Mose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pards, I am in the process of gathering up the parts for my soon to arrive Uberti 1873 45 LC rifle. While looking at the Cowboys and Indians web sight I saw something curious. On the main page they say that the 3rd generation of the short stroke kit was available again. On the products page, they offer a 5th generation kit. What this all about? Whose short stroke kit is best? (ya I know) Thanks, Mose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The shorter the stroke the more mechanical effort it takes to lever the gun. When you put in a super short stroke you also need to tune the springs, especially the main spring or the rifle will be difficult to lever. A lot of people liked the easier levering with the slightly "longer" stroke of the 3rd gen short stroke so they reintroduced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al OVERA, SASS#26238 Life Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Pards, I am in the process of gathering up the parts for my soon to arrive Uberti 1873 45 LC rifle. While looking at the Cowboys and Indians web sight I saw something curious. On the main page they say that the 3rd generation of the short stroke kit was available again. On the products page, they offer a 5th generation kit. What this all about? Whose short stroke kit is best? (ya I know) Thanks, Mose BEST functioning S/S kits on the market are the original Poineer Gunworks models. I have used almost all of the ones on the market in customers rifles, and found Pioneer to be far better in fit and function over all the rest for the average shooters. As has been said, the shorter the stroke, the more mechanical advantage you lose. Merry Christmas to all!! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The shorter the stroke the more mechanical effort it takes to lever the gun. When you put in a super short stroke you also need to tune the springs, especially the main spring or the rifle will be difficult to lever. A lot of people liked the easier levering with the slightly "longer" stroke of the 3rd gen short stroke so they reintroduced it. This is especially true for those of us who shoot BP. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahoma Dee Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hey Mose, Larsen E. Pettifogger has the right of it. I, myself, have gone on this merry, but baffling, sad to happiness long gambit. From no stroke kit, to C&I 2nd to 4th Gen's, from Pioneer standard to their shortest ( as of early 2011) to Cody Conagner's method. There are those that tout Jimmy Spurs lever action rifles( which is not a short stroke, but smoothed, I believe) Not certain, but I have yet to purchase that. For now, I have settled on the C&I 3rd gen........at this time. Part of the journey, my friend. Jump on board! Merry Christmas, Oklahoma Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 BEST functioning S/S kits on the market are the original Poineer Gunworks models. I have used almost all of the ones on the market in customers rifles, and found Pioneer to be far better in fit and function over all the rest for the average shooters. As has been said, the shorter the stroke, the more mechanical advantage you lose. Merry Christmas to all!! Al Too bad I didn't know ya... I'd have sold you (2) of them cheap. PGW wouldn't take them back or make it right they were off .005 and wouldn't run. Gave them away so I wouldn't have to make excuses. Dropped in a C&I 3rd Gen in two guns and they ran great. Bought another PGW off the wire (I know, I know)...immediate head space issues. Replaced it with a C&I and voila'! To each his own... none perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 C&I 3rd gen for me. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Yates, SASS #141 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I prefer the C&I third gen kit. It will shorten the stroke by over an inch, take out any slop and time the rifle spot on. Plus it isn't so short that you have a fresh learning curve everytime you want to shoot a different rifle. Not only that but the customer service is top notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie SASS #3445 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 for the uneducated who is C&I thanks cookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 for the uneducated who is C&I thanks cookie Cowboys and Indians - http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Cowboys and Indians. Personally I love my C&I 4th gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 You say that this is a .45 Colt rifle. That gun will throw lots of fouling back from the chamber into the action with most loads (yes, some loads can be developed that will be fairly clean, but not great). A 5th generation will not have a lot of leverage. It will run fast when clean, and slow and hard when it fouls. 5th Gen kits work real well with .38 special rifles. I'd suggest you use a 3rd Generation short stroke, and Whisper springs on the lever and lifter, and a tuned mainspring, to get a slightly longer stroke than the 5th Gen, and yet it will still have enough leverage to run well even when dirty. That has been my experience in two .45 Colt and one .44-40 '73 rifle. I've put in both Pioneer and C&I short strokes with good luck. I had a C&I kit that I had to swap links with the vendor to get a good headspace, and that was a very easy transaction... they are highly recommended. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WymoreWrangler SASS 46187L Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Another one for Cowboys and Indians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 All of the kits have their pros and cons. You won't be able to tell hardly any difference until an action job is done in conjuction with the kit, other than some difference in stroke length. It's a kit that you are puting in a kit gun. Uberti guns are horrible out of the box. The latest ones coming in to the country are the worst quality internaly in 10 years. Buy as many aftermarket parts as you can put in the gun. When you are done it will be the best $1,400.00-$1,500.00 you ever spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 3rd gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The best advice on this page relates less to which kit, but more to how critical a good action job is to the success of any short stroke kit. Putting a kit in minus an action job is like putting drag slicks on a stock Pinto; it's gonna hurt you more than help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Either the C&I 3rd Gen. or Pioneer Gun Works Super Short Stroke work great. Haven't tried any others to give an opinion. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The best advice on this page relates less to which kit, but more to how critical a good action job is to the success of any short stroke kit. Putting a kit in minus an action job is like putting drag slicks on a stock Pinto; it's gonna hurt you more than help you. Very true. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKenzie River Drifter, #74138 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I would suggest trying the different short stroke guns at a local match. Most are very happy to let you try what they have. Then I would suggest purchasing a rifle from a reputable gun smith that has had the bugs worked out of it. Cody, Long Hunter, Cowboys & Indians are a few. I just got my new one from Silver City Rebel, built to Fast Eddies specs and it is a wonderful piece of equipment. Every one of these Uberti built guns are a little different and unless you are pretty familiar you may be opening a very large can of worms. Just the view from my rocking horse. Mckenzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Sat in on an Evil Roy class at the SASS convention a few weeks ago. Roy's opinion on this subject was discussed. He prefers the 3rd Gen kit. Super short/5th Gen are not as smooth ( more energy to operate). My wife has a 3rd Gen kit. I have a 5th Gen kit. I've had problems, hers has worked flawlessly! 1/8" or less difference between the stroke on the riles. Echo on what Buck D. Law say's....Good action job is most of it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You will not get the entire advantage of a very short stroke with a large diameter cartridge. Stick with the 3rd gen. Every 3rd gen kit out there right now works fine....provided a COMPETENT install is performed. If all kit makers were poisoned and I only had enough antidote for one of them, I'd send it to Tennessee............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hey Mose, Larsen E. Pettifogger has the right of it. I, myself, have gone on this merry, but baffling, sad to happiness long gambit. From no stroke kit, to C&I 2nd to 4th Gen's, from Pioneer standard to their shortest ( as of early 2011) to Cody Conagner's method. There are those that tout Jimmy Spurs lever action rifles( which is not a short stroke, but smoothed, I believe) Not certain, but I have yet to purchase that.For now, I have settled on the C&I 3rd gen........at this time. Part of the journey, my friend. Jump on board! Merry Christmas, Oklahoma Dee He uses the same basic method as Cody....they both re-work the standard parts of the gun. It is short stroked less throw than a 3rd but you can't get one anymore from him.......he stopped taking orders for rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You will not get the entire advantage of a very short stroke with a large diameter cartridge. Stick with the 3rd gen. Every 3rd gen kit out there right now works fine....provided a COMPETENT install is performed. If all kit makers were poisoned and I only had enough antidote for one of them, I'd send it to Tennessee............ Ifn I were a bettin man, I would guess that you're talkin about Ron Snover (Ottaway Smith) up around Greeneville, TN. Great feller! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Ifn I were a bettin man, I would guess that you're talkin about Ron Snover (Ottaway Smith) up around Greeneville, TN. Great feller! ..........Widder I've never handled a rifle with one of his kits installed, but I do commonly hear good words about them. For anyone interested, I found this contact information on Texas Mac's web site. I have no idea if it is accurate or not. Ron Snover (Gunsmith) IXL Enterprises, 1245 Delta Valley Rd Greeneville, TN 37745 Phone: (423) 234-0184 Email: rsnover@adelphia.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You will not get the entire advantage of a very short stroke with a large diameter cartridge. Stick with the 3rd gen. Every 3rd gen kit out there right now works fine....provided a COMPETENT install is performed. If all kit makers were poisoned and I only had enough antidote for one of them, I'd send it to Tennessee............ By your example, being that someone would have it in for all link manufactures. I'd keep the antidote for myself and start manufacturing links. The market would be wide open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 By your example, being that someone would have it in for all link manufactures. I'd keep the antidote for myself and start manufacturing links. The market would be wide open! Yah, or....you could get into a business that made real money...like something other than working for cheap cowboys! Merry Christmas, Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yah, or....you could get into a business that made real money...like something other than working for cheap cowboys! Merry Christmas, Colt. Merry Christmas to you to. I guess you didn't hear the news. I'm a millionaire from working cowboy guns. Of course I started out with two million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yah, or....you could get into a business that made real money...like something other than working for cheap cowboys! Merry Christmas, Colt. Who you calling CHEAP? WE ALL have every intention of paying you everything we owe you......someday! And yep, Merry Christmas Great Leviathian! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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