Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 HEY BWJ, when are you gonna post a pix of your JEDI GF of the YEAR 2021 belt buckle? Surely you gonna have one made to your preferred design. I have mine. Korupt Karl has his. Creeker has his. TN Tombstone has his. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Can I just say that this is the last time that I will post on page 6 of this thread? Until page 7, yes. I'm just here for the learning. And to get to page 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 If I may interject, with the caveat that I didn't write the instructions, nor a member of the host club... but as an experienced (albeit slow, deliberate shooter), an opinion, and ask a question. I wasn't there and don't have a dog in this hunt. In looking at pics of stage 4, the layout, it appears as though at least part of the train prop might have been at risk if targets were engaged from multiple locations w/shotgun. Ergo that portion of the instruction. Those that were there, please correct me if that assumption is false. Would it have made a difference on the "duelist" instruction had been applied to all that either choose or are required to shoot duelist, vs the category as interpreted? (Still totally unnecessary, IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: HEY BWJ, when are you gonna post a pix of your JEDI GF of the YEAR 2021 belt buckle? Far be if for me to sidetrack a thread, but, I'll leave you a link My wife and son did well! I am still struggling to process it all, and that was almost 6 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Our stage writers for Whiskey Row Gunslingers in Prescott, AZ, mainly Turquoise Bill, only contacts a very few experienced SASS members to critique the stages before our monthly match to avoid pitfalls. We even have someone who is a PHD English Major who makes sure everything is spelled correctly and properly hyphonated. Of course that's not me for the hyphonating. Having multiple eyes reviewing the stages before they go to print helps avoid problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 This is the stage in real time. Thanks to Jokers Wild and Photo Shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 13 minutes ago, Griff said: If I may interject, with the caveat that I didn't write the instructions, nor a member of the host club... but as an experienced (albeit slow, deliberate shooter), an opinion, and ask a question. I wasn't there and don't have a dog in this hunt. In looking at pics of stage 4, the layout, it appears as though at least part of the train prop might habe been at risk if targets were engaged from multiple locations. Ergo that portion of the instruction. Those that were there, please correct me if that assumption is false. There were multiple stages with those instructions. All of them you had to fire the pistols from the box, you couldn't shoot them from different locations anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hendo said: This is the stage in real time. Thanks to Jokers Wild and Photo Shooter. That is one of them. The other with those instructions is stage 11 although we were told that on stages that didn't have those directions also which makes me thinks it's a club or regional thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: There were multiple stages with those instructions. All of them you had to fire the pistols from the box, you couldn't shoot them from different locations anyway. Sorry, TW, I was thinking about the shotgun from multiple locations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Griff said: Sorry, TW, I was thinking about the shotgun from multiple locations... Oh, I gotcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 20 hours ago, Tennessee williams said: Oh, I gotcha! Sooooo... So you think we'll get an answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 58 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Sooooo... So you think we'll get an answer? Not for at least 3 more pages Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: Not for at least 3 more pages Randy Or until Phantom "retires" from the forum > - still checking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. Howdy BB. Do you remember if that rule was specific for 'Duelist' only? (p.s. - TN Williams bragged to me about meeting you.) ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. Funny you should mention that. Another shooter and I were having this discussion on a phone call the other day. We seem to remember something like that, too, and also seemed to remember the, "you must shoot all shotgun from where first one engaged" from what we thought we remembered was a previous Winter Range. But then again, our memories aren't as good as they used to be. And we very well could be wrong. Or misremembering it from some other match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 55 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. Sounds like range specific rule to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. I had wondered if this had been a Winter Range rule of some kind. I think if they hadn’t singled out duelist this thread would never have been started. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Howdy BB. Do you remember if that rule was specific for 'Duelist' only? (p.s. - TN Williams bragged to me about meeting you.) ..........Widder I believe so. While I do find holding of shotgun while shooting a pistol sometimes an advantage, it most likely in a split pistol type scenario. (pistol shotgun pistol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 55 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Funny you should mention that. Another shooter and I were having this discussion on a phone call the other day. We seem to remember something like that, too, and also seemed to remember the, "you must shoot all shotgun from where first one engaged" from what we thought we remembered was a previous Winter Range. But then again, our memories aren't as good as they used to be. And we very well could be wrong. Or misremembering it from some other match. Just my opinion of course but it seems to me like you shouldn't have range specific rules in even a state championship match. Sometimes people not only come from the other side of the continent but another country altogether. How are they supposed to prepare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Sooooo... So you think we'll get an answer? May be getting down to the nitty gritty anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: I had wondered if this had been a Winter Range rule of some kind. I think if they hadn’t singled out duelist this thread would never have been started. Randy I think the thought even hit me when first saw this in stages there, but actually to be competitive, a is duelist perhaps the only shooter who might find it an advantage. Even then only when pistols were split. Actually with split pistols gunfighter might give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 38 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: Sounds like range specific rule to me. Pretty much. Now the shooting shotgun makeups from where originally engaged is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 23 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: Just my opinion of course but it seems to me like you shouldn't have range specific rules in even a state championship match. I will respectfully disagree. There are some local range rules that a range must have in order to stay open. For instance, a penalty for a round over the berm is a range rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: As I remember, the rule of shotgun butt to table/box was in place in 2019 (Winter Range) and perhaps year before. A bit out of ordinary but not new to that range. I shot both EOT and Winter Range in 2018 and do not remember that rule or the shoot all shotgun from where you start shooting them that year. Did not shoot WR in 2019 so I can't speak to that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: I will respectfully disagree. There are some local range rules that a range must have in order to stay open. For instance, a penalty for a round over the berm is a range rule. No, I totally agree on the berm thing and stuff to stay open. However, I think these are different. They are more akin to the plant and poke rule. Rules like that shouldn't be in a championship match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 30 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: I think the thought even hit me when first saw this in stages there, but actually to be competitive, a is duelist perhaps the only shooter who might find it an advantage. Even then only when pistols were split. Actually with split pistols gunfighter might give it a try. I know it did not apply on this stage, but as a gunfighter, one of my personal favorite transitions deals with something similar to this... One of the transitions I practice is shooting a long gun at point A and carrying it to point B. While in motion to point B, I will draw one revolver. I'll try to get one shot off with that revolver while staging the long gun. I'll then get a second shot off with that first revolver as I'm drawing the second. It doesn't always work that smooth, but it is something I practice as a gunfighter. I know not all gunfighters will appreciate that, or even like that transition, so I'm now putting on my flame proof underwear. Y'all can flame on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: No, I totally agree on the berm thing and stuff to stay open. However, I think these are different. They are more akin to the plant and poke rule. Rules like that shouldn't be in a championship match. Another one that you used to see a lot, but not much anymore is the "barrel must extend fully beyond the window or bars or whatever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: I know it did not apply on this stage, but as a gunfighter, one of my personal favorite transitions deals with something similar to this... One of the transitions I practice is shooting a long gun at point A and carrying it to point B. While in motion to point B, I will draw one revolver. I'll try to get one shot off with that revolver while staging the long gun. I'll then get a second shot off with that first revolver as I'm drawing the second. It doesn't always work that smooth, but it is something I practice as a gunfighter. I know not all gunfighters will appreciate that, or even like that transition, so I'm now putting on my flame proof underwear. Y'all can flame on. No flaming allowed. Until page 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: I had wondered if this had been a Winter Range rule of some kind. I think if they hadn’t singled out duelist this thread would never have been started. Randy Randy: I didn't want to comment without a review. I have the shooter books for Winter Range back to 2005 (my second WR) - In 2005,2006,2007,2008 there were instructions on one or two stages where GF'swere to shoot as double duelist. In 2008 they have a couple that mention GF and B-Western having both pistols at the ready on a stage, In 2009 - buckaroo's and buckarettes are mentioned as not having to knock down the KD targets. Those years also had more verbose instructions. 2010 - no category specific instructions 2011 - cap and ball mentioned on a reload stage - buckaroos and buckarettes mentioned about KD and flying target 2012 -buckaroos and buckarettes mentioned about flying target 2013 -buckaroos and buckarettes mentioned about KD and flying target 2014 -buckaroos and buckarettes mentioned about KD 2015 -buckaroos and buckarettes mentioned about KD 2016-none 2017-none 2018-none 2019- duelists mention as to holding with butt stock touching box on one stage. 2020 - duelists mention as to holding with butt stock touching box on two stages. There weren't any complaints about those last two but again I don't know the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 49 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: I know it did not apply on this stage, but as a gunfighter, one of my personal favorite transitions deals with something similar to this... One of the transitions I practice is shooting a long gun at point A and carrying it to point B. While in motion to point B, I will draw one revolver. I'll try to get one shot off with that revolver while staging the long gun. I'll then get a second shot off with that first revolver as I'm drawing the second. It doesn't always work that smooth, but it is something I practice as a gunfighter. I know not all gunfighters will appreciate that, or even like that transition, so I'm now putting on my flame proof underwear. Y'all can flame on. That is the way I practice it also. You'd have been able to do that in this match. I would not have. Even if the directions had said anybody shooting duelist STYLE it would throw those shooters off thats not a regular shooter there coming out of the blue like that. Thats the problem with rules that are club or regional specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 8:42 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Soooo... What exactly was the purpose of the "Butt" requirement...? Phantom I received an answer and will type it verbatim. "We should’ve written “duelist style“. The reason we do that is to make sure that everybody gets to the same point or location on the stage. The rules allow duelist to hold the shotgun say after using it and moving and with the other hand to shoot the revolver. If the stage description simply says “make safe” they can finish the shotgun not move forward and just shoot the revolvers from that position. This is clearly a time advantage so we make everybody move to the same location, as a two handed shooter would have to make the shotgun safe at the box. This is done to keep a level playing field" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 This is about to get interesting. Hold on a second and let me get my popcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 34 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: This is about to get interesting. Hold on a second and let me get my popcorn JOE, thanks for sticking with it and posting a reply. BWJ, I'll bring the butter. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Hence why Stage writing is an art... And some suck at it. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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