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Buck D. Law, SASS #62183

I was just wondering...

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Instead of the Big Boy, why didn't they make a replica of the 66 or 73? It would be great to have an American made gun with the same quality as the Uberti guns. I believe cowboys would get behind them if they did so.

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I've often wondered why Colt don't come back with the Python and Ruger make a 10-shot GP100 in .22

 

 

..........Widder

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Why not contact them and ask that question?

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Henry built a modern gun, attempting to use modern methods and save on production costs. I am quite sure they knew all about the existing designs, but they appear to have thought they had built a better mouse trap. I won't go into the wherefore and whatnot of the politics involved, but will give em an A for guts, trying to influence luddites with something new...... FWIW the .22 version seems to get good reviews from most users.

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The only thing I can figger out is their marketing director at the time was an idjit. If he is still there and getting paid it is tantamount to theft.

 

We could have had a USA made 66 instead of that big ugly boy thingie and it would have sold like hotcakes. They would be hard pressed to keep up with demand. Prices on Uberti rifles would not have shot up so high.

 

But NOOOOOOO they go with the thingie which CASers boycott in droves and only sells to deer hunters. Worst marketing decision of all time.

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The head of Henry was the idiot. He was the one that came on the SASS wire a year before it was approved to shoot in a SASS match and claimed several times it was perfectly legal. It is not a replica of any rifle. It is a disgrace to the Henry name.

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The problem wasnt with the gun itself but rather the market that they wanted to fall back on when it bombed in the dept store venue. They new their gun did not qualify for our sport based on our then current rules. Whether through attrition or bribes, to our discredit, we gave in to that level of leverage to allow them in. I like their 22s and had purchased them prior to that big stink but you can bet that I would never buy one of their products again. As to asking them for a gun actually created for our market, that was done early on. This was during the rise of the Ruger .32 Single Six (Baby Vaquero) and many folkes were begging for Henry to come out with a 32 based around the Golden Boy style. The options have remained open to them but they are not interested. I hope they are happy with their market share in SASS, they wanted it and now they got it!!!!

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Why, if the current design Big Boy did not go over well, not go back to the drawing board, and come up with something we would buy? Yes, the Big Boy is a complete POS. How about a '66 replica now. It doesn't even have to be a toggle link, make it look like a '66 but with a short throw bolt using a rack and pinion arrangement. Really make it slick. Priced competitively with Uberti, it would go over well if done right. Instead, they stick with the same thing that nobody likes.

 

They must sell a lot of the .22s because that is all that's keeping them in business.

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A few years back I wrote them and asked them why they didn't introduce a 32 H&R caliber rifle based on their 22 magnum lever gun. Almost dimensionally the same, and the 32 operates at a lower pressure than the 22. Would've been pretty painless to tool up for it.

 

They wrote back and said their marketing department guru didn't feel there would be any demand for it.

 

Obviously he's the idiot brother-in-law who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

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Howdy

 

I suspect if they tried to manufacture an actual replica of the '66 or '73, it would cost just as much as an Uberti, if not more. Part of the design of the Big Boy is it is inexpensive to produce. A toggle link action is not, they are expensive to produce. Just the nature of the beast. As for making it look like a toggle link on the outside, but different on the inside, part of the reason a toggle link looks like it does is because of what is inside. Function drives form. A '92 looks as it does because of what is inside. Henry tried to make the BB look like a '66 by plating it yellow. All resemblance ends there.

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Instead of the Big Boy, why didn't they make a replica of the 66 or 73? It would be great to have an American made gun with the same quality as the Uberti guns. I believe cowboys would get behind them if they did so.

 

First, to Lone Dog. You are mistaken if you think the CAS market is big enough to recoup and support a total ground up project like bringing a 66 ot 73 to market. If it were, some USA maker would have already done it.

The 66 and 73 are only of interest to the CAS market. The Big boy in 357m and 44mag and now 3-30 all on the same platform appeal to a much broader market. The cost factor that is seldom looked at is the number of parts times the number of machining step it takes to make it. The toggle link design has many more parts and many more machining steps to produce than the Big Boy and no where near the market share.

 

Buck, I too think it would be great if an American company could do this. But, I don't think the CAS folks or any other folks will get behind it. Mainly because of the cost. A prime example is the S&W Scholfield re-introduced awhile back or the Remington Rolling block brought back by Remington. In order for those folks to make money those guns sold for $1800 and up. If they were to re-introduce a 66 or 73 with it's much more complicate to machine action I would venture a price in the $2000 to $2500 range. That's just not feasible particularly if you are competing with the Italians, who have already recouped their overhead.

On a side note, I work in the industry and have for awhile. I know of two foreign makers (besides Chaparrel) that looked into making a repop toggle gun. One was more politically based but at this time both have backed off.

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Could be an even better paper, about forsight into an unsustainable market. NKJ I recant my previous post.

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I think the Henry Big Boy is a decent, stout built rifle. It's 'industrial ' looking for sure. For CAS it would not be my first choice, but I know those that like 'em. For hunting with big loads it seems to be perfect for it.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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My first encounter with the Henry Big boy, was on that western episode of NCIS. I had never heard of them and looked them up. I like the looks of there guns, i think there very attractive. After seeing one at gander mountain, i noticed that it only loads from the muzzle end. That one fact may be enough to prevent me from buying one. I wouldnt mind the front loading, if it was a option, but i would much prefere to load from the rear like the others.

 

Besides the obvious inconvienience of loading from the front, and the owner coming in and saying it was sass legal for a year before it was approved, why was the Big boy "boycotted" by the sass crowd. Is there some flaw in the gun that makes it low quality or unsafe or inaccurate?

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The one my shootin' pard had would not finish a stage without some foul-up, it was not accurate with cast bullets, the barrel leaded up like crazy even with low velocity loads and the action was stiff and gritty.

 

Some new shooters at my club, not knowing any better, started out with them. They are now shooting something else.

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My first encounter with the Henry Big boy, was on that western episode of NCIS. I had never heard of them and looked them up. I like the looks of there guns, i think there very attractive. After seeing one at gander mountain, i noticed that it only loads from the muzzle end. That one fact may be enough to prevent me from buying one. I wouldnt mind the front loading, if it was a option, but i would much prefere to load from the rear like the others.

 

Besides the obvious inconvienience of loading from the front, and the owner coming in and saying it was sass legal for a year before it was approved, why was the Big boy "boycotted" by the sass crowd. Is there some flaw in the gun that makes it low quality or unsafe or inaccurate?

 

They are a jammamatic piece of junk, totally unsuited to Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

I believe that qualifies as a "flaw".

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Years ago Cimarron went to Winchester to see if they had any interest in building the '73 again. They did not. Shame.

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Don't Quote me on tha magizene name as it was Women and guns er Guns of tha old west or something.

 

A gun writer contacted Kill-all-Kate about shooting A Ugly Boy in a SASS match before they were legal. He came to a local shoot with a HBB all tuned up for her ta shoot with ammo, If I remember right she never had a single stage tha rifle did not give trouble. Tha last thing she said to him was she wouldn't shoot one in a match that was something, even for a roll of hundreds.

Cut to tha article, (this is me remembering now) I think Cowboys an Indains, Manatee, Cody, and Jimmy Spurs all had a hand in that gun seeing how well it worked and how fast she could shoot it!!! A real must have.

 

I ain't give a dam for a gun writers test since.

 

 

RRR

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thanks for the quick reply, looks like i need to stay away from them. To bad seeing as they look very nice.

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Nice??? Huh? Most of us call it the Ugly Boy and not because they look nice.

 

To me they look like a cartoon version of a real gun.

 

Be that as it may, many many SASS shooters could get beyond the looks if only they worked.

 

Alas, they do not. And that's the saddest part of the whole sad deal.

 

And a real mystery to this child. Their 22s work so well, you would think the big bores would too.

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As fer all the negetive comments on the HBB, I kinda wish I had gotten a 73 or somethin else besides the BB just cause they are more period correct and more accurate but I gotta say my BB has yet to jam or lock up. Guess I just got lucky.

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As fer all the negetive comments on the HBB, I kinda wish I had gotten a 73 or somethin else besides the BB just cause they are more period correct and more accurate but I gotta say my BB has yet to jam or lock up. Guess I just got lucky.

 

 

Bob,

I've done action work on several of them. There's nothing wrong with those guns. Not any more than any of the other leverguns we shoot. The majority of the problems with any of them are usually ammo related. All our leverguns are length and bullet shape sensitive to some degree. Like semi-auto handguns, they can be picky about what they will run and the faster we try to go with them the more these problems tend to show up.

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My first encounter with the Henry Big boy, was on that western episode of NCIS. I had never heard of them and looked them up. I like the looks of there guns, i think there very attractive. After seeing one at gander mountain, i noticed that it only loads from the muzzle end. That one fact may be enough to prevent me from buying one. I wouldnt mind the front loading, if it was a option, but i would much prefere to load from the rear like the others.

 

Besides the obvious inconvienience of loading from the front, and the owner coming in and saying it was sass legal for a year before it was approved, why was the Big boy "boycotted" by the sass crowd. Is there some flaw in the gun that makes it low quality or unsafe or inaccurate?

The ones that load from the front and have no forend, are the original Henrys and replicas therof. The henry big boy is a new mass produced cheap rifle, that resembles nothing produced in the 19th century. The manufactors had the bad taste and illmanners to use the name of an authentic historical rifle as a promotional gimmic.

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There advertizements showing Lincolns "Henry Rifle" and the implication that they were actually connected to the real historic "Henry Rifles" was so low down and underhanded that I would NEVER have considered buying ANYTHING from them. :D

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There advertizements showing Lincolns "Henry Rifle" and the implication that they were actually connected to the real historic "Henry Rifles" was so low down and underhanded that I would NEVER have considered buying ANYTHING from them. :D

 

Yep you nailed it! Just what I was thinkin......... :lol:

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Doc Cuervo the new henry big boy also loads from the front, Which along with all the negitive posts i have seen will most likely keep me from purchasing one. I looked again at the store and the HBB i saw had no loading gate in the front, or that i could see underneith the reciever.(tho i may have missed it) The only loading feature i saw was a little gate near the muzzle.

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The only loading feature i saw was a little gate near the muzzle.

 

Yep - it loads just like a .22 plinking gun.

 

Except for the brassy exterior, the HBB really isn't anything new. If you look at an exploded parts schematic of one, it's a Marlin 336.

 

I suppose if one was totally enamored of the look, you could get some of the brass or gold tone Dura Coat and put it on a 73, or a 92, or even a 94 Marlin.

You'd have the best of both worlds ... then again, maybe not.

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Sounds like someone who either hasn't fired one, or seen it in action...possible bent on giving a company a bad name for some reason.

 

The fella that has his Henry in these parts seems to do fine with it. No issues. Ain't the fastest, but it works.

 

GG ~ :)

 

They are a jammamatic piece of junk, totally unsuited to Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

I believe that qualifies as a "flaw".

 

 

Nice??? Huh? Most of us call it the Ugly Boy and not because they look nice.

 

To me they look like a cartoon version of a real gun.

 

Be that as it may, many many SASS shooters could get beyond the looks if only they worked.

 

Alas, they do not. And that's the saddest part of the whole sad deal.

 

And a real mystery to this child. Their 22s work so well, you would think the big bores would too.

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I believe a 32 built on the Golden Boy platform would sell, if do-able.

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Could somebody idenify a single rifle that is usable out of the factory box. No, guns you buy tuned from Nate, Cody or Long Hunter don't count. Something that is match ready out of the box?

 

I would love to find an American made rifle I could successfully use in SASS. Only Marlin and Henry manufacture candidates, but neither of them is slick out of the box. On the other hand the Uberti 66, 73 and the Rossi 92 aren't slick out of the box either.

 

My only problem with the Big Boy is that is seems heavy to me. I don't know if anybody has ever really studied the Big Boy to see if increasing speed is possible.

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Sounds like someone who either hasn't fired one, or seen it in action...possible bent on giving a company a bad name for some reason.

 

The fella that has his Henry in these parts seems to do fine with it. No issues. Ain't the fastest, but it works.

 

GG ~ :lol:

 

I have seen more than just a few brought to the line by poor unsuspecting cowboys who don't research the Ugly Boy's pitiful reliability issues. They struggle to get thru a stage much less a match without the bloomin' thingie chokin'. Most don't bother to bring them back to a second match. They are ugly, they do not work well for CAS and their tactics and ads are reprehensible.

 

I can find nothing to recommend that any CAS shooter, newbie or vet, waste a nickel on one.

 

I do not have any vendetta against the company or it's owners. I wish things were different. It would be nice to have a good American rifle. Unfortunately we got that sow's ear.

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