Blackey Cole Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 For the reason PWB posted is the only reason I say yes it brings the bp cats in line with the smokeless cats. Imo I believe we should have a matrix of sorts that has shooting style down the side and combo of sex and powder across the top and if it fits then it's allowed plus the age and costume cats we already have then there will be no need to vote in new cats as most will be allowed then it's up to the shooters to get the three or more shooters required for a category at a match. Three for state and below, five for regional and the new distric matches and ten for national and above or go 1/10 th of the total shooters for a match. If you want you can add in age to the sex/powder heading like silver senior male gfer or 49er frontiersman female etc, I guess frontiersman would have to be added to the costume and make it firearms restrictive categories with or without dress requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 A simple list of recognized categories, including FCGF, is all we really need!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Head Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am all for it and I sure hope I can count on the TG's in the Northeast to support it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Let's just get this voted in and us FCGFers will worry about smoke, flame and age amongst ourselves. +1 and everybody not in FCGF mind their own business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I for one think there are way, way to many categories in SASS. I'm all for if you have enough people who sign up for a non-recognized category then provide at the it at a match just as I'm all for not having one if there's not enough participation. With that said and I'm not intending to be a jerk here I propose, that at the awards ceremony at all matches, they announce the overall winners, the Top 20, and if requested your individual overall finishing place first. Then we would see how many are concerned with just the overall or with the individual categories. I'd bet there wouldn't be many that hanging out until the end? JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I shoot FCGF if it is offered. I shoot LGF with the Smokeless Ones when it isn't but I STILL DO IT WITH BLACK POWDER. If I get a trinket in LGF (and I have a few) it doesn't really indicate what I did. It just says Lady Gunfighter. I didn't do that, I did it with black powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 And why is it so bad to shoot and not be in a category? So long as your time/score is recorded and you get to see how you stack up with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 And why is it so bad to shoot and not be in a category? So long as your time/score is recorded and you get to see how you stack up with everyone else.I suppose that can apply to all the other category shooters. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I suppose that can apply to all the other category shooters. GG Sorry, I didn't make it clear,,,, I was waving my hand at all categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 And why is it so bad to shoot and not be in a category? So long as your time/score is recorded and you get to see how you stack up with everyone else. Because I don't care how I stack up against EVERYONE else. I only care about how I stack up against gunfighters and more specifically against gunfighters that shoot BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I care about how I finish overall too!! But to dismiss others because they care about placement in their cats is rude and obnoxious! dang, I spelt that rite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Because I don't care how I stack up against EVERYONE else. I only care about how I stack up against gunfighters and more specifically against gunfighters that shoot BP. Completely understand and agree. I like shooting my 44's, and want to compete against others that are shooting "big bores." There's a category for that. Why not for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Harp, #21158L Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I have been shooting as a Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter for about 10 years even though sometimes I have been at a competitive disadvantage having to shoot in the Gunfighter category. Fortunately, here in New England most of the clubs that I compete at. do offer it at their monthly and major matches. Since Frontier Cartridge and Frontier Cartridge Duelist shooters are not forced to shoot in the smokeless categories, it would only make sense that Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter shooters should also have their own recognized category as well. Even though I am old enough to shoot as a silver senior I would be happy to just get FGGF as a recognized category without any further age subdivision. ~:Wylie:~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Completely understand and agree. I like shooting my 44's, and want to compete against others that are shooting "big bores." There's a category for that. Why not for you? I'm really hoping we will come January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I have been shooting as a Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter for about 10 years even though sometimes I have been at a competitive disadvantage having to shoot in the Gunfighter category. Fortunately, here in New England most of the clubs that I compete at. do offer it at their monthly and major matches. Since Frontier Cartridge and Frontier Cartridge Duelist shooters are not forced to shoot in the smokeless categories, it would only make sense that Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter shooters should also have their own recognized category as well. Even though I am old enough to shoot as a silver senior I would be happy to just get FGGF as a recognized category without any further age subdivision. ~:Wylie:~ There you go. No existing age breaks for FC categories. I'm a couple of years shy of Elder Statesman, got no desire to change this feature of BP shooting. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm really hoping we will come January I'm with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Because I don't care how I stack up against EVERYONE else. I only care about how I stack up against gunfighters and more specifically against gunfighters that shoot BP. Which is exactly the point of having categories in the first place...IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I care about how I finish overall too!! But to dismiss others because they care about placement in their cats is rude and obnoxious! dang, I spelt that rite!! CC & Tyrel, No problem. Not hard at all. You know who your competition is, or should, or at least the important ones that you are chasing., Look down the chart and see how you stacked up against them and you have your answer. Example. I placed 27th,, Bob placed 33rd Bill placed 19th Pete placed 55th That young gal placed 9th all of us were shooting that particular style. FCGF if you wish.... or two handed, or ?? Hmmmm, I don't want to be place in with that young thing.... don't know Pete, Bill changed styles in the middle of the match and Bob is a Good ol Boy,,,, Therefore, I am first!! I'm a Winner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 15, 2014 - Repeating the same insult is rude and obnoxious Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 15, 2014 - Repeating the same insult is rude and obnoxious I care about how I finish overall too!! But to dismiss others because they care about placement in their cats is rude and obnoxious! dang, I spelt that rite!! and I still stand by this statement, in FULL!! Link to comment
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 CC & Tyrel, No problem. Not hard at all. You know who your competition is, or should, or at least the important ones that you are chasing., Look down the chart and see how you stacked up against them and you have your answer. Example. I placed 27th,, Bob placed 33rd Bill placed 19th Pete placed 55th That young gal placed 9th all of us were shooting that particular style. FCGF if you wish.... or two handed, or ?? Hmmmm, I don't want to be place in with that young thing.... don't know Pete, Bill changed styles in the middle of the match and Bob is a Good ol Boy,,,, Therefore, I am first!! I'm a Winner... So, you are advocating that all categories be abolished, including gender? What's wrong with letting ACES do the calculating and we can sip a cold one and poke each other in the ribs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 So, you are advocating that all categories be abolished, including gender? What's wrong with letting ACES do the calculating and we can sip a cold one and poke each other in the ribs? Heck, one can selectively pick whomever, whatever, age whatever, gender whatever they want to by just picking and choosing whom they want by the final score board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 CC & Tyrel, No problem. Not hard at all. You know who your competition is, or should, or at least the important ones that you are chasing., Look down the chart and see how you stacked up against them and you have your answer. Example. I placed 27th,, Bob placed 33rd Bill placed 19th Pete placed 55th That young gal placed 9th all of us were shooting that particular style. FCGF if you wish.... or two handed, or ?? Hmmmm, I don't want to be place in with that young thing.... don't know Pete, Bill changed styles in the middle of the match and Bob is a Good ol Boy,,,, Therefore, I am first!! I'm a Winner... I'm buttin in... Because if there's 50 shooters at a monthly, I'll have zero idea who's shooting .40 cal and larger. Likewise on FCGF... You ain't puttin 50 people on one posse are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm buttin in... Because if there's 50 shooters at a monthly, I'll have zero idea who's shooting .40 cal and larger. Likewise on FCGF... You ain't puttin 50 people on one posse are you? I presumed that you would know the people at your monthly, what they are shooting and how they are shooting it, or more specifically, who the people you are chasing would be. Perhaps that is a wrong assumption on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 and I still stand by this statement, in FULL!! I stand with ya! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I presumed that you would know the people at your monthly, what they are shooting and how they are shooting it, or more specifically, who the people you are chasing would be. Perhaps that is a wrong assumption on my part. Wrong assumption. I just finished shooting the TN state that had 7 FCFG. I only knew who 2 of the others were. Shot down in AL back in June and only knew 1 out of 5 FCFG. Shot at a monthly at Wartrace(home club)in June only knew 1 out of 5. Tell us are you against this or just having fun debating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I presumed that you would know the people at your monthly, what they are shooting and how they are shooting it, or more specifically, who the people you are chasing would be. Perhaps that is a wrong assumption on my part. I chase my total time from the previous match. I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like to with my job, so I can't say I've gotten to know everyone. I'm sure I don't have a patent on that situation either. Do you shoot GF? Do you stand to lose some aspect of this game that is near and dear to you if FCGF's aren't shooting with GF's next year? Or would it be a wrong assumption on my part to believe that you're doing something other than stirring the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Actually, I shoot many matches in places where I have never been before and I seldom know everybody in my category. H#ll a couple of years ago I shot a major match where I only knew my son, who traveled with me, and the couple who invited me to come shoot!! You're d@mned skippy I want to know who beat me in my category, since I'm seldom shooting a category that will finish at the top of the heap! It is a matter of pride that I have won a time or two against some of the best in whatever category I shot that weekend, wherever I was. I repeat!! If all you care about is the overall winner, sit out most of the banquet and have somebody call you to let you know when they are about to make that announcement and let the rest of us enjoy the whole show!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I chase my total time from the previous match. I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like to with my job, so I can't say I've gotten to know everyone. I'm sure I don't have a patent on that situation either. Do you shoot GF? Do you stand to lose some aspect of this game that is near and dear to you if FCGF's aren't shooting with GF's next year? Or would it be a wrong assumption on my part to believe that you're doing something other than stirring the pot? I know who I am chasing or competing against and it crosses all the boundaries and categories. Nope, don't shoot GF but two handed. The only thing loss? Seems the meaning of winner is so diluted by the ever increasing categories... A T-ball mentality. Folks parading around with winner buckles that is ever increasingly difficult to tell if they shot in a low partisipation cat or a highly populated cat. Perhaps we will have two more cats, (FCGF) which puts us up to 34? If history repeats itself as it as with Duelist & GF, we will get male/female Senior FCGF categories. BTW, if passed, the FCGF would then have three categories to hope skip jump around + would remove some shooters from the GF category to switch to FCGF, and thus form two smallish official categories AND thus, easier to win an award. Nice. Not really stirring the pot. But formulating to myself that SASS has moved away from being a sport (I am sure people will argue that too), but more like a carnival entertainment thingy.... You know, throw the ring and win a gold fish. Agree, it is entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Nope, don't shoot GF but two handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hombre with no Nombre Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Well, it might not be my place to comment as I haven't even been to my first match yet and don't plan to until the next season starts, but it seems to me that most folks shooting FCGF already do it for the FUN. I can't think of a single good reason why anyone should be against making it official. It just gives the people that shoot black powder options equivalent to those shooting smokeless. No one is asking for age subcategories. And I honestly don't believe anyone is shooting this category for prizes. They're shooting it because that's what they enjoy. As far as I can tell and have read, this is one category whose time is due. And, if anyone is concerned that the regular gunfighter category has less competitors because of this, that's foolish. Black powder shooters are already at a disadvantage because of the smoke obscuring their vision of the targets. This just evens the playing field. As for black powder shooters having three categories to "hop, skip, and jump around" between... So what? A 60 year old man shooting smokeless has around 12,000 categories to do the same with (slight embellishment). Besides, how many people shooting gunfighter really go back to duelist? I'm guessing not many. Like I said, I figure my opinion isn't worth much until I start getting involved, but after reading so many pages of this, I felt like adding my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 FCGF only hop around in different categories because we don't have one! If shooting black powder was easy and if shooting gunfighter was easy, the category would be overloaded with people and divided up into a ton of age-based, clothes-based divisions like the Smokeless Ones. We do it because we love it, not so much to snatch a trinket. New BP shooters have gun issues, lube issues, cleaning issues, all kinds of things as they work that learning curve. The Gunfighter learning curve is pretty tough, too. Put 'em together and it's a lot of work for that few seconds of being able to do the coolest thing in the whole world that not many folks are able, willing or interested enough to put in the effort to accomplish. You can't just buy a couple a boxes of ammo and show up and shoot FCGF like you can in 49er or Cowboy or the other categories. It takes a lot of work and planning and practice just to show up and suck at it in the beginning. Some matches that offer FCGF have offered to create a ladies version just for me - absolutely not! I don't want it. If some other ladies want to shoot black powder gunfighter style, I'm in. I'm fine shooting with my Soot Brothers and would rather do that than shoot with the Smokeless LGF. I don't belong with them, I belong with the BP shooters. I don't think smokeless shooters understand us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Nope, don't shoot GF but two handed. LOL! Oh goodness.... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Nope, don't shoot GF but two handed. LOL Now THAT is funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Well, it might not be my place to comment as I haven't even been to my first match yet and don't plan to until the next season starts, but it seems to me that most folks shooting FCGF already do it for the FUN. I can't think of a single good reason why anyone should be against making it official. It just gives the people that shoot black powder options equivalent to those shooting smokeless. No one is asking for age subcategories. And I honestly don't believe anyone is shooting this category for prizes. They're shooting it because that's what they enjoy. As far as I can tell and have read, this is one category whose time is due. And, if anyone is concerned that the regular gunfighter category has less competitors because of this, that's foolish. Black powder shooters are already at a disadvantage because of the smoke obscuring their vision of the targets. This just evens the playing field. As for black powder shooters having three categories to "hop, skip, and jump around" between... So what? A 60 year old man shooting smokeless has around 12,000 categories to do the same with (slight embellishment). Besides, how many people shooting gunfighter really go back to duelist? I'm guessing not many. Like I said, I figure my opinion isn't worth much until I start getting involved, but after reading so many pages of this, I felt like adding my two cents. And "welcome to the fire" as they say. See there?? Some folks "get it" right from the start!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I know who I am chasing or competing against and it crosses all the boundaries and categories. Nope, don't shoot GF but two handed. Not really stirring the pot. But formulating to myself that SASS has moved away from being a sport (I am sure people will argue that too), but more like a carnival entertainment thingy.... You know, throw the ring and win a gold fish. Agree, it is entertaining. Most anyone will tell you when it comes right down to it that this is a game, not a sport. Bull fighting, racing motor vehicles, and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are games. That thought is attributed to Ernest Hemingway. That's why they're called the "Olympic Games"!!! And yeah!! You ARE stirring the pot!! 'S okay!! I got's me a big spoon too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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