Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Round count 10 rifle, forget the others. Shooter shoots plate rack, misses do not count. If plate was left after 10 rounds expanded, it would be counted as a miss. After plate rack is cleaned, any remaining rounds on dump target, misses on dump target count as misses. Shooter shoots at plate rack, racks one live round out. With last remaining round, knocks final plate down. Whats the call? MT The MD at the match said since misses don't count, except on the dump target, the ejected round is a no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Instructions said fire 10 rounds. 9 fired = 1 miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 One miss, any ejected rounds not replaced are misses..... Shooter would also get a "P" for shooting dump target before the "plate rack was cleaned" ( Not clear in post)....... Mink......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 ...shot 9, instructions were to shoot 10. All the plates were hit with 9 of the 10 rounds, the 10th should have been on the dump target-no reload = 1 miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 One miss, any ejected rounds not replaced are misses..... Shooter would also get a "P" for shooting dump target before the "plate rack was cleaned" ( Not clear in post)....... Mink......... I thought I was clear, last round, he knocked the last plate down, so never went to dump target. One spotter did though, thought he should have been given a "P" for not following instructions of engaging/firing 10 rounds. The MDs decision was that misses were not counted on engaging the plates, so an ejected round, not replaced would have been a miss normally. But not on the plate rack. So he nullified the "P" and miss which all 3 spotters called. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Easy one miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Miss.... kind of a shame that a MD can't make this simple of a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The MDs decision was that misses were not counted on engaging the plates, so an ejected round, not replaced would have been a miss normally. But not on the plate rack. So he nullified the "P" and miss which all 3 spotters called. MT So, all the shooter had to do was jack out the first 9 rounds and shoot the tenth round at the plate rack and have "CLEAN", as the missed didn't count on the rack? Correcto?? Have no idea where the P would have been called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 So, all the shooter had to do was jack out the first 9 rounds and shoot the tenth round at the plate rack and have "CLEAN", as the missed didn't count on the rack? Correcto?? Have no idea where the P would have been called. When it was my turn to shoot, I asked if I could do that. It was 1 teeny plate, way out there. You had 10 shots to knock er down. MT I did err, and should have added, if plate was left after 10 rounds, it would be counted as a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Bandit Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Clean...........Bandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Round count 10 rifle, forget the others. Shooter shoots plate rack, misses do not count. If plate was left after 10 rounds expanded, it would be counted as a miss. After plate rack is cleaned, any remaining rounds on dump target, misses on dump target count as misses. Shooter shoots at plate rack, racks one live round out. With last remaining round, knocks final plate down. Whats the call? MT The MD at the match said since misses don't count, except on the dump target, the ejected round is a no call. So the shooter 'used' all ten rounds to knock down the plates and never got to the dump target? Misses on the plates only do not count per the OP. A jacked out round in any circumstance is a MISS. The shooter has the option of reloading to avoid that but it is the shooters choice to do so. in this case, if all the shooter was engaging was the plate rack, used all ten rounds to knock the plates down (including the jacked out round) and used the last round to take down the last plate, sounds clean to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A miss for the jacked out round. Don't make it too complicated. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Miss. PENALTY OVERVIEW5-SECOND PENALTIES Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A "miss" is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm. Target placement should always allow a shooter the opportunity for a clean miss to be scored without argument. Overlapping targets of the same type should be avoided if at all possible and should not cause a Procedural "trap" by making it difficult to determine the shooter's intent when engaging the targets. • Each missed target. • Each unfired round. • Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake. • Each target hit with "illegally acquired" ammunition. I don't read anything in the OP to nullify that. Only stated that "misses" on KD wouldn't count, but a KD left standing and misses on dump plate would be a miss... A stage description should be specific when countering a SASS convention or stated penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Miss. I don't read anything in the OP to nullify that. Only stated that "misses" on KD wouldn't count, but a KD left standing and misses on dump plate would be a miss... A stage description should be specific when countering a SASS convention or stated penalty.[/font] So if there are 5 knockdowns and shooter loading 10 (and remainder to go on dump target after 5 KD are handled), shooter knocks down all 5 with first 5 rounds, then jacks out 5 rounds, in some folks opinion, shooter is clean, I would say 5 misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Round count 10 rifle, What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A miss for the jacked out round. Don't make it too complicated. Fillmore Exactly. Let's not overthink this thing, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Bandit Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Jeez................ a jacked out round that is not replaced is a miss......misses on plate rack do not count(read the dang insrucions) shooter kknocked down all targets on plate rack using all rounds in rifle ........CLEAN..........................Bandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Annie SASS #37063 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Most I've seen do it shoot plates 1-4 then shoot rounds 5-9 where plate #4 was (these aren't misses because misses on the plates are not counted) and then place the 10th round on the last plate. No remaining rounds so none are required on the dump target. Gamey? Yes. Allowed? Yes! Shooter is taking a risk that they don't miss the #5 plate but the benefit is they don't have to shoot the dump target. And -- Yes I have done it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hello MT, PaleWolf has clarified this and it is in the ROI, page 19. "Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or “ejected” is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description, or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot." This exact situation has been in one of those clarifying posts. Round count was 10, not 9. Shooter only fired nine. MISS! Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Bandit Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I stand corrected and apologize for being stoopid.................Bandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Jeez................ a jacked out round that is not replaced is a miss......misses on plate rack do not count(read the dang insrucions) shooter kknocked down all targets on plate rack using all rounds in rifle ........CLEAN..........................Bandit Bandit, Ain't anyone arguin' that (although if you read the OP again, look carefully at the 3rd sentence 1). It's the UNFIRED round that's being counted as a miss, not an actual miss. How can you score any kind of "hit" with a round that wasn't actually fired? 1 If plate was left after 10 rounds expanded, it would be counted as a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hello MT, PaleWolf has clarified this and it is in the ROI, page 19. "Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or “ejected” is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description, or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot." This exact situation has been in one of those clarifying posts. Round count was 10, not 9. Shooter only fired nine. MISS! Regards, Allie Mo Hi Allie, That's the same way I looked at it. But then I wasn't in charge, just a shooter. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I stand corrected and apologize for being stoopid.................Bandit No, not stoopid. Believe me, I've been wrong. Our rules are getting more complicated all the time. That makes it tough to remember everything accurately. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goliath, SASS #41359 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Sounds like I might know who the MD is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 It's a 5 second penalty for each unfired round. A miss is also a 5 Second penalty. They carry the same penalty but are DIFFERENT. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 It's a 5 second penalty for each unfired round. A miss is also a 5 Second penalty. They carry the same penalty but are DIFFERENT. Stan So, an unfired round is always a miss, but a miss is not always an unfired round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 He finally shot the plate down with his last (9th) round.. since he's already jacked one out... He failed to reload the required 10th. round (for he's only shot 9) and put it on the dump target... He missed the dump target by failing to reload... Get a rope.. hang him.... Naw... just a miss... 5 seconds gets added to his time Rance Thinkin' an unfired round is a miss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Rance, Take a look at the RO1 on page 24 under PENALTY OVERVIEW and 5 Second Penalties. There are several different ones listed. MISS Is only one of them. Most folks refer to ALL the 5 second penalty types as MISSES because it is easier understand though not technically correct. It does make these types of calls more difficult to make correctly. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 OK.. I'll go along with ya Santa Fe... but.. He did miss the dump target with his 10th. round because he had failed to reload and had an unfired round Rance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 When ya' do these things it's always nice to add a note at the bottom of the stage IF it differs from SASS rules OR if it's something you don't see often just to remind folks of the intent of the stage. A note of Ten shots MUST be fired would have avoided this mess. I'm not saying we should have a footnote for every rule but for these type stages it's not a bad idea because it's easy to muddy up the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 When ya' do these things it's always nice to add a note at the bottom of the stage IF it differs from SASS rules OR if it's something you don't see often just to remind folks of the intent of the stage. A note of Ten shots MUST be fired would have avoided this mess. I'm not saying we should have a footnote for every rule but for these type stages it's not a bad idea because it's easy to muddy up the water. I thought that was handled when the stage says 10 rifle, 10 pistol, 4 + shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Miss.... kind of a shame that a MD can't make this simple of a call. Bro; You are absolutly correct, and your statement applies not only to the MD, but to everyone. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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