Buckshot Bob Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Right.....increasing labor costs, say $5,000/day per vessel is disastrous compared to saving $19,000/day per vessel in fuel costs. I have no idea what a retrofit would cost, but let's say a savings of $15,000 per day of steaming, that's $4,500,000 savings in 300 days of steaming. Might come close to paying for a retrofit. Even if it took 2 years to pay off a retrofit, in the 25 to 30 year average life of merchant vessels that still amounts to a significant reduction in fuel costs. But OHMYGAWDTHEARTICALSAIDCARBONEMISSIONS!!!!! So naturally it CAN'T be good and every True American should oppose it! Yeah....it might not work out. But, like the Pony Express....the heavily subsidized by the government Pony Express (OMG!!!!GOVERNMENTSUBSIDY!!) it's worth a shot. Industry tries all sorts of things that don't work, look at the oil industry and dry wells. I’m all for doing things the most efficient way. If this was actually that much of a savings I think businesses would actually be doing it. I don’t think for a minute they would want to pass the savings on to the consumer. But they would definitely want the profits. I would rather use domestically produced oil/gas and just skip the shipping. But we don’t seem to want to do that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 6 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 15 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Yeah....it might not work out. But, like the Pony Express....the heavily subsidized by the government Pony Express (OMG!!!!GOVERNMENTSUBSIDY!!) it's worth a shot. Well . . . since you bring it up: At the time Pony Express was the fastest way to get mail from one side of the country to the other. It is rational for the government to support such a service. But when the Pony Express couldn't financially make it on its own, the service was discontinued after two years. The relatively rapid demise of the Pony Express tends to indicate that the government did not decree that all other mail services had to end, use its regulatory authority to make it difficult, expensive, or impossible to send mail any way OTHER than the Pony Express. It did not impose additional costs on the users of other means of communication, and then use the funds to shore up financial shortfalls in the Pony Express. It did not use government regulating and permitting authority to reward or restrict consumer choices to achieve a government-decreed goal. Instead the government let the 'free hand' of the market work, the consumers made their choices, and the Pony Express became a bit of romantic western history. Edited March 4 by Ozark Huckleberry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 28 minutes ago, Ozark Huckleberry said: Well . . . since you bring it up: At the time Pony Express was the fastest way to get mail from one side of the country to the other. It is rational for the government to support such a service. But when the Pony Express couldn't financially make it on its own, the service was discontinued after two years. The relatively rapid demise of the Pony Express tends to indicate that the government did not decree that all other mail services had to end, use its regulatory authority to make it difficult, expensive, or impossible to send mail any way OTHER than the Pony Express. It did not impose additional costs on the users of other means of communication, and then use the funds to shore up financial shortfalls in the Pony Express. It did not use government regulating and permitting authority to reward or restrict consumer choices to achieve a government-decreed goal. Instead the government let the 'free hand' of the market work, the consumers made their choices, and the Pony Express became a bit of romantic western history. Bottom line....something new, government subsidized, failed. The only "subsidies" this attempt at maritime fuel savings is the usual business tax breaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Bottom line....something new, government subsidized, failed. Relevant (to your comment) bottom line -- something new, government subsidized, was ALLOWED TO FAIL on its own merits. Not shored up through ideology-driven government transfer of funds from successful consumer choices. Not sheltered from the market by regulation and permitting policies hostile to its competitors. Not carried along past the point at which it demonstrated it was a market failure through government intransigence (and likely, truth be told, corruption). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Interesting discussion about the pony. I had always understood that the pony was killed by a combination of THERE'S A WAR GOING ON and the telegraph. The pony charged $5 an ounce. Now if Aunt Susie wanted to write to nephew Joey out in California, she might be willing to pay that, if she's going to send a long newsy letter. But if Company A wants to send some information to their West Coast office, the telegraph is a whole lot cheaper. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 The choice is yours 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Raylan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 11 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Bottom line....something new, government subsidized, failed. The only "subsidies" this attempt at maritime fuel savings is the usual business tax breaks Tax breaks ARE subsidies and they are never-ending. Take away the taxpayer support and the entire green energy gambit dies overnight. Now, let’s take this dead horse topic to a new thread and leave this meme thread alone. Edited March 4 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: Darwinism at work. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: Darwinism at work. I hate to tell you guys this but you've been fooled. I was looking for the LA Times article because I wanted to see what part of LA he was from and I found this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gold-member/ I realize Snopes isn't very reliable either but when I couldn't find anything from the LA Times, I have to think they're correct. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 36 minutes ago, Calamity Kris said: I hate to tell you guys this but you've been fooled. I was looking for the LA Times article because I wanted to see what part of LA he was from and I found this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gold-member/ I realize Snopes isn't very reliable either but when I couldn't find anything from the LA Times, I have to think they're correct. I did the same, but didn’t consult Snopes. There is no story to be found about this supposed person. I’m amazed people fall for this s**t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 43 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: I did the same, but didn’t consult Snopes. There is no story to be found about this supposed person. I’m amazed people fall for this s**t. I don't think that it's necessarily that we, (I) believe the story, it's just that I have such little faith in people today that I think that somebody might be stupid enough to try it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 52 minutes ago, Alpo said: Bet he works for the gummint. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 37 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: I don't think that it's necessarily that we, (I) believe the story, it's just that I have such little faith in people today that I think that somebody might be stupid enough to try it. And start a TikTok "challenge." 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 That would be a much more compelling photograph if we knew for a fact that it was taken in California. Gas right now, here, is running right at $3. The highest it's been since Brandon took over is just under 4. And it has been down to real close to 2 several times. So $1.68 ain't all that impressive. But I have seen comments that California gas is running a close second to British gas. 7-8-9 dollars a gallon. So if California gas was $1.68, pre-Brandon, and is now 8 or 9 dollars - that would be an impressive statement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 minutes ago, Alpo said: That would be a much more compelling photograph if we knew for a fact that it was taken in California. Gas right now, here, is running right at $3. The highest it's been since Brandon took over is just under 4. And it has been down to real close to 2 several times. So $1.68 ain't all that impressive. But I have seen comments that California gas is running a close second to British gas. 7-8-9 dollars a gallon. So if California gas was $1.68, pre-Brandon, and is now 8 or 9 dollars - that would be an impressive statement. Personally I’d be very happy if gas got back down to $1.70 a gallon 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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