Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 She best never leave the USA - her acquittal was just overturned. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 They do things differently over there... Good thing it wasn't a Middle Eastern country. Present admin would likely extradite her! Ooops!! Did I say that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Italy does have extradition with USA. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 yer on the list now for sure! Like we all weren't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Italy does have extradition with USA. LG From what I understand (doubt the US will extradite her): The US does have an extradition treaty with Italy, but any request following the conviction, must still pass various levels of review by the US State Department. ...and there will be another appeal to a higher court in Italy. This is interesting: It is unlikely Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-retrial/ What will happen to Knox if she is convicted? Whatever is decided Thursday may not mean the case is closed. Either side can appeal a verdict they are unhappy with, under Italy's three-strike trial system. This could also mean the case would continue with no immediate outcome. Even if Knox is convicted this time around, it is unlikely she will ever return to Italy. One legal expert told CNN that since U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, she will not be extradited. "Under U.S. law, she was once put in jeopardy and later acquitted," said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York. "Under the treaty, extradition should not be granted." Speaking before the retrial, Casey added that the many flaws in the original verdict would also give Knox protection. There is a valid extradition agreement between the two nations, but the U.S. has not set much of a precedence in returning suspects for such matters. Italians point to a number of high-profile cases over the years in which they say American suspects have been accused of wrongdoing and criminal acts, but have been let off lightly. In 1998, an American military jet clipped a ski lift cable, sending a gondola of 20 passengers to their deaths in the Italian Dolomite Mountains. Italian prosecutors wanted the crew of the jet tried in Italy, but an Italian court ruled they should face courts-martial in the U.S., in accordance with NATO treaties. The aircraft's pilot and navigator were found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter, even though the military admitted the plane had been flying lower and faster than authorized. When it emerged that a video that captured the accident from inside the plane had been destroyed, they were dismissed from the Marine Corps. Italians were outraged, referring to the incident as the"massacre of Cermis." In another incident that raised tensions, Egyptian cleric Abu Omar was seized off the streets of Milan in 2003 and smuggled to Egypt, where he says he was tortured and released four years later. Although Italy did not request the extradition of any of the suspects, 22 CIA agents were convicted in absentia of the kidnapping and sentenced to prison time for their role in the abduction, but none ever served time in Italy. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-verdict-explainer/index.html GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 From what I understand (doubt the US will extradite her): The US does have an extradition treaty with Italy, but any request following the conviction, must still pass various levels of review by the US State Department. ...and there will be another appeal to a higher court in Italy. GG ~ Only time will tell...... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Only time will tell...... LG Yup. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've know little about the case (except salacious news stories) and have no idea of her guilt or innocence. What I do know is our constitution guarantees we can't be prosecuted for the same crime twice. God bless our founding fathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Our constitution don't hold much weight in our own country. What makes you think a foreign government cares what our constitution says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 My guess is that Ms Knox might wish to limit her vacations to elsewhere in the United States, since any travel outside the US and especially to other European countries, might result in her being snatched up and extradited back to Italy at the request of the Italian government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The big questions is does her double jeopardy rights attach before the extradition or not? I have read two articles recently. Two "legal experts" stated two opposite opinions. The one GG quoted said no way on extradition. This one stated no reason extradition wouldn't happen. http://news.yahoo.com/us-likely-extradite-knox-italy-asks-000547631.html I guess that is what "expert" means. Of course they also talk pointlessly about getting snowden back. Serious differences, snowden is a US citizen, unless he has renounced. He has not yet been convicted of a crime. I don't know but, I doubt there actually is an extradition treaty between USA and Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 What makes you think a foreign government cares what our constitution says? ??? My point was the difference appears to be that in Italy they can try a criminal case even after aquittal, which doesn't happen in U.S. courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Deadwood, My comment was not directed at you or anyone in particular. Sorry if it was taken that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 US 'rites', don't mean squat when a crime is committed in another country. I,at this juncture, see no reason at all why she could NOT be extradited to Italy. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Having an extradition agreement with Italy doesn't necessarily equate to an obligation to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 For those in doubt of the possiblity of double jeopardy being involved a perusal of the follow might be in order Check out article VI of the following. it is 8 pages down. There is a preface letter and then the treaty. http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Italy%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf AK's future depends upon the reading of that document and AK's team no doubt hopes this applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Having an extradition agreement with Italy doesn't necessarily equate to an obligation to do so. You must have been a used car salesman at one time LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think the United States State Dept. should consider an extradition request, and let it go through the normal bureucratic process...for about the next 100 years! This is double jeopardy in diamonds, hearts, spades and clubs! But, then I wouldn't be surprised if the current administration wanted to demonstrate how cooperative we are with our "allies", and to h..l with an individual's constitutional rights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know squat about Italian criminal trial procedures. In the U.S., convictions get over turned all the time and they get a new trial. This is not double jeopardy. Often they are released on bond pending the new trial. We may be mixing up legal definitions here. If poor little Amanda Knox did participate in killing her roommate during a drug binge, I hope she rots in an Italian prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think the United States State Dept. should consider an extradition request, and let it go through the normal bureucratic process...for about the next 100 years! This is double jeopardy in diamonds, hearts, spades and clubs! But, then I wouldn't be surprised if the current administration wanted to demonstrate how cooperative we are with our "allies", and to h..l with an individual's constitutional rights! +1 pard. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I don't know squat about Italian criminal trial procedures. In the U.S., convictions get over turned all the time and they get a new trial. This is not double jeopardy. Often they are released on bond pending the new trial. We may be mixing up legal definitions here. If poor little Amanda Knox did participate in killing her roommate during a drug binge, I hope she rots in an Italian prison. She was convicted and she appealed. She was then retried and aquitted. In Italy's system the prosicution can appeal, which they did, and won a new trial where she was again convicted. In the US that would be double jeopardy. I don't know enough about the evidence but if she IS guilty then she should rot in an Italian prison. Double jeopardy also doesn't mean diddly in the US when it comes to "civil rights" cases, especially when the subject has already been tried by the media. JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 This is a screwed up mess. How can anyone have confidence in the system if you can be tried multiple times, with varying results, after the forensic evidence is mishandled beyond reliability? Seems like Fiat designed the judicial system in Italy..... If Italy sought extradition, I would find a way to politely defer.... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliope Cupcake #13981 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Italy does have extradition with USA. LG US does not have any such agreement with Italy, or US would have agreed to send her back before this 3rd trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Caliope, Italy and the USA do have an extradition treaty. To initiate an extradition the italians would have had to ask the USA to extradite AK. Please read the link in post number 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Give the Italian Court judges an invitation to one of the PM's many porn parties in the Executive mnasion, a few large jugs of vino, and a new bocci set. They'll be so confused, and busy arguing about whose ball is the scoring ball, they'll change their minds on the Knox case, yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 US does not have any such agreement with Italy, or US would have agreed to send her back before this 3rd trial. You're wrong...... It's been in place since 1984. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliope Cupcake #13981 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 it's for extraditing Italians, not Americans, back to Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 it's for extraditing Italians, not Americans, back to Italy Please, indicate to what section of the treaty that states this. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 This is a screwed up mess. How can anyone have confidence in the system if you can be tried multiple times, with varying results, after the forensic evidence is mishandled beyond reliability? Seems like Fiat designed the judicial system in Italy..... If Italy sought extradition, I would find a way to politely defer.... LL Hey, hey, hey now, Loophole....! I've had a few Fiats, back in the day ~ they wuz fun cars! One 128 Sport and two 124 Sport Spiders. For the most part pretty darned reliable (okay, a couple of quirks, mebbe), and EASY to work on! Now, as far as their legal system... reckon their legislators been hittin' the Chianti back in the cloakroom. And remember... that traditional straw-wrapped jug is known as a "fiasco!" Probably for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliope Cupcake #13981 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 the reverse is for temporary surrender to stand trial; which she has done--twice and found not guilty--therefore fulfilled that obligation; so the way her atty explained it, US is under no further obligation to send her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Calliope's on her game this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliope Cupcake #13981 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 It's a one-page doc. Lumpy, the third paragraph states "... to facilitate US efforts to prosecute narcotics conspiracies..." etc. and "for temporary surrender of prisoners..." [italian] "..which occurred in the requesting state." meaning a state in the US. That means they cooperate by sending back Italian prisoners for prosecution for drug trafficking in US. we won't make her go back. http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Italy%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf I wish her ll the luck in the world---see y'all on another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 "The treaty will facilitate United States efforts to prosecute narcotics conspiracies by expressly providing that conspiracies and attempts to commit extraditable offenses constitute extraditable offenses. The Treaty also provides a legal basis for temporarily surrendering prisoners to stand trial for crimes which occurred in the requesting State" If, this IS section to which you refer... 1. It's not inclusive to just narco activities. 2. Don't see anything stating 'Italian' LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G #1840 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 She had best not visit an Olive Garden restaurant either. Nothing political or legal, just crappy food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Caliope, You are reading too much into the cover and justification letters. The body of the treaty really begins on page 5 and dribbles on for several more pages. The first couple pages of that link are more like cover and justification letters and don't mean anything. The actual treaty does NOT mention narcotics at all. And does NOT mention only one way for italians. It states reciprocal extradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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