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32 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You sound like a good dad!  I bet your kids are delightful to be around-- except possibly when they beat you and let you know it.  I agree with everything you stated.  

His children are delightful.  He's used to getting beat by them, so that part doesn't impact him, I don't think.


Regarding your previous post about difficult matches.  Generally speaking there are two schools of thought among Match Directors, one being they're in the entertainment business and their job is to try to ensure people have a good time, the other is that they're responsible for putting on matches that challenge the shooter and help them develop their skills.  In my experience the majority of the practice top shooters put in happens at times other than monthly matches.  As long as you're giving variety in target sizes distances and spacing I wouldn't view the MDs job as helping to develop shooters, I suggest focusing on putting on a fun match for the majority.

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

His children are delightful.  He's used to getting beat by them, so that part doesn't impact him, I don't think.


Regarding your previous post about difficult matches.  Generally speaking there are two schools of thought among Match Directors, one being they're in the entertainment business and their job is to try to ensure people have a good time, the other is that they're responsible for putting on matches that challenge the shooter and help them develop their skills.  In my experience the majority of the practice top shooters put in happens at times other than monthly matches.  As long as you're giving variety in target sizes distances and spacing I wouldn't view the MDs job as helping to develop shooters, I suggest focusing on putting on a fun match for the majority.

When I make a match too difficult, it usually gets changed in review or in walk-through, well before the shooting starts .  When a match is too easy, I generally hear about it from folks who want a chance to show off their skills at longer accuracy shooting and who hope that emphasizing their practiced skill set will help them reach higher rankings.   That happens occasionally, because the good shooters do have to slow down to shoot more difficult targets, and like everyone else, their misses increase with longer shooting.  So they cannot win based on  fast gun handling alone.   But in reality, they usually have the other skills too, so rankings seldom vary too far.  

 

We can never settle this question with a single answer.  We've tried here on the Wire many times.  So I agree that our objective should be to provide variety, including some challenges, and fun, in a safe match.  That means different people are going to like different stages and different challenge levels, and those differences just have to be judged as OK in our match planning.   And in the end, we know the majority of our shooters will shoot whatever we put out there, and likely enjoy it.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
Corrected spelling

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2 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

That happens occasionally, because the good shooters do have to slow down to shoot more difficult targets,

This statement indicates your lack of experience.

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28 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

This statement indicates your lack of experience.

Believe whatever you choose to believe. 

I've never met a shooter who doesn't have to slow down to hit a 12" pistol target at 75yds.  But if you think you can do it at the same speed you can shoot at 5 yards, go ahead and believe it.  I'd like to see you demo that sometime.  

 

Relative rank is unlikely to change very much,  but individual stage time most certainly will increase with distance and difficulty.  

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4 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Believe whatever you choose to believe. 

I've never met a shooter who doesn't have to slow down to hit a 12" pistol target at 75yds.  But if you think you can do it at the same speed you can shoot at 5 yards, go ahead and believe it.  I'd like to see you demo that sometime.  

 

Relative rank is unlikely to change very much,  but individual stage time most certainly will increase with distance and difficulty.  

Another indicator of your level of experience in this game.

 

Common knowledge 101, chapter one: Slow the "fast" shooters down with stage design and you slow the average shooter and below even more.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Another indicator of your level of experience in this game.

 

Common knowledge 101, chapter one: Slow the "fast" shooters down with stage design and you slow the average shooter and below even more.

 

 

You just made my point very clearly.  The fast shooters do, in fact, slow down for harder targets. 

I never said the ranking would change, except occasionally.  Go back up and try to read more completely and carefully this time.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Another indicator of your level of experience in this game.

 

Common knowledge 101, chapter one: Slow the "fast" shooters down with stage design and you slow the average shooter and below even more.

C'mon Phantom,

You know there is that mythic shooter group out there that can't run their guns quickly; but when presented with pistol targets at 75 yards will somehow suddenly take over the top positions.

 

We have heard this nonsense for years.

And it is always new shooters presenting it.

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2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You sound like a good dad!  I bet your kids are delightful to be around-- except possibly when they beat you and let you know it.  I agree with everything you stated.  

Haha, she's a delight even when she beats me. Oh, she relishes the victory but she is a humble winner and I could not be more proud of her.

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Just now, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Haha, she's a delight even when she beats me. Oh, she relishes the victory but she is a humble winner and I could not be more proud of her.

Like I said--she has a great dad, now x10. 

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1 minute ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

I don't know if I'd be able to see it pistol Target at 75 yards:blink:

No kidding--my point exactly.  Nobody can reliably hit targets that hide behind their front sight, much less trying to shoot fast.  

  

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9 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You just made my point very clearly.  The fast shooters do, in fact, slow down for harder targets. 

I never said the ranking would change, except occasionally.  Go back up and try to read more completely and carefully this time.  

Whatever... Put your stoopid shovel down.

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14 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You just made my point very clearly.  The fast shooters do, in fact, slow down for harder targets. 

I never said the ranking would change, except occasionally.  Go back up and try to read more completely and carefully this time.  

Of course they slow down for more distant, more difficult targets.

 

But so does EVERYONE else.

 

And to insinuate that more distant, more difficult targets will somehow bring some anonymous shooter into contention with the top guns is a complete and utter fallacy.

 

Your slow, but super accurate shooter has a fatal flaw - he's slow.

 

Perhaps he can hit 10 of 10 at 75 yards - at  what, 3-5 seconds a shot?

 

Our top gun hits 6 of 10 in eight seconds.  Even with penalties - our fast shooter still wins handily.

And this is at the ridiculous extreme of cowboy pistols at 75 yards.

 

When you get to realistic distance.

 

The math never works.  Will never work and the tortoise never wins.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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And the snail riding on the tortoise back is yelling.......... Weeeeeeeeeee!

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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Just now, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

And the snail riding on the tortoise back is yelling.......... Weeeeeeeeeee!

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

I'd shoot the damn snail...75 yards...

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43 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Of course they slow down for more distant, more difficult targets.

 

But so does EVERYONE else.

 

And to insinuate that more distant, more difficult targets will somehow bring some anonymous shooter into contention with the top guns is a complete and utter fallacy.

 

Your slow, but super accurate shooter has a fatal flaw - he's slow.

 

Perhaps he can hit 10 of 10 at 75 yards - at  what, 3-5 seconds a shot?

 

Our top gun hits 6 of 10 in eight seconds.  Even with penalties - our fast shooter still wins handily.

And this is at the ridiculous extreme of cowboy pistols at 75 yards.

 

When you get to realistic distance.

 

The math never works.  Will never work and the tortoise never wins.

I'll say it again. 

Go back and read ALL of what I posted.  ( I can see that late in the day doesn't work for some folks) 

To save you the search, here it is:

 

"When a match is too easy, I generally hear about it from folks who want a chance to show off their skills at longer accuracy shooting and who hope that emphasizing their practiced skill set will help them reach higher rankings.   That happens occasionally, because the good shooters do have to slow down to shoot more difficult targets, and like everyone else, their misses increase with longer shooting.  So they cannot win based on  fast gun handling alone.   But in reality, they usually have the other skills too, so rankings seldom vary too far. " 

 

I don't know how much planer I could have stated it. What does "But in reality, they usually have the other skills too, so rankings seldom vary too far."  mean to you ? 

 

I stand by the above posting.  I see nothing in it that is not factually provable.  (But I'm weary of beating this dead horse over and over and over again, so I'm signing off on this thread.  Have a good evening.  Do something fun.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
Spelling of factually

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2 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 

I stand by the above posting.  I see nothing in it that is not facfuly provable.  (But I'm weary of beating this dead horse over and over and over again, so I'm signing off on this thread.  Have a good evening.  Do something fun.  

 

Just like the rest of us..... You'll be back.   ;)

 

..........Widder

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

C'mon Phantom,

You know there is that mythic shooter group out there that can't run their guns quickly; but when presented with pistol targets at 75 yards will somehow suddenly take over the top positions.

 

We have heard this nonsense for years.

And it is always new shooters presenting it.

You seem to have some reading comprehension issues.  What I posted is not reflected in your rendition. 

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6 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You seem to have some reading comprehension issues.  What I posted is not reflected in your rendition. 

There is no occasionally - there is no circumstance/ sequence/ target size, distance or array where the midpack shooter becomes a top shooter.

 

You claim that you're getting all this negative feedback from shooters when the match is perceived to be too easy.

I don't believe it 

You declare the match director should be building matches to separate the rank and file from the top shooters.

I don't agree with it.

 

I have been a successful match director within our game for nearly 20 years.

I have put on 100's of monthly matches and dozens of annuals.

I'm pretty sure in that span of years and matches - I had full comprehension of what my shooters wanted and the duties of a match director.

 

Before you begin telling us what we are doing wrong - Perhaps you might want to put a little more effort into comprehending exactly what our game is.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 their practiced skill set will help them reach higher rankings.   That happens occasionally, because the good shooters do have to slow down to shoot more difficult targets

Ain't many different ways to read this.

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2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

 emphasizing their practiced skill set will help them reach higher rankings.   That happens occasionally, because the good shooters do have to slow down to shoot more difficult targets, and like everyone else, their misses increase with longer shooting.  

 

If I have to agree with Phantom it pains me. If I have to agree with Creeker it also pains me. Having to agree with both of them on the same day in the same thread has me on the verge of Hari Kari. :wacko:

 

Dale, I absolutely 100% know what you’re trying to say, you just chose your words poorly. I quoted the offending section. I’ve only been in SASS for about 10 years but I’ve never EVER seen a match’s difficulty change the final rankings. I’ve shot with Creeker all of those 10 years and I can confidently say the same for him. I’ve never shot with Phantom but I’ve conversed with him enough that I’d bet my next paycheck he’d say the same. If you say you’ve seen it happen I’m certainly not going to call you a liar. But rest assured I’m going to take it with a grain of salt. 

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14 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Ain't many different ways to read this.

 

I used more words. I win. :P

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5 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

If I have to agree with Phantom it pains me. If I have to agree with Creeker it also pains me. Having to agree with both of them on the same day in the same thread has me on the verge of Hari Kari. :wacko:

 

Dale, I absolutely 100% know what you’re trying to say, you just chose your words poorly. I quoted the offending section. I’ve only been in SASS for about 10 years but I’ve never EVER seen a match’s difficulty change the final rankings. I’ve shot with Creeker all of those 10 years and I can confidently say the same for him. I’ve never shot with Phantom but I’ve conversed with him enough that I’d bet my next paycheck he’d say the same. If you say you’ve seen it happen I’m certainly not going to call you a liar. But rest assured I’m going to take it with a grain of salt. 

This is way out of control.  To make it as blunt as possible, my original posting  AGREES with all of yours.   Maybe I chose my words poorly, but THERE IS NOT A DISAGREEMENT HERE.  

Let it die.

  (OK Widder, you were right this time.  I looked back one last time in a weak moment and got hooked in) 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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Just now, Dusty Devil Dale said:

This is way out of control.  To make it as blunt as possible, my original posting  AGREES with all of yours.   Maybe I chose my words poorly, but THERE IS NOT A DISAGREEMENT HERE.  

Let it die.  

I prefer to be more proactive by killing things rather than just letting them die.

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I prefer to be more proactive by killing things rather than just letting them die.

Tough guy! Killer!

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I prefer to be more proactive by killing things rather than just letting them die.

Would you prefer a stick or spoon?

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Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Would you prefer a stick or spoon?

He probably uses his teeth!  Maybe a big Rambo knife and a rag around his head?

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13 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

This is way out of control.  To make it as blunt as possible, my original posting  AGREES with all of yours.   Maybe I chose my words poorly, but THERE IS NOT A DISAGREEMENT HERE.  

Let it die.

  (OK Widder, you were right this time.  I looked back one last time in a weak moment and got hooked in) 

 

When have I ever been 'not right'?    :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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Uh, Excuse me fellers.   Phantom is Borg.

 

He Assimilates..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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16 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Tough guy! Killer!

At least I don't attack folk's wives...You'll meet me...then you'll know me.

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10 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

He probably uses his teeth!  Maybe a big Rambo knife and a rag around his head?

This coming from a guy that wears tweed...

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'd shoot the damn snail...75 yards...

Lightweight, I’d shoot it at a hundred with both eyes closed!!! That’s what gunfighters do.:P

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28 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Would you prefer a stick or spoon?

 

Spoon!

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

At least I don't attack folk's wives...You'll meet me...then you'll know me.

 
WTH are you babbling about? Tweed, attacking wives? Have you been drinking?


LOL, ‘I’ll meet you then I’ll know you.’

 

Sounds like a starting line for a stage.  Will I have to wait for the beep?

 

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