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Hoss

Unloading table "what's the call"

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Last stage of match, shooter (me) leaves line with guns, and goes to cart. Had put rifle in cart, hands off, when several folks hollers "unloading table" took guns to table and unloaded (with red face)

Reading rule book, I found it says MUST go to unloading table, but no specific penalty stated. Also says if arrive at next stage with uncleared gun its a SDQ on previous stage.

 

What think you?

 

I think it should have been a SDQ for not following loading unloading procedures.

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You are correct...SDQ for the reason you stated.

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the point of the penalty was when the shooter took his hands off of his long gun in his cart....

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If it was a hot day, then maybe there was not enough blood in your brain! I have not YET done this.

It was sho-nuff hot! Actually, I think I was so looking forward to getting the gear off that I had a brain fade.

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I don't remember chuten with y'all today.............throw in a dropped pistol and I know we were at the same match

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Last stage of match, shooter (me) leaves line with guns, and goes to cart. Had put rifle in cart, hands off, when several folks hollers "unloading table" took guns to table and unloaded (with red face)

Reading rule book, I found it says MUST go to unloading table, but no specific penalty stated. Also says if arrive at next stage with uncleared gun its a SDQ on previous stage.

 

What think you?

 

I think it should have been a SDQ for not following loading unloading procedures.

I would have not called you on it if it was the last stage of the day, but I would have given you S*** for it for another 2 or 3 years

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Yeah, technically you took your hand off of it. Give the keys to the Caddy back to the MD.

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I would have not called you on it if it was the last stage of the day, but I would have given you S*** for it for another 2 or 3 years

That's actually what prompted the question, since it was the last stage of the day, it throws a wrinkle in. Of course, if your pards are like mine, I would rather take the SDQ than listen to them for the next 2-3 years!

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Why would it being the last stage throw in a wrinkle, please?

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Yeah, technically you took your hand off of it. Give the keys to the Caddy back to the MD.

Where does it say in the rule books about 'technically you took your hands off of it', thus you earned the penalty?

 

I rather know that is kinda the gentlemen/women wink, wink way of doing it.

 

Does that mean that the shooter on deck can deviate from the loading table to staging area, to gun cart to place loading strip in it, while still keeping his hands on guns w/o call? <_< Probably not.

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Believe you will find it's a SDQ for not complying with loading/unloading procedures. And the penalty applies on the stage you just shot. Doesn't matter if it's the last stage.

 

Read the RO I manual, page 14. Range Safety Rules

 

Failure to adhere to Loading and Unloading procedures will result in a Stage Disqualification. Leaving the Unloading table without clearing all firearms is a failure to adhere to unloading procedures and will result in the penalty being assessed on the stage where the infraction was committed.

 

When you take your hands off your guns when going to the unloading table, you have bought any penalties for not clearing rounds/empties in the guns. Would assume that would be the "magic time" at which you bought this penalty, too.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Believe you will find it's a SDQ for not complying with loading/unloading procedures. And the penalty applies on the stage you just shot. Doesn't matter if it's the last stage.

 

Read the RO I manual, page 14. Range Safety Rules

 

When you take your hands off your guns when going to the unloading table, you have bought any penalties for not clearing rounds/empties in the guns. Would assume that would be the "magic time" at which you bought this penalty, too.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

That's the generally accepted "point of no return" past which the shooter will receive the SDQ.

 

...and, as noted, it doesn't matter if it's the first or the last stage.

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I would have not called you on it if it was the last stage of the day, but I would have given you S*** for it for another 2 or 3 years

So what do you say to the other guy on the other posse that DID receive his/her SDQ for doing the same thing?

 

Call the dang penalties that are EARNED!

 

and my gawd help us all...

 

Phantom

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Phantom,

 

I totally agree.

 

Especially when there are only 10 shooters, in ten different catagories at the monthly match, They still are catagory winners.

 

In rare cases, a tong lashing is better than a SDQ to someone that never leaves town.

 

 

 

(don't take this too serious, but it happens at some monthlies)

 

good evening.

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Why would it being the last stage throw in a wrinkle, please?

RO 2 page 25

Arriving at the designated loading area with uncleared firearms after completing a stage

within the same day (assessed on the previously completed stage).

 

Bear in mind, I thought then, and think now its a SDQ, but others were not 100% on the rule . An arguement could be made according to the rule quoted above that the penalty is not "earned" until shooter arrives at next stage (on same day) with uncleared firearms.

 

I'm not trying to "lawyer" my way out of a penalty. I jsut want to be sure I know the correct penalty to apply in the future. I would hate to call a penalty, or not call a penalty, that would have a huge impact at any match. a monthly, for most, no big deal. At a major match, some folks would be mighty upset.

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A felony is not a felony till you get caught ;)

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An arguement could be made according to the rule quoted above that the penalty is not "earned" until shooter arrives at next stage (on same day) with uncleared firearms.

 

 

 

 

No, no argument can be made because the rule applicable to the situation, not following unloading table procedures, says clearly the penalty applies at the stage where the shooter failed to go to the unloading table before dropping guns at cart.

 

 

Now, had the shooter's unloading table infraction not been spotted, and if the shooter had left rounds (fired or unfired) in a gun, and had there been another stage to shoot, then the situation that you are now talking about would deserve a penalty. That's a lot of mistakes that all have to stack together for that penalty to kick in.

 

Keep it simple and don't let the rule book lawyers try to talk their way out orf a penalty they earned because there is another rule about another situation in the book! Penalize the situation when it happens!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

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A couple of years ago at a two day match, I was the last shooter on the last stage on the first day of the match. I went to the unloading table - unloaded the pistols and the rifle. The ULT Officer examined the rifle, pistols and the shotgun. I place the firearms into my truck. I did not even look at them until the second day of the match. On the second day I retrieved the firearms from the truck at the match to place in my gun cart. When I opened the action on the shotgun, there was an empty hull in it. It could have only been missed at the ULT the day before. I reported this to the Match Director, saying I believe I earned a SDQ on the last stage of the previous day.

 

The Match Director stated that even though it was a continuation of the match, it was the next day. And even though I stated the shotgun had not been touched, there could be no certification it was not. So there would be NO Call.

 

Was this correct ?

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A couple of years ago at a two day match, I was the last shooter on the last stage on the first day of the match. I went to the unloading table - unloaded the pistols and the rifle. The ULT Officer examined the rifle, pistols and the shotgun. I place the firearms into my truck. I did not even look at them until the second day of the match. On the second day I retrieved the firearms from the truck at the match to place in my gun cart. When I opened the action on the shotgun, there was an empty hull in it. It could have only been missed at the ULT the day before. I reported this to the Match Director, saying I believe I earned a SDQ on the last stage of the previous day.

 

The Match Director stated that even though it was a continuation of the match, it was the next day. And even though I stated the shotgun had not been touched, there could be no certification it was not. So there would be NO Call.

 

Was this correct ?

"A" for honesty.

 

By you own admission, you should've got a SDQ since you did not properly clear your guns from the previous stage of the match.

 

this will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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A couple of years ago at a two day match, I was the last shooter on the last stage on the first day of the match. I went to the unloading table - unloaded the pistols and the rifle. The ULT Officer examined the rifle, pistols and the shotgun. I place the firearms into my truck. I did not even look at them until the second day of the match. On the second day I retrieved the firearms from the truck at the match to place in my gun cart. When I opened the action on the shotgun, there was an empty hull in it. It could have only been missed at the ULT the day before. I reported this to the Match Director, saying I believe I earned a SDQ on the last stage of the previous day.

 

The Match Director stated that even though it was a continuation of the match, it was the next day. And even though I stated the shotgun had not been touched, there could be no certification it was not. So there would be NO Call.

 

Was this correct ?

 

Yep, benefit of the doubt was given the shooter. An unloading table official looked and possibly made a mistake that the gun was empty. He's required to do that carefully. You as the shooter should verify his inspection, carefully. Someone could have put a fired hull into your shotgun before you got it to the truck, or after you brought the gun out the second day. All those considerations are usually strong enough to give benefit of the doubt to shooter - so no call would be appropriate.

 

Sometimes you are the windshield, as the saying goes.

 

A really good practice to get into is one of the basic firearms safety rules - check your guns are empty any time when you pick them up, such as when you take them out of your truck. There should have been at least four times you should have checked that shotgun to insure it was empty. Sounds like you did not do a careful job at least once. Naming those opportunities:

* At the unloading table

* Removing them from cart at end of first day

* Removing them from truck on second day

* Removing them from cart at first stage, second day.

 

Good luck, GJ

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So what do you say to the other guy on the other posse that DID receive his/her SDQ for doing the same thing?

 

Call the dang penalties that are EARNED!

 

and my gawd help us all...

 

Phantom

You are right Phantom, I retract my previous statement. I would give Phantom a SDQ for not recognizing the cheap shot I was taking at Hoss. You happy now Phantom.

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You are right Phantom, I retract my previous statement. I would give Phantom a SDQ for not recognizing the cheap shot I was taking at Hoss. You happy now Phantom.

Oh...brother...

 

I saw two points to your original post and I was responding to the one you edited. If you felt like my response to your saying that you would not have given a SDQ was wrong, just say it!!!

 

Stop with this silly "I'm changing it to make you happy" stuff...

 

If I"m wrong...I'll say I'm wrong...won't go and try and point fingers at the folks that brought that to my attention...

 

Phantom

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And change the Unloading officer, he gave not enough attention to the shooters leaving the line of fire.

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In 10 years, I have earned an SDQ twice. Both were for doing this on stage 9 at Old Fort Parker. The set ups were totally different so there is no connection, just coincidence. The last time was DOFP shot 2 weeks ago. It was very unique because I.had shot stages 8, 9 and 10. When we moved to stage 6, I noticed brass in my Rugers. I approached the scorekeeper and notified the scorekeeper to DQ me on the previous stage(10).

 

Hours later, after the results had all been compiled, I realized that stage 10(which I shot quite well) was an all shotgun stage where the pistols were left on the cart and never went to the ULT. The SDQ should have been taken on stage 9(which was a train wreck anyway). Some days you just can't win.

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