Picked up a Victory Model

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Well, I picked up a WWII era S&W Victory Model this past weekend.  I swear, it looks brand new!  When I compared it to my S&W Model 1899, I can say with a certainty that it's obvious that they are the same pistol.   Internally, the only difference I could see was the hammer return spring.

But what is exciting is that this pistol fills the last real "gap" in my collection of US Military (cartridge firing) sidearms.  I've now got one of everything from a converted 1860 Colt to a Sig Saur M17.  Okay, I didn't bother with super limited issue or experimental guns, just regular issue stuff that was purchased in great numbers.   Most of the items are US GI, three are "commercial versions" of the military pistol, and a few more are modern replicas, but the collection is complete!  And according to my nephew who is active duty USMC, who has been able to compare my stuff to things he saw in a display of historic Marine Corps arms, a lot of my things are in better shape than the stuff they have on display.  I attribute that to luck more than anything else. 

 

Anyway, it's been a long journey to create this collection, one that started with my 1913 vintage 1911 that I bought soon after my 21st birthday.  In 2013, to honor that pistol, I used it at the Wild Bunch match at EoT.  When they asked me, "Modern or Traditional?" I just looked at the pistol and said, "Well, it is a hundred years old..."
(Not a single malfunction, in case you are wondering.)

The single actions I have used in several CAS events, especially if there's some sort of theme to honor those in the service or veterans.  Even when using a replica, there is something about using a "military revolver" that has a feeling of nostalgia to it that generic pistols don't have.   I think it's the history factor.  You are using something just like what a soldier would have used "back in the day," and maybe even something that WAS used back in the day if you are lucky enough to have genuine GI.   Possibly even in combat.  It's kind of neat to have the connection with someone who once put his life on the line. 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Congratulations.  If you feel like it, some pics would be nice to see.

[Pat Riot]

18 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Congratulations.  If you feel like it, some pics would be nice to see.

Ditto. 

 

 

I have a Hong Kong C&E model 10 that gets mistaken for a Victory model nearly every time I go to the range somewhere and they ask to see my guns. It’s a model 10-7 but it has the lanyard ring. I dressed it up with Altamont “service panels”. It also now wears a BK grip adapter (not shown in this photo)
 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Ditto. 

 

 

I have a Hong Kong C&E model 10 that gets mistaken for a Victory model nearly every time I go to the range somewhere and they ask to see my guns. It’s a model 10-7 but it has the lanyard ring. I dressed it up with Altamont “service panels”. It also now wears a BK grip adapter (not shown in this photo)
 

Awesome!!! Great looking revolver!

[Alpo]

I HAD a Victory.

 

But, I also have a granddaughter.

 

 

She has a Victory. She said she liked the grips.

[largo casey #19191]

I have a mod 10 ?? in 32/20

                                                 Largo

[Alpo]

If you have a 32/20, you have a Military and Police model.

 

They did not start giving them model numbers until 1957, and yes, the Military and Police model became the Model 10. But only since 1957. Prior to 1957 they were simply an M&P. And they only made them in 32/20 in the 1920s and early 1930s.

 

And you thought people that said, "that's not a buffalo, that's a bison" were pedantic.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

The Victory models are cool revolvers. I scratched that itch as well and found one in great shape for a good price (on Gunbroker, no less) a couple of years ago. Pretty accurate too. While some of these were shipped to the Navy or Coast Guard, most were procured by the Defense Supply Corporation (DSC) to be issued out to factories and such for their wartime security needs. Mine is apparently a DSC gun but i haven't lettered it yet.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Lettering this collection will probably be my next step.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:20 AM, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Congratulations.  If you feel like it, some pics would be nice to see.

 

Ask, and ye shall receive. 

Rather than try to put everything in one picture, I broke it up. 

 

We'll start out with guns that are relevant to our game.   

 

These are all cap and ball conversions.  Based on my (admittedly limited) research, I can only find evidence the army actually converted one of these, but all four were issued in their cap and ball configuration.  From top to bottom, Uberti Walker .45 Colt; Colt Dragoon (Second Generation) .45 Colt; Pietta 1858 .45 Colt; Pietta 1860 .45 Colt.  According to my research, the Army converted about 1000 of 1860's to the .44 Colt cartridge.  I could find no records of the other three being "officially" converted, but who knows what individual solders who happened to have had one may have done.

 

From top to bottom, Uberti Model 3 American.  Originals were in .44 S&W American, this reproduction is in .45 Colt.   S&W Performance Center Schofield, .45 S&W caliber.  Armi San Marco Single Action Army .45 Colt, set up to milspec configuration.

 

For the sake of convenience, I refer to this picture as "Spanish American War and it's Aftermath Guns."  By aftermath I mean most notably the Philippine Insurrection and other "small" things that came out of the Spanish American War.   From top to bottom, Colt 1894 DA .38 Revolver in .38 Long Colt (USGI); S&W Model 1899, 38 Long Colt (USGI); Colt 1902 "Alaskan" in .45 Colt (USGI) and the Colt 1909, .45 Colt, (USGI)

These guns are tangentially related to CAS, if not specifically SASS or Wild Bunch.

 

 

World War I era pistols.  Again, tangentially related to our game via Wild Bunch and similar games.  From top to bottom, Colt 1911, .45 ACP (Made in 1913!) (USGI).  Colt 1917, .45 ACP, (USGI)  S&W 1917, .45 ACP (Brazilian Surplus).

 

 

WWII Era guns are a Remington 1911A1, .45 ACP (USGI).  Colt Pocket Hammerless .32ACP.  Commercial version.  Came with hard black rubber grips, that I still have, but I put on these wooden ones to make it more military looking.  S&W Victory model, .38 Special, USGI.  This one is the most recent acquisition that I referred to when I started this thread.  As you can see, it looks almost brand new.   Getting farther away from our game with these guns.

 

 

And these are the "modern" military sidearms.  Top to bottom, Berretta 92FS 9mm.  Sig Saur M17, 9mm.  Both are commercial versions of the USGI pistol.

All in all, not a bad collection that took me many years to collect.

Finally, since someone mentioned a "Model 10" in .32-20, I thought I also share this...

 

 All are S&W's.  Top to bottom, Model 1899, .38 Long Colt; Victory Model, 38 Special, (Both USGI).  M&P, .32-20.   Victory Model .38 S&W Australian Surplus. Pre-Victory Model .38 S&W, Canadian Surplus.

I have read that some US soldiers may have been issued .38 S&W chambered guns based on very specific assignments, but I don't know too much about that.  These two were clearly not used for that.

Hope you enjoyed the show.

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:26 AM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well, I picked up a WWII era S&W Victory Model this past weekend.  I swear, it looks brand new!  When I compared it to my S&W Model 1899, I can say with a certainty that it's obvious that they are the same pistol.   Internally, the only difference I could see was the hammer return spring.

But what is exciting is that this pistol fills the last real "gap" in my collection of US Military (cartridge firing) sidearms.  I've now got one of everything from a converted 1860 Colt to a Sig Saur M17.  Okay, I didn't bother with super limited issue or experimental guns, just regular issue stuff that was purchased in great numbers.   Most of the items are US GI, three are "commercial versions" of the military pistol, and a few more are modern replicas, but the collection is complete!  And according to my nephew who is active duty USMC, who has been able to compare my stuff to things he saw in a display of historic Marine Corps arms, a lot of my things are in better shape than the stuff they have on display.  I attribute that to luck more than anything else. 

 

Anyway, it's been a long journey to create this collection, one that started with my 1913 vintage 1911 that I bought soon after my 21st birthday.  In 2013, to honor that pistol, I used it at the Wild Bunch match at EoT.  When they asked me, "Modern or Traditional?" I just looked at the pistol and said, "Well, it is a hundred years old..."
(Not a single malfunction, in case you are wondering.)

The single actions I have used in several CAS events, especially if there's some sort of theme to honor those in the service or veterans.  Even when using a replica, there is something about using a "military revolver" that has a feeling of nostalgia to it that generic pistols don't have.   I think it's the history factor.  You are using something just like what a soldier would have used "back in the day," and maybe even something that WAS used back in the day if you are lucky enough to have genuine GI.   Possibly even in combat.  It's kind of neat to have the connection with someone who once put his life on the line. 

Is your new Victory model in .38 special, or .38 S&W caliber? 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

10 minutes ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

Is your new Victory model in .38 special, or .38 S&W caliber? 

 

The new one is .38 Special.

 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

The Victory Model and the WWI .45ACP are both outstanding.  Nice collection.

[Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L]

Marine Corps is using Sig Sauer model 18 now. Guess you’ll need to add another to collection. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

15 minutes ago, Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L said:

Marine Corps is using Sig Sauer model 18 now. Guess you’ll need to add another to collection. 

That and the M1911A2, er no.   They called it the M45A1 for some reason.

[Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L]

Model 18 has a shorter barrel than model 17 only difference between the two. You have a good collection going there. 

[Warden Callaway]

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Don't forget an HK MK23... the most ridiculous handgun ever fielded by the US military since the 1847 Walker.

.

[Alpo]

I found reference to an HK MK 23, and a SIG MK 25, but not an HK MK 25.

 

Are you sure of your nomenclature?

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Sorry... brain fart on my part.

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

Delighted yours rounds out an excellent collection!
Acquired one that saw service in Britain, the Brits converted it for shipping back across the salt water: shortened the barrel by not much and installed a ramp front, then bored out the cylinder to accommodate the longer .38 Special.
I'm told they were popular "back when" because the guns and the ammo were both cheap, if you split cases oh well, nobody reloaded much in those days.

Mine is fed nothing but .38 Smith & Wesson: I tried loading hollow base wadcutters, but I loaded them deep in the case, they gripped the sidewalls, jacked the pressure and cases didn't want to eject peacefully, switched to the correct bore diameter RNLs and now brass ejects like it should.

Yours looks considerably better than mine!

[Alpo]

4 hours ago, Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103 said:

Mine is fed nothing but .38 Smith & Wesson: I tried loading hollow base wadcutters,

I've got a couple or three 38 Smith & Wessons, and I loveLOAD them with hollow-base wadcutters.

 

But I don't seat them deep, like you normally would a wadcutter. I seat them to normal length. I use data for loading 150 grain bullet while loading these 148 grain bullets. Works fine.

 

[Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923]

This past year I stumbled across a 6" .32-20 and snapped it up.

 

Then, like often happens in the gun world, I promptly located a 5" .32-20.

 

 

[Tom Bullweed]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:32 PM, Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L said:

Model 18 has a shorter barrel than model 17 only difference between the two. You have a good collection going there. 

The model 18 has an integral front sight (mine is below). The Model has interchangeable inserts and/or a screw-on front sight.

 

H.K.- very nice Alaskan.  I have only seen two of these fairly rare revolvers.

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

I've got a couple or three 38 Smith & Wessons, and I love them with hollow-base wadcutters.

 

But I don't seat them deep, like you normally would a wadcutter. I seat them to normal length. I use data for loading 150 grain bullet while loading these 148 grain bullets. Works fine.

 

My entire mistake was loading them too deep.
Your procedure proves yet again you're younger, smarter and better lookin' than me (not necessarily in that order! )

[Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L]

5 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said:

The model 18 has an integral front sight (mine is below). The Model has interchangeable inserts and/or a screw-on front sight.

 

H.K.- very nice Alaskan.  I have only seen two of these fairly rare revolvers.

I was talking about the Sig Sauer model 18. 

[Pat Riot]

Gun Porn…I love it so 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:15 PM, Tom Bullweed said:

The model 18 has an integral front sight (mine is below). The Model has interchangeable inserts and/or a screw-on front sight.

 

H.K.- very nice Alaskan.  I have only seen two of these fairly rare revolvers.

 

 

The history of the the S&W 1899/M&P/Pre-Victory/Victory Model/Model 10 is quite fascinating.  When you consider that with only some minor internal differences, the 1899 and the Victory model are essentially the same gun, (Akin to a 1911 and a 1911A1) and that the last of the Victories were only withdrawn from service in 1986 when the M9 replaced "everything," you realize that is was America's longest serving sidearm.  Different sources will tell you that these pistols were off and on purchased by the army at different times to provide a need for pistols that whatever the "main official" sidearm at the time was not plentiful enough to meet the need.  My 1899 is indeed in .38 Long Colt, but it wasn't long into the Span Am Era (1898-1910) when the Army bought some 1899's in .38 Special when the Long Colt round was found wanting.   WWII era Victory models are probably the most well known, but I have read in at least one source that a whole bunch were purchased for use in WWI.  And then there are the so called "Pre-Victory" models; pistols made during WWII, sold via Lend Lease to the British Commonwealth, and perhaps USGI use as well, just without a V in front of the serial number.   Not sure exactly when they started adding that.  They also tended to be blued, not parkerized.

As you can see above, I have both a Pre-Victory, and a Victory that were Lend Leased to the Commonwealth.  Both are of course in .38 S&W, or more precisely, .38-200, which was essentially a hot rodded version of the S&W round originally designed for use in Webley and Enfield top break revolvers.   
 

While I do reload .38 S&W, I have not been bothered to try and reload the hotter .38-200, simply because I own a lot of .38 S&W guns, some of which are rather old, and I don't want to risk a mistake.  .38 S&W has long been a favorite caliber of mine, and finding a pair of "full size" American made revolvers for it was just too good to pass up.

As far as the Alaskan goes, it is indeed a fascinating pistol.   I'd guess most of us know that "Alaskan" is a misnomer, and that these pistols were actually earmarked for use in the Philippines during the problems there after the Spanish American War.   Essentially a DA Peacemaker, the military version was greatly modified from the basic 1878 that it is based upon.   Fun gun to shoot.  But I have not found anything definitive one way or the other as to if they are safe for smokeless.  My gut tells me that like the smaller 1877, they aren't, so I stay there, but I just don't know.