adjust the seating die). I am able to use the same powder charge though, so change-over isn't really that big of a deal. I feel that the added smoothness in levering the rifle is worth the minor incovenience of different pistol/rifle ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopalong Strong Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I run my 73 with 38 spl and a 125 TC bullet with no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Jim Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 On new Ubertis, the carrier is usually machined so that fairly short .38 special loads will still feed reliably. You can check yourself to see if you will have problems returning the "on deck" cartridge back into the magazine tube. The way the 73 works is that there is an unfired cartridge on the carrier and, of course, perhaps some in the mag tube. The "on deck" cartridge is what I call the next one that is going to come out of the magazine, after you cycle the action. The "ready" cartridge holds the "on deck" cartridge in the tube because of it's length. If the ready cartridge is too short for your carrier, the on-deck cartridge comes out of the magazine far enough to catch on the flat of the horizontal section in the carrier that lifts the ready cartridge. As the carrier comes up, the rim of the on-deck case catches, blocking the carrier from rising. Gun jams. If you look closely at the front edge of the carrier, there is a bevel that acts as the on-deck return. The slope of the bevel pushes the on-deck cartridge back in the tube. The rest of the front of the carrier ensures it stays in the tube while the carrier is up. If your (ready) cartridge length is too short, filing the bevel to give you more relief back away from the front of the carrier will let the carrier push even pretty short on-deck cartridges back in the tube. There's a limit to how short you can make a cartridge run, but it is shorter than most .38 specials loaded with 125 grain bullets. Now, if you get down to 90 grain slugs, you may have to do some serious thinking. Good luck, GJ GJ, Thanks for the excellent explanation, Waco Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I feel that the added smoothness in levering the rifle is worth the minor incovenience of different pistol/rifle ammo. I wouldn't consider the seating die change or having separate ammo for revolver and rifle to be much of an inconvenience at all....especially if the rifle doesn't like eating the shorties, to lessen the chance of a malfunction at a match, or to simply promote smoother rifle action. So nobody so far has tried 357 brass in both revolver and rifle? I understand that minimizing empty space in cartridge is desirable but I was just wondering if anyone has any 1st hand experience to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nice to see this thread as I have a 73 on order and was a bit concerned that my current reloads might not feed well in it. I use 130 gr RNFP crimped in the crimp groove and OAL is 1.444. They feed well in my Marlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So nobody so far has tried 357 brass in both revolver and rifle? I understand that minimizing empty space in cartridge is desirable but I was just wondering if anyone has any 1st hand experience to share. BTW - Wrong way to ask THAT question. There is a ton of difference between someone posting to a topic, and someone having tried something. But, sure, several folks I know shoot 357 in their rifle and pistols. Brass is about 3x more expensive (because there is a ton of 38 special range brass around). And, it's harder to get a good, light, clean load in a .357. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I have three 1873's in 38/357. Me and miss Behavin' have had good luck with all shapes,weights and lengths of bullets. We normally run 125RNFP in the rifles. I have shot 357's in the rifles, but not in a match. I can't see any advantage to running 357's, but can find disadvantages, like 98% of the folks shoot 38's, less worry of 38 brass making it to the press, cheap, easy to find, less powder used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nice to see this thread as I have a 73 on order and was a bit concerned that my current reloads might not feed well in it. I use 130 gr RNFP crimped in the crimp groove and OAL is 1.444. They feed well in my Marlin. I know a lot of people that use 122gr TC bullets in their 73. I just prefer the longer bullets. The less distance the carrier has to push the rounds back into the magazine, the better. My pistol rounds are 122gr TC seated to 1.43 OAL. My 73 doesn't like these. My rifle rounds are 147gr TC seated to 1.53 OAL. My 73 loves these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I can shoot both .38 sp and 357 mag in the Uberti and in my Rugers with the same 125 grain tcfp bullet. No real problems with either. I shoot the .337 mag in the rifle at a slightly heavier loading to make sure I get a good bang out of the muzzle and clang on the target. I shoot the .38 special in the revolvers at a lesser loading to lessen the damage to my hands. If anything comes up, I'll use the 38 special loads in everything and it's fine. You just have to make sure you get the carbon ring out of the cylinder if you want to use .357 mags at the next match. Bflo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Knife Al Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I beleive the OAL is more the determing factor for gun jams in the 73's. I was told to try and keep the OAL at 1.5. I have shot some as short as 1.42 and worked fine if you do not push too hard for speed. I shoot a 105 gr. bullet I get from Badman Bullets and I have them loaded to 1.5 OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 BTW - Wrong way to ask THAT question. There is a ton of difference between someone posting to a topic, and someone having tried something. But, sure, several folks I know shoot 357 in their rifle and pistols. Brass is about 3x more expensive (because there is a ton of 38 special range brass around). And, it's harder to get a good, light, clean load in a .357. Good luck, GJ Thanks GJ, That's really all I was after. I have plenty of .357 brass which is why I was wondering meownself having not had the necessity to give it a whirl as well as fully understanding why .357 length ammunition could run smoothest in a 66 or 73 rifle. Thought my reiterating was appropriate since Waco Jim listed 357 brass as an option in his original question and nobody had commented on that option, until now. Lots of good info here and good luck with your new 73 once acquired Waco Jim , I know you'll love it with 38 or 357 length ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nice to see this thread as I have a 73 on order and was a bit concerned that my current reloads might not feed well in it. I use 130 gr RNFP crimped in the crimp groove and OAL is 1.444. They feed well in my Marlin. Griz, That sounds almost exactly like my rounds. I started loading shorter rounds because at the time I had a 16" 92 trapper and that was the only way I could get 10 in the mag. When I switched to a 73 the rounds worked well so I saw no reason to change. Every gun has it's likes and dislikes, but you should have no problems with that combo. Monco, If you check the load data for different powders you may find one where a mid to heavy 38 load overlaps with a mid to light load in 357, allowing the same powder charge in both cases. I regularly shoot with a pard who claims he does this, but I have no idea what load he uses. Hope this helps, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My 73 shoots 125 TC great. But the 110's and the 147's run great through it also. Don't seem to matter. I just run what ever I have the most on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As I remember, I started out with the same rifle and caliber, I never had any issues with the ammo that you noted. Great rifle choice Pard. I have changed to the 20" Uberti with the pistol grip stock in 44-40 and 205 gr. bullets and the magazine holds 20 rounds easily. Ricochet Roy WOW! Your 20" 73 will hold 20 rounds of 44-40. That's pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 WOW! Your 20" 73 will hold 20 rounds of 44-40. That's pretty impressive. That magazine would make her a little nose heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahoma Harry Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wife and I both have 73's in 357. They will cycle 100 gr. 38's at 1.402 oal up to 125 gr. 357's at 1.570 oal. We use the 38's in the pistols and 357's in the rifles. If a stage comes up with knock downs for the pistols we just switch the 357's to the pistols and load the 38's in the rifles. Keeps things simple at the loading table since we use 2 sided loading strips. One side labeled for the pistols and one side for the rifle. Both rifles cycle anything with the oal between the lengths listed. When we go over to the darkside we normally use 357 brass in both pistols and rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Not being one that likes to fiddle with changing setups a lot I settled on 38 loaded OAL 1.45 so they work in my pistols and wife's Marlin, my '92 and my '73. All are chambered in .357. FWIW the only one I had a problem with going shorter was the '92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I shot .357 with Moulton Lead .125 grain TC bullets for years in my 73 and never had any problems Switched to .38s when my wife got a 73 too and didnt need the .357s that would only feed well in her Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'd sure like to figure out a way to get twenty rounds of .44-40 in my '73! Tell us your secret, Pard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 My 73 will run anything from 1.415 to 1.545 125 gr. TC or RNFP or 158 gr. at the same OAL.It dont matter.It was slicked by two great GUN FIGHTERS.I have just loaded the differant OALs to try them.Some say the shorter the better but I like the longer loads because the carrier does not have to push the next round back in the mag. tube much.Just My feeling.What do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Your ideal cartridge length for a '73: measure the carrier; subtract the thickness of a case rim; there's your perfect no-jam cartridge. Too short and the carrier will struggle to shove the next round back into the mag tube. Too long and the carrier will jam entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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