VOLUNTEER or SHUT UP?

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

There's a thread running, like many threads I've read on this Forum in the past, that suggests that if you REALLY care about seeing your scores in a timely manner then you better get up off your dead a$$ and on your dying feet and VOLUNTEER. Without volunteering then you're just part of the problem.

 

Yeah, we've all read this assertion about any number of concerns, laments, complaints, suggestions in the past. And, in the end someone suggests that the only course unless you're volunteering is to get a big cup of... well... be quiet.

 

REALLY? Well, I'm game.... let me assert an alternative view:

 

I don't shoot in order to work. I work in order to shoot. That said, I've promoted a couple of national level shooting events, sponsored a few more, been involved in club, state and national politics involving shooting, won a few ribbons and trophies, a national, state, regional, money and prizes etc etc over nearly 40 years of shooting some-darn-thing. I swore that I would do my best to avoid the politics when I started CAS. WHY? Because as we all know, no matter what the venue, organization or cause, politics can get dicey to the point of killing the enjoyment of almost anything.

 

Plus, with my schedule and other commitments I just can't take on anymore responsibility.

 

So I just don't. I pay my money. I show up, I do my best to contribute, work, be productive, courteous of the club, etc. Plus, my current circumstances find me all over the place.

 

Does that mean that a naturally observant and verbose feller like me should just SHUT UP; don't like it- then take my money elsewhere? Or can I have a say? Like the fellow says, "Don't complain if you're not willing to say it to my face."

 

So, if you charge a shooter 10, 15, 20, 100, 200 and he has an opinion then should he just take it down the road if he's not willing to be President and/ or clean up your outfit or should he speak up?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Bro King,

 

all I can say is I'd love to jaw with you bout nearly anything at the local Mexican eatery.

 

We would trully have a great time.

 

 

..........Widder

[Matthew Duncan]

A cowboy would talk man to man with the cowpoke when there is a "concern".

 

Not behind his back on a public forum

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

Here's my thoughts:

 

I am a dues paying member of a CAS club. I have a right to my opinion AND I have a right to express it. I also have a responsibility to support the club and do what is necessary to see that the organization continues in operation and prospers. There are always "show up and shoot" members. But there MUST be volunteers to keep the club going. Without volunteers there will not be a club for someone to "show up and shoot."

 

Over the years I have observed that many volunteers (in many types of organizations, not just CAS clubs) get burned out or at the very least get tired of their "jobs." They need a break. They need to move to the "show up and shoot" crowd and let others step up and contribute time and talents. Many of those same volunteers are reluctant to "let go" of their jobs because of many reasons, not the least of which is that if they don't do it no one else will. There are many examples of that happening, but many examples of people stepping up to the plate to do what needs to be done.

 

Guess I'm saying one should be VERY careful how one states a criticism or suggestion. I know I've been in sitations where I've been tired to the bone, frustrated and ready to throw in the towel. All it would have taken was someone to say something the least bit unkind or critical and I would have said, "turn around, bend over and you can have my job." Luckily, no one said anything at those times so I didn't have to make the above statement.

 

Think about what you say, who you're saying it to, when you say it and why.

[Go West]

It sounds like I would appreciate your services on a posse I'm on since it is easier on everyone when the duties are shared.

I can't speak for everyone, but the shooting I do is for stress relief and to have a good time. I like the shoots that are inclusive rather than exclusive (welcome folks that attend). Cut 'em some slack and if you don't feel good about it after a time, then I guess it's time to move on. Whether you share your perceptions with the "offenders", is up to you.

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

I don't shoot in order to work. I work in order to shoot. That said, I've promoted a couple of national level shooting events, sponsored a few more, been involved in club, state and national politics involving shooting, won a few ribbons and trophies, a national, state, regional, money and prizes etc etc over nearly 40 years of shooting some-darn-thing. I swore that I would do my best to avoid the politics when I started CAS. WHY? Because as we all know, no matter what the venue, organization or cause, politics can get dicey to the point of killing the enjoyment of almost anything.

 

You said a mouthful there, BK...

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Let's see...I pay my dues...my match fees...and in return I have the following expectations:

 

Safe Stages

Scores

 

Gee, is that asking too much???

 

Not everyone can volenteer. They barly have enough time to shoot. But I guess only volenteers have a right to speak up.

 

Oy!

 

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

Volunteer or shut up? I have a third option available. I sponsor 5 local annual matches every year and have for the past 5 years. And by "sponsor" I'm not just talking about a small donation or two. If I was told "shut up" about getting scores posted faster, then I guess that club could do without a sponsor in the future. Even if I wasn't a sponsor, were I told to shut up, then that club could do without my membership dues going forward. It's not too much to ask for....posting scores in a timely manner....is it?

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

If everyone does what they honestly can, we'll be OK on volunteers. SOMETIMES we're more'n OK. I have showed up for work parties and had more men than needed, and ended up leaving after a couple of hours as half the folks were standing around talking with nothing to do. I've also worked a few that were short-handed, and we got it done after a while.....

 

BUT, of late I've had other "stuff" that got in the way of much volunteering. I still pay my dues, and support the club as a stage sponsor for the state shoot, and of course do my posse chores, etc on match day, but that's MY personal limit right now. Others are stepping up, and still others have faded from any kind of "helping" aside from posse chores.

 

It all averages out, and NO, the ability to speak up is NOT connected to what yer doing TODAY to help. AAMOF just BECAUSE ya volunteer doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid than the next guy. Ya volunteer to SUPPORT your club, not to "take over".....

 

I DO appreciate how OUR club has gotten more "modern" in the scoring and other communications. We USED TO have a paper newsletter ya got IN THE MAIL about 3 weeks after a monthly shoot that contained scores. Now the SCORES are generally emailed within 6-24 hours of the shoot finishing, and the newsletter is also emailed to all but the few who don't "do" computers (they still get a paper copy). BUT, we are NOT "entitled" to any of it. We pay to shoot, we're entitled to work and shoot, and really encouraged to tear down the stages and pack away the steel afterward. Beyond that it's all gravy.

[Cascade Charlie, SASS # 48668L]

Personally, I find it hard to believe that with today's scoring programs available, that scores shouldn't be posted by the time the steel is put away.

 

It's been that way at all the clubs we've participated in from Washington State to Illinois since 2003 and everybody is offered a paper copy if they want one before they leave the range.

 

I can see a litle tardiness getting them posted to the club's website if nobody at the club actually has admministration priveledges to the site.

[Harvey Mushman]

Let's see...I pay my dues...my match fees...and in return I have the following expectations:

 

Safe Stages

Scores

 

Gee, is that asking too much???

 

Not everyone can volenteer. They barly have enough time to shoot. But I guess only volenteers have a right to speak up.

 

Oy!

 

 

 

Yep, That is the minimum and absolutely, fully acceptable. IMHO that also earns one the right to be heard with courteous face-to-face expressions of how something may have fallen short, or be might be done better, constructively.

 

Short of that, it is always better received if the critic is willing to help, at any level, however small, as opposed to constant negativity without any contribution offered.

 

This is largely a volunteer endeavor at the local level which is the foundation of the sport, and if we all contribute as we can (however small, when we can), it will continue to grow and prosper, feeding the larger regional,state,national, and international events.

 

It seems to me that a reasonable group of us at the local level must each continue to recognize that the sport will live, grow, and prosper ONLY if a significant number of us look for opportunities to contribute beyond the minimum, as we are able.

 

We will always rely on the dedicated few to keep the nucleus going, but if we all just do the minimum, the sport will be done.

 

Cheers,

Harvey

[Seldom Seen #16162]

This thread belongs on the Saloon for a good ole fashion bar fight with piano music.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

As a organizer for a state shoot you will never hear me say "volunteer or shut up". The shooters are the customers and pay a lot of money to be there. While I may not agree or act on the comment or suggestion I at least listen. I try to think of it as any other business that is serviced based.

[Blastmaster]

BK,

 

Everyone has the right to their opinion, but, it is how/when/where it is said that makes a difference. It is a slam to the folks that are presently volunteering when someone that pays a monthly entry fee of lets say $10, that does nothing (brass, count, set targets,scores, put the steel away) during the shoot, complain that the brass wasn't picked up fast enough or the scores were not posted soon enough and so on.

 

Cutting to the chase, from my observation, it usually takes two people approximately an hour to key punch in two posses worth of scores and get them printed out after getting home and firing up the SASS Scoring program. An hour, after you have put in a day going and coming back from a shoot. Those people also paid the $10 shooters fee, just like everyone else. Those key punchers could also say to heck with it and quite. If everyone put in an hour of labor of some sort before, during or after the match to make the match run, then your opinion would have more meaning.

 

To much to ask? Yes, in most cases it is.

 

 

JMNOHO,

 

Blastmaster

 

ps. BK, I honestly really don't care what all you have sponsored or ran in your past life, just like you shouldn't care what all I have done for the shooting sport in the past. What matters is what you and I have done together at the matches we have attended at the same time. Enjoyed shooting with you at TMS.

[Blastmaster]

As a organizer for a state shoot you will never hear me say "volunteer or shut up". The shooters are the customers and pay a lot of money to be there. While I may not agree or act on the comment or suggestion I at least listen. I try to think of it as any other business that is serviced based.

 

At a state or above shoot, the higher fees that are collect usually make a few hundred to a few thousand dollars profit (above and beyond expenses) to the hosting club. This profit goes for improvements. The various club volunteers are exchanging their labor for money that goes to the club. Different than a break even entry fee that is usually the case at monthly matches. When the club makes a profit, then the expectations of the shooter can be higher and thus they have more right to praise or criticize.

 

just another view and opinion, worth nothing.

 

Blastmaster

[Stump Water]

This entire sport is run and maintained by volunteers and sponsors, from your local monthly match to Winter Range.

 

It has been my experience that all that is asked for in return is a “Thank You.” or “The stages were fun today.” or, if you’re a sponsor, mention in the match book and/or at the safety/awards meetings.

 

It has also been my experience that match organizers will listen to any and all concerns. In fact, they want to hear them. Being a sponsor or a volunteer doesn’t, or shouldn’t, lend any more weight to your concern. (Sponsors and vendors can have different concerns but that’s not what I’m talking about here and y’all know that).

 

However, if you are one of those people that habitually bitch, whine, complain and generally have a stick up your backside 24/7 and never lift a finger to help then, yes, you need to shut up… and go away.

[Blackwater 53393]

Bro King,

all I can say is I'd love to jaw with you bout nearly anything at the local Mexican eatery.

We would trully have a great time.

..........Widder

 

Yes sir,

Mr. Widder, you'd really enjoy shootin' and yakkin' with B.K. He's a great pard and I consider him a good friend. He's another one who will honestly tell you what he thinks and listen fairly to what you have to say. You may not always agree, but if you do the same he'll always share respect and cordial conversation.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

At a state or above shoot, the higher fees that are collect usually make a few hundred to a few thousand dollars profit (above and beyond expenses) to the hosting club. This profit goes for improvements. The various club volunteers are exchanging their labor for money that goes to the club. Different than a break even entry fee that is usually the case at monthly matches. When the club makes a profit, then the expectations of the shooter can be higher and thus they have more right to praise or criticize.

 

just another view and opinion, worth nothing.

 

Blastmaster

 

I don't view it as any different. For my wife and I to go to a monthy 2-3 hours away we will have $70-$90 in it by the time we put gas in the truck and what not. When you put on a match you ARE in the entertainment business. If you can't do it all the way (i.e. post score in a semi timely fashion so that your customers can see them) then don't do it at all. Someone else will step up and the show will go on.

[BJT]

Tellin someone to shut up is never appropriate.

 

Tellin someone the person who might be best motivated to solve a problem is the one who is most impacted by the problem, seems appropriate.

 

Scoring is not that hard and it has a huge impact on the success of a match. Scoring is something that can be done sitting in a comfortable chair in an air conditioned house.

 

If you can't do it, you can't do it. If you can, you could solve your own problem, improve the club, help your mates and make the sport a little better place to play.

 

Also, I have noticed a tendency in the human spirit to care more about a problem when an outsider offers to solve it than when an outsider complains out the problem

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I'd much rather go shoot and have fun and no scores than not shoot at all...

[Blastmaster]

Tellin someone to shut up is never appropriate.

 

I take the 'shut up' as being I don't want to hear all the problems w/o solutions and not the rude "shut up" statement.

Tellin someone the person who might be best motivated to solve a problem is the one who is most impacted by the problem, seems appropriate.

 

Scoring is not that hard and it has a huge impact on the success of a match. Scoring is something that can be done sitting in a comfortable chair in an air conditioned house.

 

Then, are you volunteering for your club(s) to key punch in all the scores and get them out within a few short hours? You have all the components to do the job. You say it isn't that hard.

 

If you can't do it, you can't do it. If you can, you could solve your own problem, improve the club, help your mates and make the sport a little better place to play.

 

Also, I have noticed a tendency in the human spirit to care more about a problem when an outsider offers to solve it than when an outsider complains out the problem

 

I like hearing solutions. Especially when the person volunteers to handle the problem that his solution is pointed at.

Cheers,

BJT

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Most folks who love this sport do what they can to volunteer. That's what I have seen at the limited venues I've enjoyed. That's all I can say I reckon...Matthew Duncan, Deuce, Phantom, Possum Skinner are on the right track with their posts IMHO.

 

GG

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Also remember, there are a lot of things required beyond counting misses or picking up some brass during the match. Someone had to spend their afternoon yesterday setting and painting steel and take a count sometimes of the pards who run for the car after shooting their last stage. Remember the rest of the shooters counted for you and even beyond that, your hands would certainly be helpful in taking the targets down after the shooting.

 

After every match a few of us get together and get the results, those who leave early (very quickly) just might have to wait a few days. Since those match volunteers are spending the big bucks on boats and race cars instead of new computers, the hand-me-down lap tops do sometimes just quit and thus requires someone to do the tallying with pencil in hand as a homework project.

 

Sometimes I feel a little guilty about their plight but, what the heck, I volunteered for something one time and I do spend my hard earned money to shoot while these worker guys shoot for free, right? Oh, one last thought, Thanks Pix Axe Pete, others have come and gone but you have always been out there far beyond any one mans limits.

 

 

OH, the clubs I shoot at are non profit. If they make money it goes back into club expenses or upgrades. Many shooting venues are in our home clubs, not just cowboy. One club charges ten and the other fifteen, I am entertained for several hours and consider it a bargain compared to the movie theaters.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

The four sweetest words the leader of ANY volunteer organization can hear (and I have been in a few, shooting related and otherwise) are "How can I help?" Of course that is NOT a carte blanche invitation to be worked to death (though some volunteers don't know when to say "whoa" and take on so much they burn out), but is a proffer to reasonably assist.

 

It can be swinging a hammer or digging post holes, or spending a few hours moving music from CDs to an Ipod so background music can be played all day in the pavillion at the state shoot. It might be as simple as running to the Kinko's and making copies........

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi BK,

 

Let me list a few of the rude comments I've received over the years.

 

AM: Will there be a 49er category this year (second year it was legal)? A: When you put on a match you can choose the categories.

 

AM: Who was totally out of shape due to knee problems then knee surgery and had only shot two matches by October. Sat down for a few minutes on the third day of an annual match. A: You could at least pick brass. AM got up and started picking brass.

 

AM: At a meeting to plan an annual match made a suggestion about the Plainsman Event. A: Why are you saying anything, you don't even shoot it. AM shot it.

 

Another thing I've noticed: If there are no available jobs and you sit down, some folks will condescendingly ask you to do a job when it is available. Others, will just say, "Hey Allie, can you count or time or..." No 'tude to it.

 

Guess the moral of the story is some folks are nice and others are jerks. Just like some who aren't working at the moment have a reason and others make a practice of it.

 

Do what you can and ignore the not-so-nice comments. Wish I could do as I say.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Shooting Bull]

It is a slam to the folks that are presently volunteering when someone that pays a monthly entry fee of lets say $10, that does nothing (brass, count, set targets,scores, put the steel away) during the shoot, complain that the brass wasn't picked up fast enough or the scores were not posted soon enough and so on.

 

 

 

This most closely reflect how I feel. Everyone is welcome to have and voice an opinion but, to be perfectly honest, I'll probably listen to yours a bit more if you've actually helped out. Even if it's filling one of the posse duties, that's all I ask. It's when I hear from someone who's done absolutely NOTHING to help out before, during or after the match that I don't feel a great deal of urgency to listen to thier opinion.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

With regard to POSSE chores, to thy own self be true. If you know you generally do your share at least, and at some point ya find yerself flagging, ask for a replacement for your job (or maybe switch out with the table officer or scorekeeper), and SIT DOW a little bit. NOTHIN ruins a day of shooting like making an error that might could get somebody hurt. If you KNOW you need a short break, PLEASE take one. If ya sit on yer behind most of the time, well, that's a different story..... To thy own self be true....

 

I've asked for a replacement when running the timer, handed it off and just SAT DOWN while maybe 5 or 6 shooters were run through. Anybody don't like it, too bad. I knew I needed a break and took one.

[BJT]

From Blastmaster:

 

"Then, are you volunteering for your club(s) to key punch in all the scores and get them out within a few short hours? You have all the components to do the job. You say it isn't that hard."

 

 

I have scored many shoots for several clubs and annuals. Among set ups, tear downs, administration, and work parties, it is by far the easiest work I have done.

 

It is easiest with a computer and webspace. Webspace is free. Computers are ubiquitous.

 

Perhaps the Queen in Hamlet said it best, methinks.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

 

Perhaps the Queen in Hamlet said it best, methinks.

 

Cheers,

BJT

I know which you mean, but this is my favorite:

 

O Hamlet, speak no more:

Thou turn'st my very eyes into my soul,

And there I see such black and grained spots

As will not leave their tinct

...O speak to me no more;

these words like daggars enter my ears;

No more, sweet Hamlet!

[BJT]

I know which you mean, but this is my favorite:

 

O Hamlet, speak no more:

Thou turn'st my very eyes into my soul,

And there I see such black and grained spots

As will not leave their tinct

...O speak to me no more;

these words like daggars enter my ears;

No more, sweet Hamlet!

 

 

And we know how that turned out! No thanks

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

And we know how that turned out! No thanks

Just sayin'....

[Cascade Charlie, SASS # 48668L]

Okay...which one of you is Val Kilmer and which one is Michael Behan from the movie? 'cause y'all are speakin Latin!!

 

Not "Just sayin'"

 

Just Kiddin'

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Fellow Shakepeare-ians.....cool

 

GG

[Anvil Al #59168]

"VISITORS"

 

Folks. Lets not forget about those folks. And another, GOOD, reason to post scores.

 

Scores are NOT just for those people that showed up that day.

When I am looking at shooting in another area.

What do you think I do?????

 

Thats right.

One of the first things I do is, go to there web site and look at scores.

 

That tells me alot about the clubs in the area that I may want to visit.

It tells me who shoots there. And could be a see someone shooting there that I would like to go shoot with.

It tells me about how many folks shoot there, and how many I can expect to see.

It tells me about what I can expect from the stages, just by looking at the times. Can tell if there stages

are somewhat fast and maybe to my liking. Or are they real slow and maybe not to my liking.

You can get a lot of info from the scores from clubs you are looking a visiting.

 

You don't post scores??? I don't get any info, and go to another club in the area. It's that simple.

 

Posting scores are NOT just about those that showed up that day. It's for future customers also.

 

Just something to think about.

[The Shoer 27979]

Hi BK,

 

Let me list a few of the rude comments I've received over the years.

 

AM: Will there be a 49er category this year (second year it was legal)? A: When you put on a match you can choose the categories.

 

AM: Who was totally out of shape due to knee problems then knee surgery and had only shot two matches by October. Sat down for a few minutes on the third day of an annual match. A: You could at least pick brass. AM got up and started picking brass.

 

AM: At a meeting to plan an annual match made a suggestion about the Plainsman Event. A: Why are you saying anything, you don't even shoot it. AM shot it.

 

Another thing I've noticed: If there are no available jobs and you sit down, some folks will condescendingly ask you to do a job when it is available. Others, will just say, "Hey Allie, can you count or time or..." No 'tude to it.

 

Guess the moral of the story is some folks are nice and others are jerks. Just like some who aren't working at the moment have a reason and others make a practice of it.

 

Do what you can and ignore the not-so-nice comments. Wish I could do as I say.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Miss Allie you are going to love possum hollow then. No attitudes and if one comes up it gets squared away real quick. More often then not you will have to fight to do possie choirs.