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Black MZ load data

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I can't find a straight answer online so this should be fun LOL

 

 I been told black MZ can be loaded with gap cause it's not real black. Is this true? What are your loads for 38 and 45 so I can shoot Oregon state Black Powder Match

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Black mz is like app as it does not need to be compressed like real black. That being said best practice is to not leave an air gap, seat bullet to just touching the powder. I use a 1.3cc lee dipper for 38 and a 2.2 in 45colt.

Rafe 

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Agree with 2.2 cc in the 45 Colt. Either 200 gr or 250 gr bullet. 

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I use 1cc for everything.  No filler on C45S, 38 Special or 32WCF.  I use a small wad made from U-Haul biodegradable shipping peanuts for 44WCF and 38WCF.  1cc makes plenty of smoke and power.

 

You can tell from this video how much smoke and power 1cc of BlackMZ produces. 

 

 

I've made 3 other videos comparing BlackMZ to 3 black powder loads. 

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I use 17 grains (by weight) in .45LC with 200 grain bullet.  Never an issue.  Sorry don't load .38's

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You still have Black MZ?  The Alliant website says it's discontinued.

 

 

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I bought a case, and a few lbs every time I went to sportsman's warehouse. At $10 a bottle I can use it for my shotgun loads and save app or real black for rifle/pistol loads. Should be able to make it at least 2 years with my supply of blackmz

Rafe 

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1 minute ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

I bought a case, and a few lbs every time I went to sportsman's warehouse. At $10 a bottle I can use it for my shotgun loads and save app or real black for rifle/pistol loads. Should be able to make it at least 2 years with my supply of blackmz

Rafe 

 

I have a couple years supply but now that it's discontinued,  I'm just using it in cartridge loads. I've went to using cheapest real black in shotgun loads.  I load my cartridges with bullets I cast and size - no lube.  Can't make smoke cheaper.  

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Thanks everyone. Yeah I bought what was left at sportsman

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I cleaned out my local SW’s stock of Black MZ.  I use it for shotshells; 3F APP is reserved for metallic cartridges.

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Posted (edited)

-0- gap, -0- compression. Oddly enough, their directions for loading muzzleloaders said to make sure the ball is firmly seated on the powder. :mellow:

It was discontinued 3+ years ago, but it took awhile to get it all out of the pipeline. I used to pick up a few pounds every time I was in SW, and I've got plenty to last the rest of my life, and then some. Depending on discounts - veteran's discount, 20% off coupons, etc. it was really cheap to buy - as little as $7.59/pound.

Here's some data Alliant published for it.

 

Alliant Powder
Black MZ Cartridge Data
BY WEIGHT
The charges are by weight and are the charges, not to be reduced or increased.

 

38 Special (Federal brass, Fed 100 primer)
125 gr RNFP lead 16 grs @ 826 fps
158 gr RNFP lead 15 grs @ 773 fps

 

357 Rem Mag (Federal brass, Fed 100 primer)
125 gr RNFP lead 19.5 grs @ 913 fps
158 gr RNFP lead 19 grs @ 905 fps

 

44 SW Special (Federal brass, Fed 100 primer)
200 gr RNFP lead 25 grs @ 920 fps
240 gr RNFP lead 22 grs @ 869 fps

 

44 Rem Mag (Federal brass, Fed 150 primer)
200 gr RNFP lead 27.5 grs @ 1043 fps
240 gr RNFP lead 27 grs @ 995 fps

 

45 Colt (Federal brass, Fed 150 primer)
250 gr RNFP lead 26.5 grs @ 878 fps
300 gr RNFP lead 26 grs @ 824 fps

 

45/70 (Federal brass, Fed 210 primer)
350 gr RNFP lead 53 grs @ 1503 fps
405 gr RNFP lead 49 grs @ 1364 fps

--------------------------------------------------------------

Since their loads didn't specify a particular bullet, I don't know how they could be so rigid on the data. Just adjust the load so there's no gap and no compression.
 

Edited by Three Foot Johnson

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If you need further help or information please contact us at 800-276-9337.

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Black MZ was actually very similar to APP (same patent).  Loading instructions are the same for both.  Load to the bottom of the bullet, no air gap.  I shoot reduced loads and use Cream-0-Wheat as a filler.  I have not loaded with an air gap (that I know of).

 

The manufacturers make their recommendations for a reason.  Then again, some real manly men don't need instructions :ph34r:

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When using BMZ in a 45 Colt, do you completely disassemble the revolver for cleaning, or just clean the outside?  I usually shoot with Trailboss loads and don't dissassemble every shooting session, but do so occasionally.  I have a little over a lb of BMZ, and have to decide if I'll use it for Shotgun or 45.  Or in my cap guns for fun shooting.

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I loaded a 51 Confederate Navy 44 with 10 g BlackMZ and about equal amount of cream of wheat.  One cylinder full was enough to convince me that BlackMZ was too powerful for cap pistols.  

 

On revolvers,  I take off ejector housing,  roll out cylinder.  Place cylinder in sink. Run a light rag through cylinder hole in frame and fold it back tight around recoil shield.  Turn faucet to run pencil size stream.   Run water through bore entering forcing cone end.   Brush. Flush.  Note color of water. Repeat.  Usually twice is enough.  Go one more flush and brush. Put in drain rack muzzle down.  

 

Pick up cylinder that was left under steam.   Run brush through each chamber while under stream.  Take towel and dry off outside and set asside. Pick up gun and dry it off. Blow any water out of ejector hole base pin hole.

 

Run patch through bore and chambers. 

 

At some later time,  I coat bore with Bore Butter and take the same patch and whipe down the gun. 

 

Put the ejector assembly back on and reinstall the cylinder. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

...Put the ejector assembly back on and reinstall the cylinder. 

 

 

I don't think I have ever removed an ejector assembly to clean a revolver.

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54 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

I don't think I have ever removed an ejector assembly to clean a revolver.

 

Do you have stainless guns?  Mine are all blue and I clean them in the kitchen sink - including new Colt SAA.   There is no way to keep water from getting under and inside the ejector housing.  It's only one screw.

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Do you have stainless guns?  Mine are all blue and I clean them in the kitchen sink - including new Colt SAA.   There is no way to keep water from getting under and inside the ejector housing.  It's only one screw.

 

My guns are blued, I clean them in the sink but I don't dunk them nor hold the entire gun under the running water.

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Just now, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

My guns are blued, I clean them in the sink but I don't dunk them nor hold the entire gun under the running water.

 

I hold the gun at an angle in the empty sink so the stream of water hits in the forcing cone and runs through the bore.  The forward end of the frame and barrel gets wet. 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

When using BMZ in a 45 Colt, do you completely disassemble the revolver for cleaning, or just clean the outside?  I usually shoot with Trailboss loads and don't dissassemble every shooting session, but do so occasionally.  I have a little over a lb of BMZ, and have to decide if I'll use it for Shotgun or 45.  Or in my cap guns for fun shooting.

Degrease your revolvers and re-lube with BP-compatible lube before shooting MZ.   I use Ballistol but some use olive oil (smells better).  Clean the revolvers with a water-based solvent after shooting.  I field strip and clean the cylinders and barrel as there can be enough fouling to binding the revolvers.  MZ makes great shotgun shells.  Some BP subs perform poorly in cap guns.  There can be a noticeable delay between the cap popping and the powder burning.

Edited by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971
spelling

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I appreciate the responses, but I guess I wasn't clear enough in my question.  When I said "...completely disassemble the revolver..." I meant the action.  Remove springs, hand, bolt, trigger, all screws, etc.

 

When I shoot smokeless powder cartridges using powders like Unique, Titegroup, Trail boss, I field strip the revolvers by removing cylinder, pin, and bushing, and thoroughly clean barrel, chambers, etc.  Finish with a good thin coating of Ballistol.  But I only clean the outside of the action, squirting a little Balistol into the action around the bolt and the hand slot.

 

When I shoot Black Powder, I completely disassemble the action and clean all the parts as I described above.

 

My question is when using Black MZ, which Alliant claims is virtually zero corrosive, do you follow the same regimen as with Black Powder, or do you follow the regimen for smokeless?

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12 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

I appreciate the responses, but I guess I wasn't clear enough in my question.  When I said "...completely disassemble the revolver..." I meant the action.  Remove springs, hand, bolt, trigger, all screws, etc.

 

When I shoot smokeless powder cartridges using powders like Unique, Titegroup, Trail boss, I field strip the revolvers by removing cylinder, pin, and bushing, and thoroughly clean barrel, chambers, etc.  Finish with a good thin coating of Ballistol.  But I only clean the outside of the action, squirting a little Balistol into the action around the bolt and the hand slot.

 

When I shoot Black Powder, I completely disassemble the action and clean all the parts as I described above.

 

My question is when using Black MZ, which Alliant claims is virtually zero corrosive, do you follow the same regimen as with Black Powder, or do you follow the regimen for smokeless?

 

I clean like black powder. I just may not get at it as soon.  Especially if I'm planning to shoot it again the next day.

 

Cases will start turning green in three days in this humidity 

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I have used black mz in 180g 44 spl loads.  To take up the space I used 1/4” thick felt wads.   Otherwise as you go lighter bullets you load way more powder.  Worked well. 

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Alliant lied, there is no such thing as a BP substitute that is zero corrosive.

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PLUS ONE too Major BS Walker.

 

Black MZ and APP are not as prone to corrosion as some Subs are, but still, the Guns must be cleaned fairly soon.

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I spaced out cleaning a rifle one time for probably 3-4 weeks after shooting either APP or Black MZ. When I discovered it leaning against my bench, it had grayish fuzz in the barrel. :blink: A couple patches with Simple Green, dry patch, then a Ballistol patch, and there was no trace of corrosion afterward. Skeered me a bit though. Not that there was no corrosion, but none visible to the nekkid eye.

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