VOLUNTEER or SHUT UP?

[BJT]

You are right, if I have turned eyes inward toward the soul, then I might be ready to sleep, perchance to dream............

 

Just sayin'....

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

On Volunteer help. I would rather see more volunteering at posse duties, instead of hide and seeking during a match. Most of the matches have a good report on helping set-up, and almost all the people help tear down afterwards, its during the match that there's a lacking, and some people doing almost a whole stage of duties. MT

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

99.9999% of our experiences with CAS folks are positive. For me, it is WHY, beyond loving to shoot, that I play this game. For some perhaps, it has been a 100% positive experience and it seems that some of those who have never seen the .0001%…simply can't fathom that it exists. I've noted that that the tendency here on the Wire (or on the range for that matter) is when someone encounters that .0001% that is negative and chooses to say something about it, the reaction is to shoot the messenger instead of taking an open minded look and attempting to improve, or possibly totally correct, the situation being addressed. It is just SO much easier to shoot the messenger.

 

So, Brother King, choose your poison. Before stating your opinion, did you:

 

1) Donate the land for range

 

2) Donate the targets

 

3) Paint the targets

 

4) Set the targets

 

5) Build the stages

 

6) Write the stages

 

7) Pay an entry fee

 

8) Work the posse

 

9) Design the web site

 

10) Maintain the web site

 

11) Provide the scores sheets

 

12) Donate massive amounts of money

 

13) Recruit new members

 

14) Loaned guns

 

15) Loaned gear

 

16) Mentored a new shooter

 

17) Mentored an old shooter

 

18) Helped an old lady cross the street

 

19) Shot a chicken killing fox…or a snake that was eating chicken eggs

 

20) Etc.

 

If you failed to answer yes to any of the above (19 of 20 counts for nothing and anything not on the list that you have done otherwise does not count), I can only advise you to "Cowboy up, shut up and shoot, or just stay home." There, messenger shot.

 

Moral of the story: It's dangerous to state an opinion and facts are even dangerous...er.

 

OR: Just because a wheel squeaks does not mean the wheel is the problem.

 

 

Disclaimer: The above is humor or least a weak attempt at humor, but at its heart lies a deep message intended to send your soul strait to shooter's heaven. Smile, it's better than milk and we all know milk does your body good.

 

Edit: My emoticons are not working. Close your eyes and imagine smiley faces.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Do you know why people tend to 'shoot the messenger'?

 

1) He's there.

2) If you shoot him quick maybe no one else will hear.

3) You only need one bullet.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Miss Allie you are going to love possum hollow then. No attitudes and if one comes up it gets squared away real quick. More often then not you will have to fight to do possie choirs.

Howdy Pard,

 

I've met most of the PH Gang and shot with quite a few of them.

 

All I have to say is, I them.

 

BTW, one of them has even met most of my sisters.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who thinks acquiring multiple aliases is too much fun" Mo

[Madd Mike #8595]

Let's see...I pay my dues...my match fees...and in return I have the following expectations:

 

Safe Stages

Scores

 

Gee, is that asking too much???

 

Not everyone can volenteer. They barly have enough time to shoot. But I guess only volenteers have a right to speak up.

 

Oy!

 

 

I dont believe that to be true

 

what I do believe, is that

sometimes NON-vonteers, may expect to much from the few Volenteers there R

 

thats my story, and I am a gunna stick to it

 

volenteers are busy folks too

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I'd welcome the constant bitcher if he/she is bitching about things that I wasn't aware of...regardless of whether they have solutions or not.

 

Sorry, but I think the old blanket statement of not wanting to hear complaints if there is not solution attached is weak and lazy statement.

 

You know, a lot of money is spent on market research just to gather complaints...without solutions.

 

Oy!

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I dont believe that to be true

 

what I do believe, is that

sometimes NON-vonteers, may expect to much from the few Volenteers there R

 

thats my story, and I am a gunna stick to it

 

volenteers are busy folks too

 

MM, the fact is that the volunteers are supporting an effort to provide a SASS/CAS match. Why do they do this? Because they want to have a club...and put on matches. There comes with this desire a need to provide certain things to their customers WITHOUT the requirement for those customers to return the favor of volunteering.

 

Why some folks want to demonize those that don't volunteer is beyond me.

 

Busy? Yea...some are busier then others. Some live close enough to the range to make volunteering a do-able act.

 

So, let's see...I've brought in 5 new shooters this year...does that "Count" for anything? I was on radio today promoting SASS/CAS...does that count for anything????? Or is it such that I MUST go do scores...or setup...or write stages (which I've done) in order for me to have a right to bitch??

 

You're a great advocate for this game and I consider that a great value. You've written some great articles for the CC...and you've traveled and promoted SASS all over the place. Now...isn't this worth something??

 

Phantom

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

I'd welcome the constant bitcher if he/she is bitching about things that I wasn't aware of...regardless of whether they have solutions or not.

 

I agree. The match director or club officers may not be aware of a problem that is an easy fix and makes things better for shooters. I welcome constructive criticism, and I even posted on our home page, "We welcome constructive criticism concerning our club matches. Our goal is to serve you better. We listen. Please give us feedback via our Update link below." I stand by that.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

I am not as smart as you bk, so please tell me more, I do not quite understand.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

I am not as smart as you bk, so please tell me more, I do not quite understand.

I wish that I knew how to help you, VS. Which part is the hard part for you?

[Utah Bob #35998]

Like most volunteer supported organizations I've ever been associated with you will find a core of folks who are extremely dedicated and go above and beyond to put on events, keep records, recruit new members and generally keep things running. Their motivations for doing this are as varied as the types of hats you see at a shoot.

Then you have a small percentage that wouldn't help out if their life depended on it. Fortunately their numbers are few.

 

The bulk of the membership will help out when asked but generally participates for their enjoyment and may not. have the time, dedication, or resources to volunteer extensively. They still should have a say in the overall operations as they are dues paying members and without them the organization becomes a small, elite group that eventually fades away. I've seen it before.

 

The volunteers who work hard deserve recognition for their efforts. The rest of the members deserve respect for their participation. One group can't exist without the other.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

UB - isn't it funny...that what ya just said pretty much applies to everything in life?

 

[Grizzly Dave]

Like most volunteer supported organizations I've ever been associated with you will find a core of folks who are extremely dedicated and go above and beyond to put on events, keep records, recruit new members and generally keep things running. Their motivations for doing this are as varied as the types of hats you see at a shoot.

Then you have a small percentage that wouldn't help out if their life depended on it. Fortunately their numbers are few.

 

The bulk of the membership will help out when asked but generally participates for their enjoyment and may not. have the time, dedication, or resources to volunteer extensively. They still should have a say in the overall operations as they are dues paying members and without them the organization becomes a small, elite group that eventually fades away. I've seen it before.

 

The volunteers who work hard deserve recognition for their efforts. The rest of the members deserve respect for their participation. One group can't exist without the other.

 

Well said UB.

 

Grizz

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Their motivations for doing this are as varied as the types of hats you see at a shoot.

 

UB, all good words. Relating to the quoted sentence, it has been my observation that the willingness to listen to complaints and act on the legitimate ones is typically directly linked to their motivation. Fortunately, most CAS volunteers have the correct motivation. I could name a ton of these folks, but one that comes to mind is a man that I've never met, but read enough of what he has to say here that I believe I could confidently say I'd like to attend any match that Okie Sawbones puts on.

 

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

UB, all good words. Relating to the quoted sentence, it has been my observation that the willingness to listen to complaints and act on the legitimate ones is typically directly linked to their motivation. Fortunately, most CAS volunteers have the correct motivation. I could name a ton of these folks, but one that comes to mind is a man that I've never met, but read enough of what he has to say here that I believe I could confidently say I'd like to attend any match that Okie Sawbones puts on.

Hi Buck,

 

Me too! I hope to eat something he and Wildcat fix too!

 

When I get my trailer, I want to attend their annual match!

 

 

Allie

 

PS Y'all come to the Convention! That is where I had the pleasure of meeting Okie Sawbones and Wildcat Carole. Although, I go by myself, the great folks who attend always make me feel like I'm at a "family" reunion, with my favorite family members!

[Madd Mike #8595]

MM, the fact is that the volunteers are supporting an effort to provide a SASS/CAS match. Why do they do this? Because they want to have a club...and put on matches. There comes with this desire a need to provide certain things to their customers WITHOUT the requirement for those customers to return the favor of volunteering.

 

Why some folks want to demonize those that don't volunteer is beyond me.

 

Busy? Yea...some are busier then others. Some live close enough to the range to make volunteering a do-able act.

 

So, let's see...I've brought in 5 new shooters this year...does that "Count" for anything? I was on radio today promoting SASS/CAS...does that count for anything????? Or is it such that I MUST go do scores...or setup...or write stages (which I've done) in order for me to have a right to bitch??

 

You're a great advocate for this game and I consider that a great value. You've written some great articles for the CC...and you've traveled and promoted SASS all over the place. Now...isn't this worth something??

 

Phantom

 

the stuff you do and have listed above issssssssssss volenteering

it all takes a combination of (time-energy-$) to help (volenterr-aly)too grow the cause

rock on man

 

I am suprised that some might think that aint volenteering???????? I learned something

 

Let it be known that

anything done outside of pay-and shoot, then scoot

to help grow SASs / CAS is wonderfun and I consider it as volenttering

i am sure others will agree

[Utah Bob #35998]

UB - isn't it funny...that what ya just said pretty much applies to everything in life?

 

 

Not rocket science is it?

[Artic Fox, SASS# 39883]

On Volunteer help. I would rather see more volunteering at posse duties, instead of hide and seeking during a match. Most of the matches have a good report on helping set-up, and almost all the people help tear down afterwards, its during the match that there's a lacking, and some people doing almost a whole stage of duties. MT

 

MT

 

Perfect example of where the "problem" may be rooted. Setup and takedown, sufficient help. Posse duties, not so good. We're talking about the same people in the same time frame. Is the problem really with "the people"?

 

The 'problem' is far more with the style of leadership and exercise of good people skills. Far better to have posse (or club) leadership that engages every (or most) folks in the whole process than a few heros who can, and will do it all. Very quickly, those overworked determine the 'problem' to be the ones who don't dive in just like them. I am one of "Them", but learning more all the time how to engage others with the dignity and respect they should have.

 

Example: Three years ago I quit running the timer while leading a posse. Instead, I shag brass and try to keep track of what is going on to keep the posse safe, fun, working and moving. Great success! Any posse can be a great posse if all (or most) can be engaged in the process. There were some folks another posse leader said would not work at all, hide and seek, like you spoke. Put 'em on my posse. One was experienced enough, I asked him to be a timer operator for me. After a few matches, it was like he had found a new source of life and interest in the whole game, especially the posse working part.

 

Many cowboys just need some respect and engaging to become 'fully involved'.

 

Artic

[Lester Moore SASS#9736]

Hola Fox:

You are correct, politely ask anyone to help and they will.

 

Never had any trouble with help on my posse's.

 

Lester

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Like most volunteer supported organizations I've ever been associated with you will find a core of folks who are extremely dedicated and go above and beyond to put on events, keep records, recruit new members and generally keep things running. Their motivations for doing this are as varied as the types of hats you see at a shoot.

Then you have a small percentage that wouldn't help out if their life depended on it. Fortunately their numbers are few.

 

The bulk of the membership will help out when asked but generally participates for their enjoyment and may not. have the time, dedication, or resources to volunteer extensively. They still should have a say in the overall operations as they are dues paying members and without them the organization becomes a small, elite group that eventually fades away. I've seen it before.

 

The volunteers who work hard deserve recognition for their efforts. The rest of the members deserve respect for their participation. One group can't exist without the other.

 

That pretty well sums it up in a nutshell, and it isn't going to change. Neither good nor bad -- just the way it is. You can bang your head on the wall, or just accept it and drive on.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I certainly have no problem with criticism after an annual match. In fact, I ask for it. I figure that is the best way to make sure I put on the best match possible.

 

I see local matches a little differently than most of you, I guess. Local, monthly matches tend to be more about the fun and less about the competition, in my opinion, and have far fewer volunteers to accomplish all of the tasks. The folks working pay the same as everyone else. They just put in a lot more time and effort to try to make the match as good as they can for everyone. They are not getting any more out of it than you are. They don't owe you any more than you owe them. So, I figure, if you see something that needs to be improved upon, you can mention it nicely or offer to do the job yourself. But if you just come shoot and enjoy the fruits of others' blood and sweat, don't bitch. If you do they're liable to drop the whole taco in your lap with a suggestion of where you can put it.

 

That's my view.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

the stuff you do and have listed above issssssssssss volenteering

it all takes a combination of (time-energy-$) to help (volenterr-aly)too grow the cause

rock on man

 

I am suprised that some might think that aint volenteering???????? I learned something

 

Let it be known that

anything done outside of pay-and shoot, then scoot

to help grow SASs / CAS is wonderfun and I consider it as volenttering

i am sure others will agree

 

Hmmm...guess yer right...but the only volunteering that folks seem to care about are the one's that are plainly visable.

 

Cheers my friend!

[Blastmaster]

I certainly have no problem with criticism after an annual match. In fact, I ask for it. I figure that is the best way to make sure I put on the best match possible.

 

I see local matches a little differently than most of you, I guess. Local, monthly matches tend to be more about the fun and less about the competition, in my opinion, and have far fewer volunteers to accomplish all of the tasks. The folks working pay the same as everyone else. They just put in a lot more time and effort to try to make the match as good as they can for everyone. They are not getting any more out of it than you are. They don't owe you any more than you owe them. So, I figure, if you see something that needs to be improved upon, you can mention it nicely or offer to do the job yourself. But if you just come shoot and enjoy the fruits of others' blood and sweat, don't bitch. If you do they're liable to drop the whole taco in your lap with a suggestion of where you can put it.

 

That's my view.

 

 

Pretty much how I think too, especially the second paragraph. There is a difference between big match volunteering and monthly matches.

 

 

Some people on this thread paint a pretty broad volunteering brush stroke. Jawing about SASS on the Wire, coffee shop or street corner is, I suppose (is) volunteering, but it really doesn't do a thing at the monthly/annual match to make it run smoother or make the event more pleasent. Mentoring is too, but these activities really do not help , for example, get the brass picked up faster or the scores (orignal beef that started this thread) to be posted sooner or the steel to be reset in a timely manner so the stage runs smoothly and efficiently.

 

Just look around you the next time when you are on a posse. See pards doing multi duties (scoring, setting steel and pu brass)? If not, then things are good. If you see pards doing multi duties, then what is wrong with that picture? Also ask who wrote the stages and set/painted the steel, who brought the cookies and the pard behind the registration desk. Then thank them all.

 

I have, on rare occassions, been on a posse with a bunch of shooters that for one reason or another, couldn't/wouldn't work. That was OK, I could multi task, but I sure didn't want to hear their complaints,,,,, which 99% of them didn't say a peep.

 

I haven't even mentioned all the volunteer hours that a few pards at each club puts in for range maintenance (weed control, grass cutting, painting, fixing, cleaning up).... you know work parties. Thank you all.

 

 

 

Blastmaster ( who greatly appreciates all the volunteers at each an every match to make it happen.. who doesn't necessarily need the monthly scores immediately)

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Pretty much how I think too, especially the second paragraph. There is a difference between big match volunteering and monthly matches.

 

 

Some people on this thread paint a pretty broad volunteering brush stroke. Jawing about SASS on the Wire, coffee shop or street corner is, I suppose (is) volunteering, but it really doesn't do a thing at the monthly/annual match to make it run smoother or make the event more pleasent. Mentoring is too, but these activities really do not help , for example, get the brass picked up faster or the scores (orignal beef that started this thread) to be posted sooner or the steel to be reset in a timely manner so the stage runs smoothly and efficiently.

 

Just look around you the next time when you are on a posse. See pards doing multi duties (scoring, setting steel and pu brass)? If not, then things are good. If you see pards doing multi duties, then what is wrong with that picture? Also ask who wrote the stages and set/painted the steel, who brought the cookies and the pard behind the registration desk. Then thank them all.

 

I have, on rare occassions, been on a posse with a bunch of shooters that for one reason or another, couldn't/wouldn't work. That was OK, I could multi task, but I sure didn't want to hear their complaints,,,,, which 99% of them didn't say a peep.

 

I haven't even mentioned all the volunteer hours that a few pards at each club puts in for range maintenance (weed control, grass cutting, painting, fixing, cleaning up).... you know work parties. Thank you all.

 

 

 

Blastmaster ( who greatly appreciates all the volunteers at each an every match to make it happen.. who doesn't necessarily need the monthly scores immediately)

 

Yer right - "Jawing" about SASS does nothing to make a match run smoother or make it more enjoyable...but without bringing in new folks, your posse is going to get smaller and smaller...until perhaps it's just you shooting as a one person posse...and that couldn't be very enjoyable.

 

So now we are including Posse chores as volunteering?

 

Dang...I just thought that the "Work" done on one's posse was just part of the Job...wow...I'm now enlightened!

 

[Shooting Bull]

 

 

So now we are including Posse chores as volunteering?

 

Dang...I just thought that the "Work" done on one's posse was just part of the Job...wow...I'm now enlightened!

 

 

So as to more fully explain my first post yes, I consider posse chorse as volunteering. FAR too many folks think all they have to do is show up and shoot. They let everybody else do things like pick brass, count, man the unloading table, etc. And THOSE are the folks I was talking about when I said I probably wouldn't give their complaints too much weight.

[Griff]

I've heard it said that in any organization, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the membership... personally, I believe the percentage of work done is much higher and by far fewer. Having been in both parts of that balance, I understand the pros and cons of being in either category. What works for me, is that I appreciate the work done by others, and if asked, I'll try to offer what little help I can be. Whether that's meaningful or not, is for others to decide. I just do what I can. Sometimes that's as little as showin' up and participating. If I'm asked and can or have time to do more, I'm willing. But, sometimes, it's just better to stay out of the way of those that are more practiced than I.

 

There's something to be said about being generous with your praise and stingy with your criticism. Praise is the grease that keeps the wheels moving without quite so much squeeking. If you just HAVE to criticize something, injecting a little praise to soften the impact ain't a bad thing. Something along the lines of, "Mr. Range Master, I loved your stages this month... next month, could you put in a few more shotgun rounds." Knowing that any club officer will never please all the people all the time, making sure they know they are at least pleasing some of the people some of the time is likely the only reward you can give them.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

I don't think of posse chores as volunteering. Posse chores IMNSHO are just plain courtesy to everyone else who you shoot with and part of Spirit of the Game.

 

There's just something not right with shooters who are healthy enough to be there but can't ever find a job that suits them.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I just don't count doing one's fair share of posse duties as Volunteering.

 

But that's just me.

 

[Blastmaster]

I just don't count doing one's fair share of posse duties as Volunteering.

 

But that's just me.

 

 

 

Something we can agre upon.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Is it as simple as a club can charge a fee to those who do not volunteer or discount a membership to those who do?

[Complicated Lady]

Is it as simple as a club can charge a fee to those who do not volunteer or discount a membership to those who do?

I would expect major problems with a system like that....

 

how much is enough to not pay the fee?

 

and then we get back to the discussion about what actually constitues "volunteering"

verses just doing your part as a good posse member

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

I believe I am missing the emotive content of previous posts.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I'd welcome the constant bitcher if he/she is bitching about things that I wasn't aware of...regardless of whether they have solutions or not.

Sorry, but I think the old blanket statement of not wanting to hear complaints if there is not solution attached is weak and lazy statement.

You know, a lot of money is spent on market research just to gather complaints...without solutions.

Oy!

Well said.

In any volunteer hobby organization, you have a core or people who live and breathe for their hobby. They’re always there at every event, do the majority of the work and are the ones who always get the media coverage and kudos (which normally is how it should be). If they’re decent people, they’ll realize that others in the group or at the events don’t have the same personal commitment that they have to that hobby and won’t lord their ‘superior’ commitment over others.

While I don’t see this so much in CAS, I often see it in other interests I have.

For most people it boils down to this:

• Those who are into the hobby less than you are slackers
  
• Those who are into the hobby more than you are don't have a life

[Snakebite]

Interesting thread. No doubt that volunteers make it happen in this game, and we would not have the game if it were not for volunteers. Most volunteers do it because they enjoy what they are doing.. it not only serves others, but it also serves them. It is also no doubt that everyone can not volunteer much of their time. However, I would hope that everyone would do their best to help out when and where they can. Volunteers are often taken for granted, and we all need to, at least once and a while, let them know that we appreciate what they are doing... even if we don't necessarily agree with how they are doing it. Lets face it, one of the best ways to get things done the way we want done, is to get involved and help do it.

 

All that being said, listening to folks concerns is one of the best ways to judge how effective we are at what we are doing. Nobody should be told to just "Shut-Up". However, it is much easier to listen to someone who brings a legitimate complaint if that person does so in a polite manner. It is difficult to remain unbiased if that person just jump in your face and "Bitches". Nobody that I know likes that kind of approach, and even if their issue has merit it has a much less chance of being addressed if the delivery is offensive.

 

JMO.

 

 

Snakebite