Doc R Domingo Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Question on 45 colt seating& crimping. I am using RCBS Carbide 45 colt dies, unfired new starline brass, 200 gr Cast SWC. To keep at just under max OAL (1.5970), the bullet is seated above crimping groove. I have also tried sierra 200 gr V and in order to stay just below max oal, the case mouth is above the cannelure. Am I doing something wrong or is this acceptable? Help, input suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbone Willie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 My Lever gun they need to be 1.580” or less to cycle. Put a good crimp on them and don’t worry about the crimp groove. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just a warning.....SWC don't always feed smoothly into a rifle. OK for revolvers. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 If you are buying the cast bullets and want to use a 200 g in your Colt chambered rifle purchase the 200g lead round nose flat points offered by several of the popular bullet venders that support SASS. Most have crimp grooves that will locate the bullet at the correct length to function in most rifles. Something like 1.565” to 1.585” depending on how picky your rifle is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Don't seat and crimp on same station. You sure the die is clean internally? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 hours ago, Doc R Domingo said: Question on 45 colt seating& crimping. I am using RCBS Carbide 45 colt dies, unfired new starline brass, 200 gr Cast SWC. To keep at just under max OAL (1.5970), the bullet is seated above crimping groove. I have also tried sierra 200 gr V and in order to stay just below max oal, the case mouth is above the cannelure. Am I doing something wrong or is this acceptable? Help, input suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks. Doc Different bullets will have the crimp groove located differently. In fact I would be quite surprised if even two bullets had the crimp groove positioned to provide the same OAL, let alone several. Sixgun Seamus is correct, SWCs don't work well in most rifles, the wider the meplat, the harder they are to feed. I seat & crimp in the same step, necessary to use a powder check on a Dillon 550. And while the SAMMI spec is a max OAL of 1.600", that's for revolvers, most rifle require a length shy of this by differing amounts. My newest 1873, requires a max length of around 1.579". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Absolutely not a SWC bullet. It won't feed reliably in any of my lever guns. Use either a Truncated Cone (TC) or a RNFP (round nose flat point). I run a 200 gr TC bullet with no crimp groove, but cast soft (at 8 Brinnell) so that I can put the OAL where I like it. Usually about 1.550" A crimp as firm as I can without bulging the case right below the crimp. Which with the thick case walls of .45 Colt, means a very firm crimp is obtainable. The firm crimp helps ensure the cleanest possible burn and less blowback gasses. good luck, GJ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I load rnfp in my cowboy calibers. But I did load some hotter (not max) 44 mag loads with 240gr swc bullets. They cycled great in my 44 mag Marlin. Crimped right in the crimp groove. The oal is right at the maximum 1.61". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 No SWC for me and OAL depends on the rifle. A '73 I had liked shorter than maximum Iength. My Lightning in .45 likes them at 1.60." My Rossi doesn't care and will feed empty cases. I seat and crimp in 2 stages using the Lee 4 die carbide set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 as noted often above RNFP bullets and crimp where needed for your OAL without thinking about the grooves - i too load a RNFP 200grn .452 bullet in my 45colt , i adjusted my OAL to run in rifles and use them in revolvers , a bit shy of what you noted in your OP to work consistently in all my rifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I just checked my 45 Colt loads and found them to be 1.585". I crimp it right in the crimp grove. It's a 200 gr RNFP. Works well in my Marlin 94. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenW Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 200 grain RNFP from just about anyone, crimp in crimping groove and they run fine through my Marlin and 1866. Also, if your cases start splitting along the case walls consider an older "steel" die instead of the carbide die. I personally think the carbide dies size the cases too much. Yup, extra work but worth it for me. I do the same with .35/.357's as well. Just my peculiar OCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) To minimize the overworking of .45 Colt cases during sizing, I went to the Redding 2-ring carbide sizer. Lower ring several thousandths larger diameter than the upper ring that sizes the mouth/neck of the case. Unfortunately, I believe they are no longer made. Sigh. Great design and function, I no longer get hardly ANY case splits midway way down the shell. Perhaps folks can convince Redding to make them again? GJ Edited January 21 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) In nearly 38 years of shooting 45 Colt in revolvers, and & 36 years of using a 45 Colt Uberti '73 Sporting rifle in cowboy action matches, I've never had a split case mouth, I will from time to time have a split in the body of the case. For the 1st 2 years I used a single stage RCBS press and their standard dies. In 1987 I went to a Dillon 550 and carbide dies. I have 3 sets of carbide dies, one set on a toolhead for the 550 for 45 Colt, one set on a toolhead for C45S, and one set in the box for range use with developing loads on the Lyman Spartan press. I don't tally how many times my brass has been loaded, so that with a little over 1,500 fired cases rotating thru my loading and cleaning cycles, undoubtedly some of it has probably seen much more use than others. Using what I consider a median load, (~850 fps from 24-¼" bbl), with bullet weights between 200 & 230 grains, the fired cases used in various 45 Colt rifles (6), will sometimes see a slight bulge on one side of the case. I believe this is the bottom of the cartridge as it rests in the chamber, being held more to the top of the chamber by the extractor, and therefor what case expansion there is, is at the bottom. I'm fairly confident that repeated orientation at the same position overworks the brass after full length sizing each time. As I don't segregate my brass by age or brand, this random repeated orientation is just that, random, & unpredictable. Losing a piece or 3 every 4-500 reloads, doesn't concern me. Way less than the number of cases ejected forward of the firing line. With a couple thousand new cases ready to take a turn in my loading rotation, I don't sweat losing a few pieces of brass... If I were trying to shoot every weekend and had a "budget" of only a few hundred cases or less... I might sweat it a little more. Why, I might even get anxious over not being able to order brass at any given time! Edited January 21 by Griff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Over the years I have had the same results as Griff. Very few cases cracked at the case mouth but "some" cases just split in the body. I have however, been annealing my cases to get a good chamber seal in rifles and eliminate Blow-By. All bets are off however with Nickel brass. Those split like crazy. Running Semi-Wadcutters in our lever rifles will not give harmonious results. Jamming will be constant. Best bet will be most any of the 180Gr or 200Gr RNFP bullets which are designed to be crimped IN the crimp groove for a good functional overall length. I don't seat and crimp with a single die. Separate seating and crimping as I load on a DILLON 650. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 i started this game 25+ years ago with used brass and stuff i bought at gun shows , added to by range finds by friends - im still shooting/reloading all but maybe 20 pieces ive recycled because of cracks in the cases , i dont anneal mine , i did supplement my supply along the way with 100 pieces of new starline that i got as a door prize at a match once , i no longer can tell the difference of these from what i started with - but i have thousands of rounds of 45 colt in my locker these days so its a moot point really , we dont wear these out very quickly in CAS , and we reload them often even if we rotate our stock regularly ---with low velocity cowboy loads it just doesnt wear them out very fast , i know not everyone has the same luck with their brass , they dont all used the same dies and reloading machines , they dont have the same access to brass that i do - or good friends that collect it for them when they see it , we dont all clean the same and some are more anal in the things they do to their loading , im one that tumbles dry , deprime/resizes , bells , then hand primes , hand charges and sets my bullets , i dont have an issue keeping up as i have those thousands of rounds and i dont shoot in cold weather which is all winter here - i reload then , im just finishing up last years shooting this next couple weeks as i can , wont be shooting till laye may or early june , only delayed by all the home projects my wife seems to find for me to do , dont overthink this - find a load you like a bullet weight you want and use one of the shapes that work in our rifles - i was fortunate to know some shooters before i even decided to start they gave me good info on the loads from what powders work well , what dies to buy and what bullet shape would be best overall - RNFP was unanimous across the board from five different sources both here , texas , tennessee , and canada , i have used them almost exclusively [i did get a box of RN as a door prize once and used them - they did not work as well ,] never had a bullet issue with them ever , ive had primer issues but not bullet issues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedediah Westwood Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I use Bang n Clang for my reloads at an OAL of 1.575 (taken from Hornady loading manual). I load 250 gn but they also have 200 gn. Its never failed me. Bang n Clang ships in both 500 and 1000 round bulk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, Jedediah Westwood said: I use Bang n Clang for my reloads at an OAL of 1.575 (taken from Hornady loading manual). I load 250 gn but they also have 200 gn. Its never failed me. Bang n Clang ships in both 500 and 1000 round bulk. From a recent Bang and Clang e-mail: This caster is a sponsor of major SASS matches in the Southwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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