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A conversation on a different web sight whose name (face) shall not (book) be mentioned got me wondering about target focus. When I was first learning cowboy shooting Madd Mike would have me run first shot drills with little stick em dots on the center of the target. He said this would train your eye to focus on the center and thus reduce misses. In Brian Enos’ book he says when you’re really in the zone your field of view opens up and you see everything.

 

These two concepts seem to contradict each other. Do they? If so, which works for you and why? 

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Both are somewhat correct.  Your "focus" should actually be on your sights.  Your "awareness" should be on the target array.  That results on the sights being in sharp focus and the actual target being somewhat "fuzzy."  

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32 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Both are somewhat correct.  Your "focus" should actually be on your sights.  Your "awareness" should be on the target array.  That results on the sights being in sharp focus and the actual target being somewhat "fuzzy."  

I feel this 100%

I realize when I miss I have focused on the target and not my site.

(Yes, I am that slow)

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45 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Both are somewhat correct.  Your "focus" should actually be on your sights.  Your "awareness" should be on the target array.  That results on the sights being in sharp focus and the actual target being somewhat "fuzzy."  

 

A topic that is much more easily discussed at the range where experiments can take place.  This is part what Enos was driving at.  If you don't have clear focus on the front sight, you can't shoot precisely.  If you focus on the target, the sights are blurry.  But the key is really awareness.

 

For example, if your vision is focused on the front sight, you should be aware of the target you're engaging, and the next target, and possibly the one after that.  Note, one of those targets may be your transition gun or a place to move to. 

 

If your vision is focused on the target, you should be aware of your sights and how they are aligned, and the next target, and possibly the one after that.  Note, one of those targets may be your transition gun or a place to move to. 

 

For me, I find the attention I need to place on sight picture and front sight is determined by how I'm feeling that day, by the size of the target (or technical difficulty of the shot), trigger pull, follow through.  Really big, really close requires more attention on the target, even if my vision is focused on the sights. 

 

Did all of that make sense? 

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2 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

A topic that is much more easily discussed at the range where experiments can take place.  This is part what Enos was driving at.  If you don't have clear focus on the front sight, you can't shoot precisely.  If you focus on the target, the sights are blurry.  But the key is really awareness.

 

For example, if your vision is focused on the front sight, you should be aware of the target you're engaging, and the next target, and possibly the one after that.  Note, one of those targets may be your transition gun or a place to move to. 

 

If your vision is focused on the target, you should be aware of your sights and how they are aligned, and the next target, and possibly the one after that.  Note, one of those targets may be your transition gun or a place to move to. 

 

For me, I find the attention I need to place on sight picture and front sight is determined by how I'm feeling that day, by the size of the target (or technical difficulty of the shot), trigger pull, follow through.  Really big, really close requires more attention on the target, even if my vision is focused on the sights. 

 

Did all of that make sense? 

 

Makes sense but yes, probably better understood at the range.

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1 hour ago, Dan Druff said:

The Corps taught me to focus on the front sight. It has served me well.

Much different environment...one has to adapt to the situation and SASS/CAS is not the military.

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

I feel this 100%

I realize when I miss I have focused on the target and not my site.

(Yes, I am that slow)

Howdy, Lil' Rob!

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Much different environment...one has to adapt to the situation and SASS/CAS is not the military.

 

Phantom

You're absolutely right, it's not the military. However, when I miss a target while shooting a CAS match, 100% of the time it's because I lost my proper sight picture and focused on the targets instead. If I slow down, and keep focused on the front sight, I make all of the shots.

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11 minutes ago, Dan Druff said:

You're absolutely right, it's not the military. However, when I miss a target while shooting a CAS match, 100% of the time it's because I lost my proper sight picture and focused on the targets instead. If I slow down, and keep focused on the front sight, I make all of the shots.

If there was no timer...in other words if one slows down, everyone would shoot clean 100% of the time.

 

Misses at speed (which is part of this game), can be attributed to a heck of a lot more than "Sight Picture".

 

Tell me you need a Sight Picture on a 36" Square target at 4 yards...ya don't.

 

Apples and Oranges...

 

Phantom

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31 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

If there was no timer...in other words if one slows down, everyone would shoot clean 100% of the time.

 

Misses at speed (which is part of this game), can be attributed to a heck of a lot more than "Sight Picture".

 

Tell me you need a Sight Picture on a 36" Square target at 4 yards...ya don't.

 

Apples and Oranges...

 

Phantom

Ok, you win.

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Just now, Dan Druff said:

Ok, you win.

I see...that's how some folks see this...as some sort of competition rather than a chance to become educated and better one's performance...

 

Whatever, fine, you lose.

 

Ugh...and OY!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I see...that's how some folks see this...as some sort of competition rather than a chance to become educated and better one's performance...

 

Whatever, fine, you lose.

 

Ugh...and OY!!!!

You play the game your way, I'll play my way. No reason to argue about it. If we ever cross paths at a match, I'll still shake your hand and offer to buy you a drink.

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6 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Both are somewhat correct.  Your "focus" should actually be on your sights.  Your "awareness" should be on the target array.  That results on the sights being in sharp focus and the actual target being somewhat "fuzzy."  

Exactly the way I was taught in the USN in the forties using the 30-M1.

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Just now, Dan Druff said:

You play the game your way, I'll play my way. No reason to argue about it. If we ever cross paths at a match, I'll still shake your hand and offer to buy you a drink.

Not a problem, I'll buy the second round.

 

My comments were based on this being a discussion on performance. Whenever I see Brian Enos name mentioned I'm automatically out in the performance mode.

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 said:

 

 

Great video.   Also applicable to cocking the hammer in our game, especially if you sliphammer.

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7 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

When I was first learning cowboy shooting Madd Mike would have me run first shot drills with little stick em dots on the center of the target.

 

I was taught the same thing (without the dots).  LOOK at the center of the target.  When your sights align break the shot.  Then LOOK at the center of the next target (don't keep looking at the target you just shot to see if you hit it, that's over and done with), when your sights align break the shot.

 

7 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

In Brian Enos’ book he says when you’re really in the zone your field of view opens up and you see everything.

 

I'll agree.. Somewhat.  When you're in the zone... situationally aware... everything just flows.  And you do what I said above w/o thinking.  

 

But I don't know Enos, nor am I at his level.  Maybe he goes into a trance.

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If you're looking at the CENTER of the target - your shots will go to the center of the target.

But with the distances to most of our targets and the size of most of our targets - if all you're using is the center - that is an awful lot of steel going to waste.

 

I don't aim at centers - I shoot edges.

As soon as I see the front sight break the edge of the steel - I try to pull the trigger.

Doesn't always work - but when it does; it allows the firearm to "flow" from target to target instead of

Move the gun - stop the gun - fire. 

Move the gun - stop the gun - fire again.

 

 

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When I first started shooting IPSC in 1980, we had Ray Chapman (1st IPSC World Champion) come to our range for instruction. He had us shooting dot's from the holster, 1 shot at a time. Later we had John Shaw and J. Michael Plaxco. They all used some variation of this.

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1 minute ago, Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 said:

When I first started shooting IPSC in 1980, we had Ray Chapman (1st IPSC World Champion) come to our range for instruction. He had us shooting dot's from the holster, 1 shot at a time. Later we had John Shaw and J. Michael Plaxco. They all used some variation of this.

 

Fundamentals are critical.  Even if it's so that you can consider when to ignore them. 

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Back in 1972 during my first firearms class, I was taught to shoot handguns instinctively for combat and without sights up to 7 yds.  Fast forward to today, I still shoot instinctively up to 15 yds simply by focusing on the target. Sights are really overrated up close like we shoot :D:P.

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If the front sight is not on the target, the odds of missing increase.

 

If your glasses are covered in dried salt from sweating for a couple hours, your front sight is not clear.

 

If that same sweat is pouring out of your palms, then your grip on the firearm changes with each shot which changes where the front sight is.

 

Three misses (last three shots) on the last stage Saturday. Yes, the front sight matters.

 

With clear glasses and a solid grip going for single taps on big close plates? They can be taken in passing without stopping. Usually. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 said:

When I first started shooting IPSC in 1980, we had Ray Chapman (1st IPSC World Champion) come to our range for instruction. He had us shooting dot's from the holster, 1 shot at a time. Later we had John Shaw and J. Michael Plaxco. They all used some variation of this.

I've got some of his guns...and his chair...jacket...even his Pool Que.

 

He was a hell of a shooter!

 

Phantom

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