Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Police citizen 'auditors'


Recommended Posts

Don't know how they started but in my Youtube suggested feed now I'm getting videos about Police 'audits' and 'walks of shame' as the youtubers call them when the ploice have to back down when the 'auditor' proves that there amendments are being infringed.

 

Citizens walking the street with AR15's going fishing in Florida (where the uploader states its legal when going fishing) and other citizens photographing from public sidewalks police stations and military installations etc etc etc

 

It's all just to get a rise out of the cops and a rise they do get. Instantly they get asked for ID (which is what they're hoping for) and instantly they refuse stating "I don't have to show ID unless you suspect I've committed a crime, what crime have I committed" and the officer(s) can't answer.  Some cops REALLY turn up the harassment, eventually supervisors come and tell the officers (after a huddle) that they have to release the 'non offenders' because they violated their rights and they were doing nothing wrong. 

Some of these stops are getting these 'auditors' MASSIVE payouts from law suits.

 

What's amazing is just how many of these videos there are, why aren't the cops given a memo about how to handle these 'auditors'?

 

Another question.....the swearing and name calling straight into cops faces by some of these 'auditors' is pretty incredible and very offensive. Seem's like they have the right to do that and can't be arrested for it, the cops really must have to have some superhuman personal restraint not bring out a billy club!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Citizens walking the street with AR15's going fishing in Florida (where the uploader states its legal when going fishing

This is true. Florida law says that you need a permit to carry a gun - EXCEPT when hunting fishing camping or target shooting, or going to and from.

 

So legally the guy can carry a rifle strapped to his back as he goes down the beach to go surf fishing. He's a jerk. He's a king size rectum. But he's legal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Another question.....the swearing and name calling straight into cops faces by some of these 'auditors' is pretty incredible and very offensive.

 

I've not seen any that involve swearing at the LEO. I have seen a few in which the LEO gets very abusive when the peaceful citizen stands his ground and refuses to be intimidated.

 

In most of the open carry videos I've seen the officer is acting on a call by some bozo who panics at the sight of a firearm and called in and whined about someone brandishing, threatening, etc.  People who take the calls need to be trained on how to question callers like that and explain that it's legal and not to call in unless the guy with the firearm is actually threatening people.

 

We need to get back to where people don't panic at anything that vaguely looks like a gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I've not seen any that involve swearing at the LEO. I have seen a few in which the LEO gets very abusive when the peaceful citizen stands his ground and refuses to be intimidated.

 

In most of the open carry videos I've seen the officer is acting on a call by some bozo who panics at the sight of a firearm and called in and whined about someone brandishing, threatening, etc.  People who take the calls need to be trained on how to question callers like that and explain that it's legal and not to call in unless the guy with the firearm is actually threatening people.

 

We need to get back to where people don't panic at anything that vaguely looks like a gun.

 

The guy in Florida with the fishing rod and AR is pretty well known to law enforcement in my area. He created quite a stir when he showed up at Clearwater Beach with a FULLY LOADED AR -15 strapped around his back and a small fishing rod. Clearwater Beach was packed at the time with 1,000's of people, mostly tourists. He does it for the attention but claims it's to promote the 2nd Amendment. Florida does not permit open carry except in a few instances. On the way to go fishing and back is one of the few.

 

These days, in a state that doesn't allow open carry of any firearm (with a few exceptions), the open carry of an AR type firearm at a heavily populated tourist area is going to attract law enforcement and many calls to law enforcement. I don't have a problem with close scrutiny of a guy carrying a fully loaded AR with obvious multiple magazines in pouches in an area where people are crowded together with basically nowhere to seek cover or hide. Ever try to hide at the beach? Didn't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just forwarded a link to some hints on how to NOT lose your job over berating a traffic offender to my whole department.  7 year veteran officer lost it when a motorist didn't stop for his mediocre traffic control techniques.  Then, upon review, he lost his job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve seen a ton of these videos. Police  academies that don’t add a “Photography is not a crime” block of instruction are failing their cadets. 
I have been a police officer for over 30 years and did not realize that there are so many power tripping brothers and sisters on the job. For crying out loud there are cameras EVERYWHERE. If can be seen from public I can be filmed or photographed. Leave these people ALONE. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I’ve seen a ton of these videos. Police  academies that don’t add a “Photography is not a crime” block of instruction are failing their cadets. 

 

As well as, if applicable, "In this state a citizen can legally refuse to show photo ID unless operating a motor vehicle." 

 

30 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I don't have a problem with close scrutiny of a guy carrying a fully loaded AR with obvious multiple magazines in pouches in an area where people are crowded together with basically nowhere to seek cover or hide

 

LEO: Good morning, sir.  We've had lots of calls about someone around here brandishing a firearm so we have to respond.   May I ask your name and why the hardware? Oh, and may I see some ID?

 

Citizen Jerk: Hi, officer.  I'm Jack Hoff, I'm just exercising my constitutionally protected civil rights. Since this state doesn't require that a person show photo ID I respectfully decline to show you my ID.  I hope you have a boring shift.   Good day, sir.

 

LEO: OK, thank you sir.  Have a good day.

 

 

And that should be the end of it.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

He may not have to produce I.D. but I bet he has to produce a fishing license if he's claiming he's fishing.  No fishing license, huh?  Well, well, well....

 

In which case that is what the officer should ask for, not ID.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, the people in these videos - at least all the ones I've seen - are in Florida, and they are saltwater fishing from the pier. No license required.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

What if law enforcement obseves them quietly and the open carrier never goes to the pier to fish and returns to his vehicle?

 

So what?   He changed his mind about fishing at that time.  Is that illegal?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen a bunch of those on Facebook video feed. Some of them show the leo seriously  violating rights and getting pretty brutal with the auditor. It is the same with the auditor gets pretty brutal  with the leo.

 

I am not saying I agree with what they do but those auditor are trying to show how some Leo's are violating your rights and making up their own laws to arrest the auditor.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

As well as, if applicable, "In this state a citizen can legally refuse to show photo ID unless operating a motor vehicle." 

 

 

LEO: Good morning, sir.  We've had lots of calls about someone around here brandishing a firearm so we have to respond.   May I ask your name and why the hardware? Oh, and may I see some ID?

 

Citizen Jerk: Hi, officer.  I'm Jack Hoff, I'm just exercising my constitutionally protected civil rights. Since this state doesn't require that a person show photo ID I respectfully decline to show you my ID.  I hope you have a boring shift.   Good day, sir.

 

LEO: OK, thank you sir.  Have a good day.

 

 

And that should be the end of it.  

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with not showing his ID. I don't have a problem with someone exercising their constitutionally protected rights in a responsible manner. What this guy is doing is not responsible, it's stupid and it's dangerous to him and others around him.

 

If I may pose a question to you Joe...

 

You are in one the parking lots at Clearwater Beach with your wife and young family. You spot a guy getting out of his vehicle, go around to the trunk, retrieve an AR-15, watch him insert a full mag into the AR and strap it on his back. Keep in mind that the State you are in is NOT an open carry State. What are you going to think? What is going to be your reaction?  Are you going to call law enforcement or just ignore him?

 

Until the law is changed and open carry is permitted in Florida, a person doing what I described is going to be carefully scrutinized by law enforcement with good reason. IMO, one of these days, he's going to get himself shot or, at least, have a gun drawn on him by a cop or a "well meaning" person with a CWP. In either case, will the court rule in favor of the cop or person with the CWP? Probably not. This guy is playing a dangerous game and sooner or later, his stupid game is going to have a bad outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

 

 ...... seems to me that "auditor" is a verrrrrry generous term to use when describing these ........... individuals ........  <_<

 

 

 

        what he I said ....... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

You spot a guy getting out of his vehicle, go around to the trunk, retrieve an AR-15, watch him insert a full mag into the AR and strap it on his back. Keep in mind that the State you are in is NOT an open carry State. What are you going to think?

 

Very different circumstances because in FL apparently you are allowed to go armed if going to or from, or while, fishing, whereas in CA I don't think there is the fishing exemption.  I could be wrong on that.  

 

Too little information. Really.  It would depend on too many other things.  How is he acting other than openly breaking a stupid law?  What does he look like?  What does the car look like (new, old, covered with political stickers, current registration tags, etc)?  How is he dressed?  Other than the weapon, is he dressed for the beach, either swimming or shore fishing?  For all I know he is hoping to be arrested so to be a test case against our stupid laws. 

Would I keep an eye on him?  Yes.  Would I take s few photos?  Yes. Would I have my thumb ready to hit the 911 button on my phone?  Yes.  Would I try to keep close to him? Yes.  Heck, as stupid as I am, and as interested in all things related to shooting sports, I might try to engage him in conversation, ask if it was a home built or store bought, what caliber,  etc.  All the usual gun talk.  I wouldn't automatically panic and call police.

 

In the mid '90s I was witness to a beatdown on a street, about half a dozen, ah, how do I put this...gentlemen between 5' 6" and 5'8", medium build, black hair, brown eyes, dark complected, late teen to early twenties, exit a car, early '90s Cadillac low rider, white over tan, Mexican flag painted on the hood, Lady of Guadalupe sticker covering the rear window, and start beating on a guy on crutches*.  Should I automatically assume that any group of people matching that description are thugs like that?

 

*(this was before cell phones were in everyone's hands, so I approached, got the license number, went into the store we were going to, asked to use a phone and called the police, gave description, by which time they were long gone, but I did what I could, I wasn't going to try to wade in on 6:1 odds. Once we got home I had an impressive case of the shakes)

 

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

Until the law is changed and open carry is permitted in Florida, a person doing what I described is going to be carefully scrutinized by law enforcement with good reason.

 

I would say for little reason.  And it should be as I described.  Cop asks a few questions, gets answers that show no ill intent. and both parties on on their way.  We all decry the blatant political use of the FBI.  I can't bring myself to see cops exceeding the letter of the law any differently. 

 

Your state doesn't require you to show ID?  The cop has no call to ask for it except as required to operate a motor vehicle.  You may be required to identify yourself, but that is taken care of by stating your name.  Now, in CA, except for some very limited circumstances, almost any carry is illegal, so an officer will have cause to arrest a person and demand positive photo identification. So, again, very different circumstances than FL where open carry seems to be legal as described in the OP.

Same for police demanding someone show ID, stop filming, etc. on a public sidewalk or from their vehicle.  

As I've said before, I want every block, every impediment, every tiny hold, every check on power allowed by the Constitution and the law against the terrible power of the State that can be brought to bear. If I have to follow every jot and tittle of the law, then, by damn, so does the State and its agents.  Otherwise our republic is just a sham.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

 

 ...... seems to me that "auditor" is a verrrrrry generous term to use when describing these ........... individuals ........  <_<

 

They would, in my opinion, best be described as self-important idiots.  Or, more charitably, as agents provocateurs. Which still doesn't give police the power to demand more than the letter of the law.   Depending on the State, you may not have to produce identification.  You can't be prevented from filming from inside your car or on a public sidewalk or many other public places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

This Sargent is just brilliant - 

 

 

 

So............we get to watch this jackass walk around for five or more minutes before anything happens?

 

Bull!

 

Why doesn't someone follow HIM around and annoy the bejabbers out of him, maybe even into his work place and OUTSIDE his home (without trespassing)?

 

These people are simply wasting everyone's time (not illegal) and proving beyond any doubt that they are jerks.

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and watch him walk in front of a moving car while he's playing with his camera.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Does a fishing line with a hook on it rolled up in your pocket while you're walking 10 miles away from the pier qualify as on the way to go fishing?

 

 

Why wouldn't it?   

OHMYGAWD!!!!!  He is peacefully walking around with a GUN!!!!!!  CALL OUT THE FEDS!!!!!  SCRAMBLE ALL THE SWAT SQUADS IN 50 MILES!!!!!  PANIC!!!  PANIC!!!! PANIC!!!!!

 



OK, for a counter, and equally idiotic "whaddabout"

Whaddabout if he is walking the 50 miles on his way to the pier with a spool of line and a package of #3 hooks in his pocket, his AR on his back and 6,000 rounds of ammunition in loaded magazines, and he sees a guy with a shotgun shooting the snot out of a school bus filled with special needs kids and he engages and neutralizes the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting.

You know, just like the wannabees with their CCW, 2 concealed pistols, 5 magazines for each, and a little revolver in an ankle holster dream about.

 

Funny how so many people get so upset about others peacefully exercising the same rights they claim to support.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO BASH ALL COPS WITH ANYTHING I SAY HERE

Some of you do not understand, they are exercising  their rights. There is no right to privacy in public, people cry you can't take my pic, if you are in public yes I can. SOME Leo's over step their authority, AGAIN NOT TRYING TO BASH LEOS HERE, by demanding thing like ID or want to search you or detain you because they have a badge. Some leo do not understand the constitution, so they will willingly violate your rights and the constitution. Those are the ones who cost law suits and/or get fired

I know I do not want ANY GOVERMENT AGENCY to violate my rights

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of these guys interact with the cops poorly, even though what they are doing is legal.

I watch a lot of these and here is common rights violations the cops do;

1. They think ID is required to be given just because they say so. Terry V. Ohio now requires an actual RAS to ask for ID. And some states you don't have to show ID unless you are "lawfully arrested.

2. Cops think police, fire, and court house properties are "private properties. They are not.

Anyone can video/photo anything they can see if they are on "public property. 

3. Cops think they can trespass you fro public property for no reason. And they think its criminal trespass if you don't leave upon the first ask.

4. Homeland Security says anyone can photo/video Federal properties including the inside of public spaces.

5. Passengers in vehicles do not have to provide ID.

6. Anyone can say anything to cops as long as it doesn't threaten violence.

7. Cops get mad when people invoke their 1st, 4th, 5ht, and 6th amendment rights. They are under the impression that citizens " must" answer their questions. Some think the 5th amendment doesn't apply until you're arrested.

The auditors that do this with some element of respect and reasonable interaction are informing people of their rights. And many times the cops learn something.

Body cameras have become the best tools for defense and criminal complaints for citizens.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Some of these guys interact with the cops poorly, even though what they are doing is legal.

I watch a lot of these and here is common rights violations the cops do;

1. They think ID is required to be given just because they say so. Terry V. Ohio now requires an actual RAS to ask for ID. And some states you don't have to show ID unless you are "lawfully arrested.

2. Cops think police, fire, and court house properties are "private properties. They are not.

Anyone can video/photo anything they can see if they are on "public property. 

3. Cops think they can trespass you fro public property for no reason. And they think its criminal trespass if you don't leave upon the first ask.

4. Homeland Security says anyone can photo/video Federal properties including the inside of public spaces.

5. Passengers in vehicles do not have to provide ID.

6. Anyone can say anything to cops as long as it doesn't threaten violence.

7. Cops get mad when people invoke their 1st, 4th, 5ht, and 6th amendment rights. They are under the impression that citizens " must" answer their questions. Some think the 5th amendment doesn't apply until you're arrested.

The auditors that do this with some element of respect and reasonable interaction are informing people of their rights. And many times the cops learn something.

Body cameras have become the best tools for defense and criminal complaints for citizens.

 

You said that a lot better then I could have

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Shoer 27979 said:

I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO BASH ALL COPS WITH ANYTHING I SAY HERE

Some of you do not understand, they are exercising  their rights. There is no right to privacy in public, people cry you can't take my pic, if you are in public yes I can. SOME Leo's over step their authority, AGAIN NOT TRYING TO BASH LEOS HERE, by demanding thing like ID or want to search you or detain you because they have a badge. Some leo do not understand the constitution, so they will willingly violate your rights and the constitution. Those are the ones who cost law suits and/or get fired

I know I do not want ANY GOVERMENT AGENCY to violate my rights

Take that up with the IRS and see where it gets you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

Why wouldn't it?   

OHMYGAWD!!!!!  He is peacefully walking around with a GUN!!!!!!  CALL OUT THE FEDS!!!!!  SCRAMBLE ALL THE SWAT SQUADS IN 50 MILES!!!!!  PANIC!!!  PANIC!!!! PANIC!!!!!

 



OK, for a counter, and equally idiotic "whaddabout"

Whaddabout if he is walking the 50 miles on his way to the pier with a spool of line and a package of #3 hooks in his pocket, his AR on his back and 6,000 rounds of ammunition in loaded magazines, and he sees a guy with a shotgun shooting the snot out of a school bus filled with special needs kids and he engages and neutralizes the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting.

You know, just like the wannabees with their CCW, 2 concealed pistols, 5 magazines for each, and a little revolver in an ankle holster dream about.

 

Funny how so many people get so upset about others peacefully exercising the same rights they claim to 

 

If open carry is legal that's fine. I have no problem with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Take that up with the IRS and see where it gets you.

Ya I know the issue does as they want.

That is all I will say about ALL the alphabet  agencys

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

So............we get to watch this jackass walk around for five or more minutes before anything happens?

 

Bull!

 

Why doesn't someone follow HIM around and annoy the bejabbers out of him, maybe even into his work place and OUTSIDE his home (without trespassing)?

 

These people are simply wasting everyone's time (not illegal) and proving beyond any doubt that they are jerks.

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and watch him walk in front of a moving car while he's playing with his camera.

 

T'was the Sergeant that was the hero of the vid, but the auditor did a Stirling job.....the other two cops and the postal workers.....not so much. One cop should be dismissed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Take that up with the IRS and see where it gets you.

 

That's his point.  ALL agents of the State should and MUST be held to the strict limits of the Constitution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.