Most trustable RV brand

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

It would be suicide to try to pull any fifth wheel with a 1/2 ton truck.  Don't do it.  A semi floating axle is not suitable for anything other than isolated, occasional trailering. 

 

Also, I'm virtually certain that regardless of what they claim, if you weigh their "1/2 ton towable" 5th wheel when hitched to your truck, you will find you're overloaded.  Years ago I had a truck camper that was supposedly 1/2 ton capable.  It overloaded my 1 ton SRW truck with a weekend worth of stuff inside and the dog.  Don't believe a word they say.

 

All RVs are garbage in terms of build quality.  Unless you have a really great shop and a lot of money, be prepared to spend weekends caulking and inspecting your trailer.

 

 

Most 3/4 ton trucks don't have sufficient payload for even a mid sized 5th wheel, either, especially older ones.  If I had to pull a 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton, I would probably not buy one that was over 30' long.

 

My best suggestion to the original poster is to buy a travel trailer.  5th wheels do have advantages, but all of that is negated if you don't have enough truck to deal with the pin weight.  Even the newer 3/4 tons with a 10k lb GVWR still only have ~2500 pounds of payload.  With two people in the cab and the hitch itself, that doesn't leave much remaining GVWR for pin weight. 

 

3/4 T has much higher gross weight rating, suspension and far more braking ability than any 1/2T will ever have.

Agree 110% about going 1T. Never regretted mine.

[Old Man Graybeard]

Also…check what weight rating the axles have. Some of the campers now have too light axles for the intended purpose. I had a Raptor toy hauler…had troubles every year. Had a spring hanger break off the frame…had springs break…had a bent axle. It only had 7000 lb axles under it. Probably overweight before anything was loaded into the unit. The camper I have now is 5000 lbs lighter and has 10,000 lb axles under it. The company said….well…we have all these others out there that haven’t had any problems 

[Perro Del Diablo]

1 hour ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said:

Keystone and Jayco are two of the most reliable brands. You'll need a one ton truck for Keystone trailers. The smallest Jayco, 29', could be done with a 3/4 ton truck. Why not a travel trailer?

amount of time i may be having to stay in it. some of the better features and layout not available in 5th wheel

[John Kloehr]

23 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

3/4 T has much higher gross weight rating, suspension and far more braking ability than any 1/2T will ever have.

Agree 110% about going 1T. Never regretted mine.

I still use the terms "1/2 ton" and "3/4 ton." Both have much more capacity* than that today compared to decades ago.

 

But your point still applies. The Ford F250 has more capability* than the F150, same for General Motors 2500 vs 1500. I don't recall the model designations for Dodge but the same applies. Heavier duty brakes, axles, and suspension completely change the towing experience.

 

Every maker has a towing guide which outlines the true capacity of each model "as equipped." For instance, 4WD reduces capacity. The biggest engine usually does not have the highest capacity, but greatly improves the experience in hills when within the capacity it does have. Do not trust the truck salesperson any more than an RV salesperson.

 

As to RV forums, I would like to know where everyone went after RV.net was taken over by Camping World. That was a great forum 20+ years ago but no longer seems to have the same experienced membership to help new folks get started.

 

* I chose the words "capacity" and "capability" on purpose. They are different.

[Perro Del Diablo]

3 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I still use the terms "1/2 ton" and "3/4 ton." Both have much more capacity* than that today compared to decades ago.

 

But your point still applies. The Ford F250 has more capability* than the F150, same for General Motors 2500 vs 1500. I don't recall the model designations for Dodge but the same applies. Heavier duty brakes, axles, and suspension completely change the towing experience.

 

Every maker has a towing guide which outlines the true capacity of each model "as equipped." For instance, 4WD reduces capacity. The biggest engine usually does not have the highest capacity, but greatly improves the experience in hills when within the capacity it does have. Do not trust the truck salesperson any more than an RV salesperson.

 

As to RV forums, I would like to know where everyone went after RV.net was taken over by Camping World. That was a great forum 20+ years ago but no longer seems to have the same experienced membership to help new folks get started.

 

* I chose the words "capacity" and "capability" on purpose. They are different.

Totally agree. I had a rv salesman try to tell me that my v6 1/2 ton Chevy would have no problem with 10000 lb. trailer. At that time i was looking for under 5000. now my Duramax has a lot more capability and capacity but still don't want to max out either. i intend to keep this truck while longer, not beat it like dead mule and trade for new payments

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

33 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I still use the terms "1/2 ton" and "3/4 ton." Both have much more capacity* than that today compared to decades ago.

 

But your point still applies. The Ford F250 has more capability* than the F150, same for General Motors 2500 vs 1500. I don't recall the model designations for Dodge but the same applies. Heavier duty brakes, axles, and suspension completely change the towing experience.

 

Every maker has a towing guide which outlines the true capacity of each model "as equipped." For instance, 4WD reduces capacity. The biggest engine usually does not have the highest capacity, but greatly improves the experience in hills when within the capacity it does have. Do not trust the truck salesperson any more than an RV salesperson.

 

As to RV forums, I would like to know where everyone went after RV.net was taken over by Camping World. That was a great forum 20+ years ago but no longer seems to have the same experienced membership to help new folks get started.

 

* I chose the words "capacity" and "capability" on purpose. They are different.

Stopping, is more important than pull'n!

3/4 & 1T have far more braking ability. 

[Old Man Graybeard]

I pull my camper with a 3/4 ton Chevy Dura max with no problem. I did however…put air bags on it with an onboard air system. Works great. I pump it up to about 60 lbs air. It takes the little bounce out of it…with either with a bumper hitch or fifth wheel 

[Eyesa Horg]

6 hours ago, Perro Del Diablo said:

Around the 30 ft is the size i want to look at. I might be spending extended time in it is why im looking at more than just a travel trailer. My truck is a diesel 3/4 ton chevy. I dont want to stress it any more than neccesary so the reason for lighter

I pull an 8000#+ 28' travel trailer with my '21 GMC Sierra 1500, 5.3 V8. It ties(tows) and stops like a dream. Smokes my F-250SD Ford! The Ford was always screaming and down shifting when it would see a hill a mile ahead! Had a hard time holding 60 on a long incline. The GMC just cruises along at whatever speed I choose and on long downhills it uses the engine to hold back speed rather than the brakes. Just my experience.

Edited April 30 by Eyesa Horg
Fricken otto

[El Chapo]

9 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

3/4 T has much higher gross weight rating, suspension and far more braking ability than any 1/2T will ever have.

Agree 110% about going 1T. Never regretted mine.

 

Higher, but not much higher.  It's also heavier.  My wife's F150 has a 7,200 lb GVWR.  An F250 Super Duty from the same era is 8,800.  The google machine puts the curb weight of her rig, which is a Supercab/4x4 at ~5,400 leaving 1,800 pounds of payload.  My (similar year) Ram 3500 is 7,080 pounds full of diesel.  Assuming a similar year F250 is comparable in curb weight, the 3/4 ton truck would have 1,720 pounds of payload--less than my wife's F150 .

 

The above number is the one that many people seem to ignore but it's the first rating you run out of.  An F250 might have a higher GVWR, stiffer suspension, and larger brakes (along with a whole lot of other things that make it "heavier" duty) but those things also make it heavier and subtract from the payload. GVWRs are higher now for 3/4 tons, more like 10,000 pounds.  The trucks weigh a little more, too, ~7,500 or so for a 4 door 4x4.  But 2,500 pounds of payload is way better than 1,720.  But still not enough for any but the smallest 5th wheels, which my example below of my own experience will show you goes really quickly.  Without more GVWR, so there's no remaining payload for passengers, the dog, or even the hitch needed in the bed necessary to tow the trailer (mine weighs 180 pounds!).

 

These numbers are not made up for the purpose of making a point--I literally walked outside and opened the door of my wife's 2004 F150 to make this post.  Don't assume a 3/4 ton truck is "enough" for any 5th wheel.  A scale will show you otherwise.

 

 

Unrelated example but illustrative:

 

I like my 1 ton, and the new ones have a 12k pound GVWR for single wheel which gives you quite a bit more payload for pin weight, over 4k pounds gives a comfortable cushion.  I'm likely driving my last SRW truck, though, because as much as a dually is a pain in the butt, I'd rather have the peace of mind next time.

 

The manufacturer claimed my trailer is 8,200 or so empty with 2,200 pounds of pin weight.   I just found the weight ticket for it here that I'll attach to this post.  Total weight: 16,500.  That makes the empty weight of the trailer 9,420 minus the weight of the hitch, which was a manual slider at the time so say 100 pounds instead of 180.  That means the trailer itself is over a 1000 pounds heavier than its manufacturer claimed.  Their pin weight claim is about right on, 2,200 pounds empty, which I'm sure grows considerably when I put 100 gallons of water on board.  Total weight on the truck 9,380, which for me gives just over 500 more pounds for other passengers and dogs.  A 3/4 ton truck of the same year would be overloaded by 580 pounds before anything even went in the truck or trailer, before there was even a drop of water on board or a single pot or pan.  Much of what you put in a 5th wheel is going to add to the pin weight too, because the bathroom and bedroom are in the front.

 

My trailer is 35' long, but it has no slideouts, one a/c unit, no onboard generator, and in this example, nothing on board but me.  If you consult the GCWR or "tow capacity," I have almost another 5-6k pounds before that is busted.  But without more payload, a bigger trailer is outside the ratings.

 

Like I said, don't believe  word they say.  The scale doesn't lie.

 

  

9 hours ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

Also…check what weight rating the axles have. Some of the campers now have too light axles for the intended purpose. I had a Raptor toy hauler…had troubles every year. Had a spring hanger break off the frame…had springs break…had a bent axle. It only had 7000 lb axles under it. Probably overweight before anything was loaded into the unit. The camper I have now is 5000 lbs lighter and has 10,000 lb axles under it. The company said….well…we have all these others out there that haven’t had any problems 

 

Mine has 6k# axles, two of them.  As you can see above, total weight on both axles, 7,120 pounds, so barely over half of their capacity.

 

I'm not aware of any 16" tires that can handle 5k pounds each.  Even the load range F tires out there are only rated for 3,900 pounds or so, which doesn't even get you to 8k pounds.   Do you really have a camper with dually axles?  I've never seen one in person.  Or did someone install a 10k pound axle and then bolt 6.4k pounds of tires on it?  Because that's what the usual tire is rated for, ~3,200.

Edited May 1 by El Chapo

[Old Man Graybeard]

Tandem axle single wheel. With my pickup with a little water on board and a Harley and golf cart…I weighed 27500 for the whole thing. The camper I have now is 22500 and has 10,000 lb axle’s instead of 7000 lb axles. 

Edited May 1 by Old Man Graybeard

[El Chapo]

1 hour ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

Tandem axle single wheel. With my pickup with a little water on board and a Harley and golf cart…I weighed 27500 for the whole thing. The camper I have now is 22500 and has 10,000 lb axle’s instead of 7000 lb axles. 

 

What was the weight on the 4 wheels of the pickup when you weighed?

 

You may want to check your tire rating on the trailer btw: like I said, there are no 16" tires that would allow that 10k pound axle to its rated capacity.  I think most steel 16" wheels are rated for 3600 as well, some might be more though.  If you are 22.5k loaded combined, you're well within the ratings of most 16" trailer tires though and you'd be well within the ratings if you had 6k pound axles (pin weight not carried on trailer axles).

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

10 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

Higher, but not much higher.  It's also heavier.  My wife's F150 has a 7,200 lb GVWR.  An F250 Super Duty from the same era is 8,800.  The google machine puts the curb weight of her rig, which is a Supercab/4x4 at ~5,400 leaving 1,800 pounds of payload.  My (similar year) Ram 3500 is 7,080 pounds full of diesel.  Assuming a similar year F250 is comparable in curb weight, the 3/4 ton truck would have 1,720 pounds of payload--less than my wife's F150 .

 

The above number is the one that many people seem to ignore but it's the first rating you run out of.  An F250 might have a higher GVWR, stiffer suspension, and larger brakes (along with a whole lot of other things that make it "heavier" duty) but those things also make it heavier and subtract from the payload. GVWRs are higher now for 3/4 tons, more like 10,000 pounds.  The trucks weigh a little more, too, ~7,500 or so for a 4 door 4x4.  But 2,500 pounds of payload is way better than 1,720.  But still not enough for any but the smallest 5th wheels, which my example below of my own experience will show you goes really quickly.  Without more GVWR, so there's no remaining payload for passengers, the dog, or even the hitch needed in the bed necessary to tow the trailer (mine weighs 180 pounds!).

 

These numbers are not made up for the purpose of making a point--I literally walked outside and opened the door of my wife's 2004 F150 to make this post.  Don't assume a 3/4 ton truck is "enough" for any 5th wheel.  A scale will show you otherwise.

 

 

Unrelated example but illustrative:

 

I like my 1 ton, and the new ones have a 12k pound GVWR for single wheel which gives you quite a bit more payload for pin weight, over 4k pounds gives a comfortable cushion.  I'm likely driving my last SRW truck, though, because as much as a dually is a pain in the butt, I'd rather have the peace of mind next time.

 

The manufacturer claimed my trailer is 8,200 or so empty with 2,200 pounds of pin weight.   I just found the weight ticket for it here that I'll attach to this post.  Total weight: 16,500.  That makes the empty weight of the trailer 9,420 minus the weight of the hitch, which was a manual slider at the time so say 100 pounds instead of 180.  That means the trailer itself is over a 1000 pounds heavier than its manufacturer claimed.  Their pin weight claim is about right on, 2,200 pounds empty, which I'm sure grows considerably when I put 100 gallons of water on board.  Total weight on the truck 9,380, which for me gives just over 500 more pounds for other passengers and dogs.  A 3/4 ton truck of the same year would be overloaded by 580 pounds before anything even went in the truck or trailer, before there was even a drop of water on board or a single pot or pan.  Much of what you put in a 5th wheel is going to add to the pin weight too, because the bathroom and bedroom are in the front.

 

My trailer is 35' long, but it has no slideouts, one a/c unit, no onboard generator, and in this example, nothing on board but me.  If you consult the GCWR or "tow capacity," I have almost another 5-6k pounds before that is busted.  But without more payload, a bigger trailer is outside the ratings.

 

Like I said, don't believe  word they say.  The scale doesn't lie.

 

  

 

Mine has 6k# axles, two of them.  As you can see above, total weight on both axles, 7,120 pounds, so barely over half of their capacity.

 

I'm not aware of any 16" tires that can handle 5k pounds each.  Even the load range F tires out there are only rated for 3,900 pounds or so, which doesn't even get you to 8k pounds.   Do you really have a camper with dually axles?  I've never seen one in person.  Or did someone install a 10k pound axle and then bolt 6.4k pounds of tires on it?  Because that's what the usual tire is rated for, ~3,200.

Why I say, go with 1T with the tow package.

Loved my 4WD, crew cab Chevy dually I had.

Put a 12' Lance camper in the bed, and towed my CJ behind it.

[Anvil Al #59168]

We really like the horse trailer with living quarters idea. As we have always had horses and have a horse trailer anyway.

 

BUT.

 

Many RV campgrounds, including the main one we go to every year for almost 2 weeks. Simple DO NOT allow them.

Even if they are living quarters.

 

That's the main reason we have not went that route. 

 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

After over 50 years of towing I have learned a few lessons. I used to tow a 12,000# 28' boat to Baja for many years. Retired and sold the big boat. I bought a 24' Dutchman TT and towed it with a 1 ton Ford 4x4 diesel. Put 300,000 miles on it and now have a 2015 F450, 4x4 crew cab 6.7 diesel. I tow a 2012  28' Denali (made by Dutchman) which my wife and I love. I am not in the market for anything new, so I can't recommend a trailer brand. One thing I would strongly recommend, STORE YOUR RIG INDOORS! I have stored mine indoors since the day I bought it and it still looks like new. Become familiar with everything mechanical on the trailer, there will be a time that you will be on the road and you'll need to repair something. I also carry a lightweight floor jack and 2 spares. 

 

Good Luck!!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Anvil Al #59168 said:

We really like the horse trailer with living quarters idea. As we have always had horses and have a horse trailer anyway.

 

BUT.

 

Many RV campgrounds, including the main one we go to every year for almost 2 weeks. Simple DO NOT allow them.

Even if they are living quarters.

 

That's the main reason we have not went that route. 

 

What is their reasoning for this?  

[Texas Maverick]

51 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What is their reasoning for this?  

RV Parks are particular on who they let into their park. They also have issues with rv's older than 10 years old.They will require a picture of the unit if it is over 10 years old. Gotta protect their reputation I guess. I have never been told why they have this rule but it does exist. 

 

TM

[El Chapo]

45 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

RV Parks are particular on who they let into their park. They also have issues with rv's older than 10 years old.They will require a picture of the unit if it is over 10 years old. Gotta protect their reputation I guess. I have never been told why they have this rule but it does exist. 

 

TM

 

I have heard of places with that rule but I've stayed in some very nice RV parks with my 24 year old 5er and not had an issue.

 

I have heard that the reason for those rules is related to insurance and abandonment.  Apparently people rent a slip, install an old camper, and leave it behind, which results in the campgrounds having to dispose of the camper and maybe even sue the owner to obtain the ability to do that.  Insurance companies don't like the risk, so I guess they figure if your camper is expensive enough you won't do that. 

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

I have heard of places with that rule but I've stayed in some very nice RV parks with my 24 year old 5er and not had an issue.

 

I have heard that the reason for those rules is related to insurance and abandonment.  Apparently people rent a slip, install an old camper, and leave it behind, which results in the campgrounds having to dispose of the camper and maybe even sue the owner to obtain the ability to do that.  Insurance companies don't like the risk, so I guess they figure if your camper is expensive enough you won't do that. 

Another issue we have come across is what types of dogs they allow in their park. We have a rescued white german shepherd that is a sweet heart but found some parks did not allow german shepherds so we now just say she is a lab mix. Since she is a rescue we don't know exactly what she is so we go with the lab mix and haven't had any issues since then. 

 

 

 

TM

Edited May 1 by Texas Maverick

[Dusty Devil Dale]

On 4/29/2024 at 7:07 PM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Do not, do not buy from Caping World. Research dealers as much as makers.

I found the exact same rig, same manufacture month, at another local dealer for less than 2/3 of the Camping World price.  And the other dealer actually has a qualified service staff who actually do repairs properly with no BS, unlike CW.   

 

Do heed Irish Ike's advice!

[Texas Joker]

Check credit unions for ropo deals

[Barry Sloe]

Whatever you decide to do make sure that your tow vehicle really exceeds the requirements needed to tow your trailer. 

I had a new 2016 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 hemi rated to tow 10,000 lbs. With a 2200 lb ATC enclosed m/c trailer I was getting 7-9 mpg. With 1500 lb of cargo, cruise set at 65, tow/haul engaged - still got 7 -9 mpg but was running 4,000 rpm on uphill grades to maintain 65 mph.

The hemi was traded for a 6.7 diesel which will pull pretty much anything with little effort. I did add air bags on the rear suspension. The hitch weight was enough to drop the rear bumper which in turn raised the headlamps (and that pisses off drivers coming at you at night).

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. 

Barry Sloe 

[El Chapo]

23 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

Another issue we have come across is what types of dogs they allow in their park. We have a rescued white german shepherd that is a sweet heart but found some parks did not allow german shepherds so we now just say she is a lab mix. Since she is a rescue we don't know exactly what she is so we go with the lab mix and haven't had any issues since then. 

 

 

 

TM

 

We have a dog who looks just like yours!  We had her DNA tested and she came back German shepherd, Siberian Husky, Boxer, and a mix of various pit bull breeds.  Nobody has ever cared when we took her to RV parks.

[Texas Maverick]

1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

 

We have a dog who looks just like yours!  We had her DNA tested and she came back German shepherd, Siberian Husky, Boxer, and a mix of various pit bull breeds.  Nobody has ever cared when we took her to RV parks.

I have only had 2 and they both were in the west, one in UT and one in AZ.

 

TM

[Stump Water]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:44 AM, Anvil Al #59168 said:

We really like the horse trailer with living quarters idea. As we have always had horses and have a horse trailer anyway.

 

BUT.

 

Many RV campgrounds, including the main one we go to every year for almost 2 weeks. Simple DO NOT allow them.

Even if they are living quarters.

 

That's the main reason we have not went that route. 

 

 

On 5/1/2024 at 11:41 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What is their reasoning for this?  

 

What do horse trailers smell like?  How close are you to your neighbor in an RV campground?