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Target Acquisition


Guest Texas Jack Black

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Looking for input on target Acquisition with rifle sights. What do you think is faster ,open sights or a tang sight?and Why/

 

 

T J B

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Howdy, Pard,

You'll get plenty of input on this, but for my money the fastest on target is a post or bead front sight and a receiver-mounted peep (aka "ghost ring"). Fastest on target I've ever shot was a "Tanker" M-1 Garand with an 18-inch barrel and the issue combat rear sight. The reason is that your eye will automatically center the front sight without having to focus on both the way you do with open sights! (In point of fact, nobody can focus on both front and rear sights at the same time. What you actually do is find the target, then the front sight, then the rear and back out to the front and the target. This is done so quickly that your brain converts the image to a single one...until you hit about 40 or so, and then your eye muscles lose their ability to refocus quickly! :lol: )

 

A peep tang sight is the next best so long as you aren't shooting a very high recoil cartridge where you could get the sight in your eye! That is why African hunters usually go with the open sights for backing up their clients at close range.

 

Having said all that, I generally shoot open sight in CAS matches. My distance vision is still good and my shooting glasses are ground to give sharp focus on the front sight, with the rear close to being in focus. The targets generally are a bit fuzzy, but not bad.

 

One "trick" which is perfectly legal, is to use a full-buckhorn rear sight on the barrel. While not quite as good as a tang, it gives a similar effect to a peep, causing your eye to center the front sight in the opening.

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

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I can't disagree too much with the receiver mounted ghost ring sight being the fastest. Unfortunately it is not legal for SASS. I went for the second best which is (in my opinion) a full buckhorn back sight with a large bead front sight.

 

There are those who say that a buckhorn blocks their field of view and a flat back sight is better. If you shoot with both eyes open, I think that you will find a buckhorn better. If you close one eye, the peep sight or the flat back sight may be to your choosing.

 

I noticed that Deuce has posted about a flat top rear sight. It's hard to argue with him about being fast, especially for me! But, I have found that using a flat top rear sight, I have a tendency to shoot high - a full buckhorn solves that problem.

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Plus one to Deuce. I build a lot of rifles. I personally shoot a flat rear sight and large bead front sight. Very fast. I have had many customers request a full buckhorn rear with a taller bead front, but only one in ten have ever stayed with the full buckhorn.

A receiver mount "ghost ring" isn't legal, I don't care for a tang mount ring or aperture and haven't run into anyone who was "fast" with either. With both eyes open, you have a much better view of the field of "play" with a flat rear sight.

 

Coffinmaker

 

PS: Let's not forget, much of the time a person's position is based on what he/she learned with. Not necessarily on actual practicality. By all means, shoot what you are comfortable with.

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100 -200 Yd Shooting, especially Speed Matches

* A tang mounted peep sight and a 0.093 bead foresight.

 

Regular CAS:

* Semi buckhorn rear and the Grabber for the foresight. Put the Grabber on the target and keep racking the lever

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fastest is a large brass bead combined with a flatop rear, why? because I have yet to see someone prove that a tang sight is faster.

 

Not to disagree, but to understand, why is a large brass bead better than a standard size brass bead. I agree on a flat rear sight. I use a std Marbles brass bead front sight on my 73s. On the occasional longer range bonus rifle target, I find it easier to use than a larger bead. Have tried both std and much larger brass bead and had problems with long range targets like a clay as the bead looked larger than the target as seen from the stock.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

I will be putting sights on a 66 I acquired and wil need a new front sight as well . I see that Pioneer has a front barrel band sight with a beefy brass bead and a rear sight like the one Duece mentioned any input on these products? Also the aluminum carriers are there problems with them?

 

T J B

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A tang sight with a ghost ring is effective to train you to reliably mount the gun the same each time. it is an "automatic" sight, as the eye naturally centers the bead. Used in tandem with a .130 bead, ya got a pretty foolproof CAS main match sight because, after it trains you, you can, and I have, forget to flip the rear sight up, and yer gonna reliably mount the gun properly, paste the bead on the target and let er rip. NEVER had a miss because of a missing rear sight once that training was reduced to muscle memory. The other types of sights, where yer rear sight is further from the eye do not auto-center, and ya fairly often have a little bit of time pspent aligning front and rear. Why "deal with" two sights when ya can use the "auto alignment and inherent training afforded by a ghost ring very close to the eye to get it down to using ONE sight? AAMOF, the training to reliably mount the gun properly is so effective, you can shoot a rifle with NO sights at CAS distances after a while. Done that too, when the front sight went walkabout from the slot. I simply reached out and swiped it out of the way, put the entire target on top of the barrel top, and let er rip.

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TJB,

 

You ask about Pioneer's front barrel band and rear sights, so it would appear your trying to put sights on a Carbine?? If that is the case, I wind up installing the Pioneer front band and bead on all the Carbines I work on. Usually I just make the factory sight flat and cut the "slot" in the factory sight to a deep "V" with a triangle file. I then have the shooter adjust their CAS load to impact right behind the bead at 15 yards. If it's a small(ish) target, center the "V" bead, cover the target with the bead and ........... POOF.

 

Coffinmaker

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I shoot a flat rear sight and normal size front bead. I've been shooting this for 7 years or so. Tha flat rear allows a target to come clearly into view faster. I wouldn't trade it for a barrel of monkeys.

 

 

RRR

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When yall git old, eyes dim and slow down, you will get that flat rear sight out of your mind.

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Guest diablo slim shootist

I have shot both type of sights

my marlin has a ghost ring

and my 73 has a flat rear

i find i like the ghost ring better

i seem to miss less.But thats just me

im a lousy rifle shot anyway :blink:

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Thanks for the input It is hard to dispute the merits of the flat rear sight when Duece and RRR are using them .I will order the barrel band large bead front sight along with the flat rear sight I have a Marbles sight I used several years ago when I had Cataracts . If I find that the flat sight is not for me I can always install the Marbles Tang.I have not shot for two years I have had two back operations a heart attack and had Cataracts removed .The Doc gave we a clean bill of health and said go shoot and enjoy,

I am looking forward to getting back into the game. :blink: :blink:

 

 

T J B

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Not to disagree, but to understand, why is a large brass bead better than a standard size brass bead. I agree on a flat rear sight. I use a std Marbles brass bead front sight on my 73s. On the occasional longer range bonus rifle target, I find it easier to use than a larger bead. Have tried both std and much larger brass bead and had problems with long range targets like a clay as the bead looked larger than the target as seen from the stock.

 

What is your eye gonna pick up faster, a large object or a small object? A good frind of mine who is a very good shooter has about the best vision of anyone I know and even he benefits from the quicker sight acquisition. And if you know where your rifle is shooting small targets won't be an issue. Not to mention the frequency of shooting those smaller targets. I think it's better to have your guns set up the type of shooting you do 95% of the time versus 5% of the time.

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What is your eye gonna pick up faster, a large object or a small object? A good frind of mine who is a very good shooter has about the best vision of anyone I know and even he benefits from the quicker sight acquisition. And if you know where your rifle is shooting small targets won't be an issue. Not to mention the frequency of shooting those smaller targets. I think it's better to have your guns set up the type of shooting you do 95% of the time versus 5% of the time.

 

 

Eggzactimundo! The eye acquires a big bead faster (same is true of a peep sight for most of us, but let's just talk about the bead size), and if yer gun is set up so it hits where ya aim it, even a clay bird at 25 yards is not an issue. Sure it is buried behind the sight, just barely, but it's buried. That's OK, because yer bullet is gonna go to the middle of that bead's coverage..... On the rare time ya get a 20 or 25 yard small target, slide the bead over it like yer covering a dime with a penny and yank the pop switch.

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What is your eye gonna pick up faster, a large object or a small object? A good frind of mine who is a very good shooter has about the best vision of anyone I know and even he benefits from the quicker sight acquisition. And if you know where your rifle is shooting small targets won't be an issue. Not to mention the frequency of shooting those smaller targets. I think it's better to have your guns set up the type of shooting you do 95% of the time versus 5% of the time.

 

Thanks

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What about these aluminum carriers? any problems with them?

 

T J B

 

 

I have had problems with wear with these. Shooting Brass again for last 4 years no problems, some don't have a problem with Alm but I did.

 

 

RRR

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When yall git old, eyes dim and slow down, you will get that flat rear sight out of your mind.

 

I don't think focus is the reason for the flat top sights. I won't attempt to speak for anyone else, but the benefit of a flat top sight is the ability to see the moment your front sight crosses the side edge of the target plate.

On a single tapping sweep - seeing the front sight crossing the edge may allow you to fire sooner

You may be able to fire without stopping your muzzle swing (this action speeds up your times).

And if you can fire without stopping your swing, now you can fire as soon as you see the sight hit the plate - in effect giving you a larger plate and a longer time span to shoot at it. (if you are swinging L-R on a 16" plate with a flat rear sight, and you fire at the left edge as you swing onto the target - you have the entire 16" of plate left to right to hit. If your view is partially obscured as you swing onto the target {by a peep or the ears of a buckhorn}, you are {assuming same speed of swing} giving yourself a smaller target to engage and a shorter time to do so.)

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I don't think focus is the reason for the flat top sights. I won't attempt to speak for anyone else, but the benefit of a flat top sight is the ability to see the moment your front sight crosses the side edge of the target plate.

On a single tapping sweep - seeing the front sight crossing the edge may allow you to fire sooner

You may be able to fire without stopping your muzzle swing (this action speeds up your times).

And if you can fire without stopping your swing, now you can fire as soon as you see the sight hit the plate - in effect giving you a larger plate and a longer time span to shoot at it. (if you are swinging L-R on a 16" plate with a flat rear sight, and you fire at the left edge as you swing onto the target - you have the entire 16" of plate left to right to hit. If your view is partially obscured as you swing onto the target {by a peep or the ears of a buckhorn}, you are {assuming same speed of swing} giving yourself a smaller target to engage and a shorter time to do so.)

_________________

I hear ya. I'm still pausing, not into the full swing/shoot yet. But sure do agree with the principal. You still have to have that front blade somewhere near the center of the rear: if you can't see the notch.......

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Another 'ditto' for Deuce, RRR, Randy and a host of others:

 

flat top 'V' rear and large bead front.

 

p.s. - and I ain't got the best eye sight anymore either.

 

 

..........Widder

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Flat top & big bead for me too. I have shot a lot of M1's & AR's and there is no way "I" can get on target as fast with that setup. As far as small targets go (and I'm not an expert) but if you shoot with both eyes open it seems like I see both...the bead and the target. I have shot playing cards in matches with a .170 bead and never thought twice about it.

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I've found that if the targets are fairly big and close you don't need any rear sight at all. Just bring the rifle up, put the front sight on the target and shoot.

 

I have an old Lyman tang sight that just gives a thin ghost image for the rear sight. Unless the targets are far enough away that they need to be aimed at I just flip the rear sight down. Or just ignore the rear sight.

 

Try this sometime. Set a target at about 15 yards. Put your rifle on a bench and sight at the target. After lining the sights up on the center of the target move your head without moving the rifle so the front sight moves from one side of the rear sight to the other. The position of the front sight on the target only moves a couple of inches.

 

Sage Creek Gus

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