A 9mm Autoloader Question for Those in the Know

[John Kloehr]

4 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

...  Wife bought a Sig 239 Rose...

Heard good things about the Rose, also Lena's promoted carry rig for ladies is well-reviewed. But as to the gun, I consider the "Lady Smith" example. Lots of male law enforcement really liked it and I bought a 3913 and it is also a good gun.

Edited March 10 by John Kloehr
commas vs ellipsis

[Doc Shapiro]

39 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Heard good things about the Rose, also Lena's promoted carry rig for ladies is well-reviewed. But as to the gun, I consider the "Lady Smith" example. Lots of male law enforcement really liked it and I bought a 3913 and it is also a good gun.

Wife wasn't happy with the trigger pull on that revolver.  Though it was my initial suggestion.  She really likes the Rose, and it's easy for her to handle.

[DeaconKC]

12 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I have an interest in all 5 of the guns listed in the heading. ALL 5 are 9mm

Sig Sauer P226 M25 - Navy Seal weapon until 2015. 
Sig Sauer P229 M11A1 -Military version - this is the gun I am leaning towards.  
Beretta 92FS M9 - Military pistol for many years. 
Springfield Ronin 4.25” - lesser expensive 1911

Springfield Garrison 4.25” - budget 1911

Do any of you have experience with any of these and what are your thoughts?

I must admit that I am leaning towards the Sig Sauers, but I like the idea of the other 3 as well. 
I have shot other people’s Sigs and have always been vicariously impressed with them.

I have only handled the Beretta 92FS. Never shot one. 
I have never owned or fired a 9mm 1911, but have lots of experience with full sized .45 ACP 1911s. 

I picked Springfield Armory models because they are USA made and from what I have read, very reliable. 
 

What are your thoughts on these guns?

 

Thank you. 

Okay, I admit to being a Sig snob because they are really good guns. The 229's grip is shorter than the 226's giving up a couple of rounds capacity and the slide is roughly 1/2" shorter. I regularly carry my 229 with a Desantis Viper holster or a Bianchi IWB Pro and it shoots great. The 226 is really a fullsize gun better suited to OWB carry for comfort.

The Berettas are very good guns if it fits your hand ok, some shooters find it a little too big. Like the 226, it is gonna take a lot of effort for concealed carry.

Bothe the Commander [4.25"] 1911s are really good pistols and smooth to shoot. Being SAO, they will have the best triggers of the guns listed. Again, I use the Bianchi Pro for IWB carry on my commander size guns as it has a nice thick piece of leather to protect your hide. For 1911s that are US made you can look at Ruger and S&W [my regular carry 1911 is a S&W Scandium frame with a bobtail].

[Pat Riot]

15 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

Okay, I admit to being a Sig snob because they are really good guns. The 229's grip is shorter than the 226's giving up a couple of rounds capacity and the slide is roughly 1/2" shorter. I regularly carry my 229 with a Desantis Viper holster or a Bianchi IWB Pro and it shoots great. The 226 is really a fullsize gun better suited to OWB carry for comfort.

The Berettas are very good guns if it fits your hand ok, some shooters find it a little too big. Like the 226, it is gonna take a lot of effort for concealed carry.

Bothe the Commander [4.25"] 1911s are really good pistols and smooth to shoot. Being SAO, they will have the best triggers of the guns listed. Again, I use the Bianchi Pro for IWB carry on my commander size guns as it has a nice thick piece of leather to protect your hide. For 1911s that are US made you can look at Ruger and S&W [my regular carry 1911 is a S&W Scandium frame with a bobtail].

Thank you. Nice write up. I appreciate it. 

[watab kid]

i have to correct my original post - i do know the springfields in that i do own an EMP , i forgot about it , ive not carried it in a good number of years nor shot it , actually my wife owns one as well , funny how things slip your mind , i do like my EMP its a great pistol carried it for a few years till i switched to a sig , my wife switched to a sig as well , about five years ago now , 

[Pat Riot]

7 hours ago, watab kid said:

i have to correct my original post - i do know the springfields in that i do own an EMP , i forgot about it , ive not carried it in a good number of years nor shot it , actually my wife owns one as well , funny how things slip your mind , i do like my EMP its a great pistol carried it for a few years till i switched to a sig , my wife switched to a sig as well , about five years ago now , 

Don’t feel bad. I am forgetful as well. 
Thanks for the review of the EMP. 

[Equanimous Phil]

My Beretta fits my quite small hands surprisingly well, but I switched the trigger to one with a bit shorter reach (Wilson I guess) and also got an extended mag release button. As most 92s are double/single action, reaching the safety isn't an issue as you just don't use the thumb safety except for decocking. I used this gun when I started with IPSC (as it was what I had back then) and did quite well it. Sometimes when the starting condition was empty or empty chamber and i had to rack the slide I accidently engaged the safety. I even considered to change it to a decocker only therefore, but decided to go with more suitable heavier guns for the sport (shooting all steel Tanfos now).

My Beretta never had a single malfunction!

17 rounds is the max. you get with a flush magazine base. I can fit 18 rounds in my Mec Gar mags but can only insert them with the slide open. Compared to my SIG P365XMacro (which also holds 17+1) it looks and feels huge! For me, the 92 is still a cool gun but also kind of outdated.

 

Some more thoughts:

I wouldn't want to carry a gun I enjoy on the range because they are huge and heavy and have light(er) triggers.

I wouldn't enjoy shooting a striker fire pistol on the range (except maybe a Walther Q5 SF)

Most bore axis on SIG striker fire pistols are IMHO unnecessary high or rather the beaver tail too low, which results in additional muzzle rise.

[Pat Riot]

16 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Compared to my SIG P365XMacro (which also holds 17+1) it looks and feels huge! For me, the 92 is still a cool gun but also kind of outdated.

Thank You, Phil. I am kind of outdated myself. 
I’m curious about your Sig P365 XMacro. How do you like it. Is it snappy when firing 115 grain 9mm ammo?

I was looking at the P365 XMacro Tacops online yesterday and was wondering about how snappy they are to shoot regarding recoil. They appear slim compared to Glocks. 

[Chantry]

Is there any reason not expand the search beyond the 5 guns in your OP?  And are you planning on getting one with a RMR cut already present.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

10 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Is there any reason not expand the search beyond the 5 guns in your OP?  And are you planning on getting one with a RMR cut already present.

 

 

Those are guns that struck my fancy. I liked my experiences with the Sigs. I have no experience with Berettas but everyone I have met that owns them really likes them. The 2 1911 I selected were more for budgetary reasons, they fire 9mm and I am very familiar with the 1911 in general. 
I do plan to look at the Springfield SA-35 (Browning Hi Power clone).

 

[Cypress Sun]

48 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Is there any reason not expand the search beyond the 5 guns in your OP?  And are you planning on getting one with a RMR cut already present.

 

 

 

Wondered that myself.

 

Canik firearms are worth a look. The TP9SFx is an excellent firearm for the money....hell, it's a great firearm regardless of the money.

[Pat Riot]

5 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Wondered that myself.

 

Canik firearms are worth a look. The TP9SFx is an excellent firearm for the money....hell, it's a great firearm regardless of the money.

That is an interesting pistol. My nephew has a METE Compact. It’s a nice shooter. I liked it when I shot it. 
 

I decided I wanted a metal framed pistol. The Sig and 1911 based guns are guns I have good memories of shooting. The 92F2 has just interested me for some time now. 
 

I have decided, after hitting the range with my Glocks today, that unless my son-in-law wants one of my Glocks my last 3 are going down the road. I am keeping my Ruger RXM. 

 

I think I am going to treat myself and get the Sig Sauer 226 or the 229 that I listed at the start of this thread. I will probably end up with both at some point. 
 

Thank you, everyone, for your help. 

Edited March 10 by Pat Riot

[J-BAR #18287]

The only CZ/ 9 mm I own is the 2075 RAMI P, sub compact that resides at my bedside.  It is a discontinued model.  It comforts my sleep with its 14 round magazine.  It has never jammed with any commercial 9mm cartridges.   I do not reload 9mm.

 

A Sig pistol would likely be my choice if I didn't already have this one.  Trust your gut.

 

 I agree with the sentiment to dispose of guns that cause you aggravation whatever the reason.

 

Buy something.  Shoot it.  Get rid of it if it is a source of irritation.  Repeat as needed.

[Texas Lizard]

5 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I think I am going to treat myself and get the Sig Sauer 226 or the 229 that I listed at the start of this thread. I will probably end up with both at some point. 
 

Thank you, everyone, for your help. 

You do know you need two of each....Just in case one breaks....Got to have a back up....

 

Texas Lizard

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

7 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 I agree with the sentiment to dispose of guns that cause you aggravation whatever the reason.

Buy something.  Shoot it.  Get rid of it if it is a source of irritation.  Repeat as needed.

I wholeheartedly agree. Although, there have been one or two occasions where working with such a gun can have positive results. 

Bigmouth, my EDC 1911 couldn't shoot for crap when I got him. I got so frustrated that I was ready to trade him off. On a whim, at an indoor range I frequent, I stepped out and got a box of WW White Box to try instead of the cheap gun show ammo I was shooting. Made a total difference. 

The Hungarian Hi Power I mentioned earlier was such a POS with the first shooting that I nearly returned it to the store. It wouldn't fire more than 2 shots without jamming. Again frustrated, I went into the "shop" side of the range and grabbed a couple USA magazines for it. I asked and they agreed that if they worked I'd buy them. HOLY COW they worked. I got a third and those magazines are still with the gun today. 

 

[watab kid]

16 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

Don’t feel bad. I am forgetful as well. 
Thanks for the review of the EMP. 

your welcome , its a great pistol , if id not gotten the sig id never have given that up for my carry pistol , i cant speak for my wife but i suspect she feels the same , these are fine carry guns , i cant speak to much else of their line , 

 

i do have a rock island lower on my kimber 22lr upper conversion unit and i can say thats well made too but its about 10 years old now so cant speak to todays products , 

[Equanimous Phil]

16 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I’m curious about your Sig P365 XMacro. How do you like it. Is it snappy when firing 115 grain 9mm ammo?

I was looking at the P365 XMacro Tacops online yesterday and was wondering about how snappy they are to shoot regarding recoil. They appear slim compared to Glocks. 

 

I was looking for a small too with night sights and this SIG felt good in my hand and had considerably better trigger out of the box and more capacity than similar models from other brands (also reflected on the price tag...) I like the gun but do not shoot it that often. It's indeed a very slim pistol. The grip is quite small despite containing a double-stack mag. It comes with three different backstraps to fit your hand and I am using the thinnest one as I have small hands. I expect the grip to feel too small for a lot of men.

My Derringer put aside, all my other handguns are heavy and big (cowboy wheel guns, 1911s, all steel Tanfos, Beretta 92) and the SIG is so far my only Tupperware pistol. So, I don't have much comparison regarding recoil. I just remember that I expected such a light gun to be snappier when I first shot it (115grn)! My exact model is the P365 XMacro Comp . But I guess it's only for the aesthetics and the compensating effect is neglectable as only the slide is ported (not the barrel) and a real compensator needs a lot of gas pressure to work properly. Real recoil comes down to physics and I wouldn't expect the P365 XMacro to act any different compared to a similar sized Glock as they have similar bore axis hights. But felt recoil is all about ergonomics, so a what feels good in your hand will have less felt recoil.

[Pat Riot]

9 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Buy something.  Shoot it.  Get rid of it if it is a source of irritation.  Repeat as needed.

I truly believe that from accidents, a couple of surgeries and age my hands have changed. 
Let’s put it this way: You know those TV shows and movies where the cop has a Glock and he or she shoots a bad guy in the forehead while the bad guy is holding a hostage? I used to be able to do that “one shot stop” at 25 yards with all my full sized Glocks. I actually practiced this just for kicks. It was a challenge for myself. 
Now, I would pity the poor hostage and feel remorse. Luckily all my hostage scenarios are on paper. 

I gave my Glocks or Glocks in general a lot of leeway. I would never bother this much with any other gun. 
I am done with that bother. Though I am keeping my Ruger RXM and Polymer 80 Glock clones. I can’t sell the P80 anyway. 

[Pat Riot]

8 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. Although, there have been one or two occasions where working with such a gun can have positive results. 

Bigmouth, my EDC 1911 couldn't shoot for crap when I got him. I got so frustrated that I was ready to trade him off. On a whim, at an indoor range I frequent, I stepped out and got a box of WW White Box to try instead of the cheap gun show ammo I was shooting. Made a total difference. 

The Hungarian Hi Power I mentioned earlier was such a POS with the first shooting that I nearly returned it to the store. It wouldn't fire more than 2 shots without jamming. Again frustrated, I went into the "shop" side of the range and grabbed a couple USA magazines for it. I asked and they agreed that if they worked I'd buy them. HOLY COW they worked. I got a third and those magazines are still with the gun today. 

 

I don’t have a problem doing reasonable fixes or mods with a gun to fix reliability or accuracy, but when it gets to be a quest, I am done. Life is too short for unreliable guns or anything else, for that matter. 
 

One of my big problems is not really a problem if my persistence (stubborn bull-headedness, as my wife calls it) pays off, but I get engrossed and so focused on fixing the problem that hours and hours go by and money gets spent and it ends in acceptance of the problem or disappointment. 
I am done accepting problems. 
 

[Pat Riot]

Some things I have never seen on any online forum or uttered by someone at a gun store, gun show or at the range:

 

I have a problem with my Sig Sauer.

I have a problem with my CZ. 

I have a problem with my FN - though this could be because not many people buy FN firearms. 
 

I am pretty much done with buying guns that need modification to “make them better”.  DONE!

 

EDIT: This doesn’t include adding better sights or accessories. I am talking physical repairs or mechanical updates. 

Edited March 11 by Pat Riot

[ShadowCatcher]

I've shot various SIG, both metal and polymer.  Remind me of Glocks.

 

I own a few 1911's in 9mm and .45, carry the .45 most often of those.

 

I also shoot the Beretta 92 compact, with a Langdon Trigger job and Red Dot sight.

It's much easier to carry than the 1911, has an awesome trigger, 15 rds 9mm and

it's within tiny fractions of an inch of the size of a Glock 19. 

 

In six years and thousands of rounds I've never had a failure with the 92.

 

I've a Ronin as well, and three friends at my range do as well.  Every one of them had a

weak extractor that needed tuning, two of them had bad barrels, and were sent back to the

mother ship for extensive but free repairs.  QC seems to be like at S&W - a thing of the past.

 

If I had to keep only one it would be my 92c.

  SC

 

 

[Chantry]

This is more of a general statement, when selecting a new gun for competition, CCW or Home Defense, make sure there is aftermarket support & products for the gun.

 

 

[watab kid]

On 3/10/2025 at 10:00 AM, Pat Riot said:

Those are guns that struck my fancy. I liked my experiences with the Sigs. I have no experience with Berettas but everyone I have met that owns them really likes them. The 2 1911 I selected were more for budgetary reasons, they fire 9mm and I am very familiar with the 1911 in general. 
I do plan to look at the Springfield SA-35 (Browning Hi Power clone).

 

i think you will like the hi=power  , they feel good and have the added capacity , 

i had a CZ75 , it was a very nice pistol , i gifted it to my godson/nephew to shoot pistol leagues with his FIL , 

Edited March 12 by watab kid