Good Old Doubles

[Waimea]

Howdy Pards,

 

I have been thinking lately about buying a double. I've seen that it's almost universal on the wire that Stoegers are a great gun. So it would be easy to plop my money down on that brand and leave it at that.

 

But I'm wondering if there's any good used other model doubles out there that would also fit the bill. I get on gunbroker sometimes and check the doubles there and think one or two would be really cool as cowboy guns.

 

It doesn't matter if they are hammered or unhammered.

 

I know that damascus barrels can't hold up to the pressures of modern powder.

 

What should I look for otherwise?

 

Waimea (who wants to learn the ways of the double)

 

[Roughneck Rod]

my vote would be for an SKB. they are alot more money and alot more gun than a Stoeger, to me they are worth every penny.

[Maddog Maxwell SASS#31604]

Crescent made a lot of SxS shotguns under a lot of different names. Look up a list of trade names for them and check the gun shows. They are good, sturdy shotguns.

[Waimea]

Of course one of the rules of SASS is that the double can't have an auto spring extractor so that is always a question in my mind when I look at doubles on GB.

 

Question: Is it difficult to disable the auto extractor?

 

Waimea

 

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

You do not want to disable the extractor(s) or you will be digging empties out with yer knife.

 

Auto ejectors are easy to disable and a cheap job for any gunsmith.

 

Since you say a hammer double is OK, check out the formerly TTN now Cimarron. A real best buy inmy opinion.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

If you can find one, the Rossi hammered double is a good choice. The Overland (28") or the Coach model (20") can usually be found in the $250 - $400 range.

 

I picked up a hammerless Boito last year for $180. It's the precursor to the Stoeger (made by the same company) but I think it's a better gun. Doesn't have the closure creep problem, and shucks everything from STS to the cheapo ribbed hulls with ease. Some of them will have Boito on them, most will have FIE - the old importer.

 

The LeFever shotguns were good serviceable arms. If I recall, they eventually got bought up by Savage, and started calling them the Nitro Proofed line. Speaking of Savage, the Fox shotguns are a good choice too. My local shop has one right now, and it's a beauty and a bargain at around $400. Too bad my Jeep needed new tires, otherwise that Fox would be home with me.

 

Regarding the ejector / extractor, they all operate on the same basic principle - when the extractors start in motion, there's usually a spring that gives it a little kick. Remove the spring, and problem solved with no major surgery.

[Waimea]

You do not want to disable the extractor(s) or you will be digging empties out with yer knife.

 

Auto ejectors are easy to disable and a cheap job for any gunsmith.

 

Since you say a hammer double is OK, check out the formerly TTN now Cimarron. A real best buy inmy opinion.

 

Yup, ejector is is what I meant not extractor. I don't want to be trying to dig shells out of the gun.

 

W

 

[Waimea]

Regarding the ejector / extractor, they all operate on the same basic principle - when the extractors start in motion, there's usually a spring that gives it a little kick. Remove the spring, and problem solved with no major surgery.

 

Thanks, Captain. That's what I wanted to hear.

 

Waimea

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The LeFever shotguns were good serviceable arms. If I recall, they eventually got bought up by Savage, and started calling them the Nitro Proofed line.

 

Actually, LeFever was bought by Ithaca and just the name (but not the gun design) was used in low end of Ithaca doubles in the 20's. Line was called the Nitro Special. This evolved into the New Ithaca Double (NID), also a good solid gun, which was made until the late 40's.

 

Here's a blurb on all the common double guns you are likely to consider to answer your question:

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_doubles.htm

 

Good luck, GJ

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Thank you for the correction Joe. I knew they'd been bought up by someone larger. Just got my conglomerates confused.

 

What's your view on the Ithaca Flues model? My favorite shop has one of those on sale too, and it's a dandy looking gun as well.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

Stevens 311 and some of the "store brand twins" come to mind as a pretty fair old double. They are generally available and won't break the bank.

 

Blackfoot

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Thank you for the correction Joe. I knew they'd been bought up by someone larger. Just got my conglomerates confused.

 

What's your view on the Ithaca Flues model? My favorite shop has one of those on sale too, and it's a dandy looking gun as well.

 

The reputation of the Flues guns is excellent. I've never had one, as I didn't want to cut up one that was that collectable. Ithaca made some very nice doubles, and almost any good shotgun smith knows how to work on them.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Solo_Sam]

Stevens 311 and some of the "store brand twins" come to mind as a pretty fair old double. They are generally available and won't break the bank.

 

+1. I got a used 20-gauge 311 for $200, and I am very pleased with it.

 

-Solo Sam

[Uncle Joe]

I was fortunate to have a Parker Bros. handed down to me from my family, it is a 1896 hammer less with Damascus barrels, 12 gage, the barrels are 28 inch and I shoot black powder in it, I have shot light trap loads in it in the past, I do not recommend it, but to each his own, I also picked up a 1894 hammer parker Bros. that also has Damascus barrels, never did shoot light smokless in it, nothing but black powder.

 

go to gun shows, look for what I call old Hardware store doubles, many were made by Ithaca with the stores name on it..another good old shotgun is a Riverside, I have one of them in 16 gage that I hunt with, I opf course have hunted with both Parkers, the hammer less gun looks rough as heck, I remember it rolling around on the wagon and in the back of the truck when I was a kid in the 40s and 50s on the farm..old ironsides is painted on the stock, something I did as a youth, I leave it there as a reminder days gone by.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

If you want a hammered double the TTN is the way to go IMHO. SKB or Browning BSS seem to be the best single trigger hammerless for this sport. I just got a Charley Daly 500 2 trigger hammerless that seems like a real good gun, made by the same folks as the SKB and BSS.

 

I've been shooting a Stoegar for a while with no trouble but many pards say if you run them hard they won't hold up.

 

Randy

[GunClick Rick]

Huskvarna,ivory front site,hammered,horn shoulder pad good steal barrels,i never gonna part with mine.See Dusty Morningwood,he gets good shotguns.

[Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843]

+1 on the TTN. It is strong, and heavy (little recoil) and smooth right out of the box. It also gives you the opportunity to shoot Classic Cowboy if you ever want to. It is easy to cock both hammers at once ( after some "minor surgery" on the hammer spurs), and with practice, you can shoot this baby almost as fast as a hammerless SxS, and with more "style points". My 2 cents.

 

Hoss

[G. P. Cobb]

Howdy Pards,

 

I have been thinking lately about buying a double. I've seen that it's almost universal on the wire that Stoegers are a great gun. So it would be easy to plop my money down on that brand and leave it at that.

 

But I'm wondering if there's any good used other model doubles out there that would also fit the bill. I get on gunbroker sometimes and check the doubles there and think one or two would be really cool as cowboy guns.

 

It doesn't matter if they are hammered or unhammered.

 

I know that damascus barrels can't hold up to the pressures of modern powder.

 

What should I look for otherwise?

 

Waimea (who wants to learn the ways of the double)

 

__________________

Best Buy (quality), Most Affordable, Most popular? The question needs fragmented to answer correctly.

My choices, TTN - Stoger, in that order.

Edit for possibles, we have: Bakial, Bounty Hunter, and my favorites: Liberty and Stevens.

 

Singles: One 97, one Model 12 and one cute cute Mossy.

[Doc Fill 'Em 67797]

Look for a Savage Fox Model B. Built like a tank. Came in single and double trigger. Should be able to find a nice one for $400-500. Don't give any more than that. Baikals are good, Stevens 311 are too.

 

For hammered guns, look for Rossi, Baikal, CZ makes a real nice hammered coach gun for around $750. I hear lots of good things about the TTN. Norinco 99 hammered gun. Cheap price, looks pretty rough. CAI has a Chinese hammered gun but it looks rough, too.

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

If you want a hammered double the TTN is the way to go IMHO. SKB or Browning BSS seem to be the best single trigger hammerless for this sport. I just got a Charley Daly 500 2 trigger hammerless that seems like a real good gun, made by the same folks as the SKB and BSS. - Randy

 

I totally agree with Randy.The Daly 500, early SKB's and the BSS were all made by Miroku. Miroku currently makes Browning BT-99's and their pumps. Good stuff.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Most all my hammerless guns are L.C. Smith, with a couple of Crescents. My current hammered guns are Husqvarna. Look a lot like the TTN but better quality, IMHO.

[Pit Bull Tex]

The Rossi hammered I had ,I did not like because the hammers were to for apart.The TTN was nice but I was not to good at cocking it. I have two Baikal hammerless now and love them .

[ChuteTheMall]

Hammered TTN/Cimarron gets all the style points!

 

Anything hammerless looks almost as modern as a pumpgun.

[Red Hooker]

.........The LeFever shotguns were good serviceable arms. If I recall, they eventually got bought up by Savage, ....

That was A.H. Fox.

[Red Hooker]

..another good old shotgun is a Riverside, I have one of them in 16 gage that I hunt with........

A "store brand" Stevens.

[Marshal J. D. Fender SASS# 78000]

I just bought a Cimmarron Antiqued Coach Gun 1878, I like it! It's simple and has that "old" feel with double hammers without black powder! It wasn't cheap tho! I don't know how it is on speed, but right now I'm a slow shooter (its what the Air Force teaches me)

[Pit Bull Tex]

The hammered guns are cool and love the looks of them they are slow with me using them but they are not slow at all.The fastest I have seen in person, someone shoot a shotgun was a hammered S X S and it sounds like a semi auto on two knock downs and swing across and two knock downs.I love to watch him shoot.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

If you run across a Hunter , they are a L.C. Smith . Not hard to work on and tough as nails .

 

JMHO

 

CB

[Doc Windshadow]

Period guns with rough finishes on the metal and the wood can still be found for good prices at gun shows and pawn shops and smaller FFLs

if the metal finish problems are just cosmetic they can be good deals esp if they are in less popular gauges like 10 or 16

 

A friend took a shine to the Trojan grade (plainest) Parker 16Ga That I still use for upland game and found an example with no finish on the wood and quite a few dents and dings as well as a very slight rounded dent in the rt tube it cost him just $100 at a Maine gun show 2 years ago his smith raised the dent and checked it out and gave it a full stripdown and cleaning for $50 he then refinshed the stock (dent raising with steam and a rubbed truoil finish the metal has mostly aged to brown and he had to replace the butt plate but it is a fine shooter and he is thinking of giving the metal a reblue

 

all sorts of guns from say 1900 to 1940 can be found this way from lots of makers

 

this approach may be worth considering but I doubt they can be made Race Ready as easily as the new made coach guns but I will never be fast enough to make that a reason to stop using my collection of old 16ga guns in SASS

 

Cheers

Windy

[Waimea]

Pards

 

Lots of good replies and info here. Much to think about.

 

I wanted to stay with 12 gauge because that's what my main gun is. A backup gun to me is no good if I have to carry around different gauge ammo to feed it. I am also going to start reloading my own SG shells and again don't want to deal with two different gauges at this time.

 

My perfect backup double would be cheap, in the $200 or less range. Maybe it's unrealistic but spending $750 on a BU gun isn't my price point at this time. It doesn't have to be pretty or race ready because when I'm using it I'm not racing but I am still playing the game and not imposing on a pard to borrow a gun while mine is in the shop longer than expected. Not that there aren't plenty of pards wanting to loan me their guns either that ain't the point. Just tryin' to be a responsible cowboy.

 

That there's my agenda.

 

Thanks for your answers. They've helped me narrow my choices down considerably.

 

Waimea

 

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

Pards

 

Lots of good replies and info here. Much to think about.

 

I wanted to stay with 12 gauge because that's what my main gun is. A backup gun to me is no good if I have to carry around different gauge ammo to feed it. I am also going to start reloading my own SG shells and again don't want to deal with two different gauges at this time.

 

My perfect backup double would be cheap, in the $200 or less range. Maybe it's unrealistic but spending $750 on a BU gun isn't my price point at this time. It doesn't have to be pretty or race ready because when I'm using it I am still playing the game but not imposing on a pard to borrow a gun while mine is in the shop. Not that there aren't plenty of pards wanting to loan me their guns.

 

That there's my agenda.

 

Thanks for your answers. They've helped me narrow my choices down considerably.

 

Waimea

 

 

 

If you want cheap get a single shot 12 ga, H&R's are real cheap.Cypress Sam sometimes shoots one ,he's pretty fast with it as well.

 

At least if your gun went down you'd be able to finish & not have to borrow.

 

 

Regards AO

[Barterin Bill]

I've got a stevens 5100 (same gun as a 311) in 20ga 28" and baikal 12ga 20" slicked for cowboy. I like em both.

[Marshal J. D. Fender SASS# 78000]

My coach gun was 550 plus shells, so 610 total (taxes, bleh)

[Waimea]

If you want cheap get a single shot 12 ga, H&R's are real cheap.Cypress Sam sometimes shoots one ,he's pretty fast with it as well.

 

At least if your gun went down you'd be able to finish & not have to borrow.

 

 

Regards AO

 

AO

 

Not a bad idea. You can have spring ejectors with a single too so I could shoot cheap factory ammo without a problem.

 

You might be on to something here.

 

W

 

[Chicken Coop SASS 5791 L]

Howdy Pard,

 

Whoops, I see I did not address your original post question about a used shotgun. When I first started CAS in 1997 I purchased a used Stevens 311 shotgun with 26" barrels for $210.00, and cut the barrels down to 20". It was a great shooter, but diffucult to open and reload. I kept it as a back-up shotgun for 10 years. My late FIL used it in a match in 2007 here in Pittsburgh. It never had a problem.

 

I've been shooting my 12 GA Stoeger Coach Gun since 1999. My wife has been shooting her 12 GA Stoeger Coach Gun since 2000. Thousands of rounds have gone thru them, with nary a Hic-cup. I shot my Stoeger for seven years using blackpowder only shotshells. Went back to smokeless two years ago.

 

However, I still shoot blackpowder occasionaly, and for my BP shotgun I use a 12 GA H&R Pardner single shot shotgun. It's much easier to clean <<GGG>>. And its really cool to watch the TO duck when the empty hull comes flying out of the chamber. Another Big <<GGG>>.

 

Chicken Coop