Powder power equivalence

[Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053]

Does X weight of Trailboss equal the same weight of Bullseye?

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Does X weight of Trailboss equal the same weight of Bullseye?

 

If you are asking if 5.0 g of Trailboss weighs the same weight as 5.0 g of Bullseye, of course it does. The volume of powder will be entirely different. THE LOAD WILL BE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. This includes internal pressure, velocity, etc. NEVER EVER ASSUME WEIGHTS GIVEN FOR ONE POWDER ARE THE EQUIVALENT PERFOERMANCE TO POWDER WEIGHTS FOR ANOTHER POWDER. ONE MAY WORK FINE THE OTHER MAY BLOW UP YOUR GUN AND DO DRAMATIC PERSONAL INJURY AND IN THE WORST CASE DEATH. If you are seriously asking this question, get some reloading help immediately and do not attempt any reloading until you do. Read several reloading manuals, not the load part but the parts about how do do reloading.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Based on the way your question is phrased NOOOOOOO! If you don't know this cease and desist hand loading and buy some manuals or have some one sit down and talk about loading and the differences in powders.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Power?

 

That's a hard characteristic to try to assign to a smokeless powder.

 

Would TrailBoss propel the same slug to the same power factor as the same amount of Bullseye? Nope, because of several differences between the makeup of the powders. Most important, is the Burn Rate of the powder. Bullseye is a very fast burning smokeless, and contains a lot of nitroglycerin in addition to it's nitrocellulose. TrailBoss is a medium rate single-base (nitrocellulose only) smokeless with a lot of special preparation at the manufacturing plant to make it "fluffy" (porous base). So, from a physical chemistry point of view, with the wide variations in composition and additives in smokeless powders, they would not have equivalent BTU heats of combustion (which is somewhat related to the Power in the powder).

 

But, simply put, a quick peek at any good loading manual will show you that the two powders can almost NEVER be loaded to the same weight for any particular cartridge.

 

No shortcuts when loading - start with published recommended loads!

 

Good luck, and good sense! GJ

[Michigan Slim]

Spittoon, how do you still have all your fingers???

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

HELL NO!

What kind of STUPID, is this?

LG

[Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053]

Who said anything about reloading? Thanks Garrison Joe for your response.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Who said anything about reloading? Thanks Garrison Joe for your response.

Really

What ELSE, would your question have to deal with?

Please explain................

LG

[Tom Bullweed]

Unless the powders are identical (like HP-38 and W-231) I assume that every powder has its own pressure curve for any specific cartridge/bullet/primer combination. Adding .5 grain of powder A will have a different result than adding the same amount to powder B.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Who said anything about reloading? Thanks Garrison Joe for your response.

Well you certainly implied it by the question you asked:

 

1. You asked about Trailboss and Bullseye. Neither are loaded commercially especially in loads one might compare.

2. Even if say Bullseye was loaded commercially, most commercial ammo companies do not specify the weight of powder loaded, nor the powder being used.

3. You have made other recent posts concerning reloading

4.. Sure sounded like a reloader that was about to jump off a cliff of no return.

[Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053]

Well you certainly implied it by the question you asked:

 

1. You asked about Trailboss and Bullseye. Neither are loaded commercially especially in loads one might compare.

2. Even if say Bullseye was loaded commercially, most commercial ammo companies do not specify the weight of powder loaded, nor the powder being used.

3. You have made other recent posts concerning reloading

4.. Sure sounded like a reloader that was about to jump off a cliff of no return.

No I was not going to use Trailboss load data for Bullseye, as Lumpy brilliantly stated....that would be stupid. Your assumptions, conjecture of intent, and conclusions are wrong. Getting a beat down for something I didn't ask sucks...I'm out of this saloon and yes the door has hit me in the ass.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

FWIW, Bullseye is my powder of choice for NRA bullseye in my Les Baer "Wadcutter" .45ACP 1911A1. Properly loaded, my pistol will shoot into 1/2" at 50 yards. Unfortunately, at my age and using my Aimpoint, it is now "follow the bouncing ball"! :-(

 

Trail Boss would be a good SASS powder but I use Schuetzen. :-)

 

Even long time reloaders similar to me use reloading manuals. I try to use the most current editions because things change.

[Three Foot Johnson]

No. The energy in an equivalent weight of different powders is going to be different, just as a gallon of diesel has a higher energy density than gasoline.

[Buck N Bronco]

Does X weight of Trailboss equal the same weight of Bullseye?

 

Interesting question, you must have found some similarity between the two powders? In scrounging for powders to get whatever I can, I have noticed that the “minimum” Bullseye load approximately equals the “maximum” Trail Boss load at least for what I am loading. I load 45Colt with 200 grain bullets and know that x.5grains of Trail Boss will push that bullet at a velocity of roughly 855 feet-per-second, while x.6grains of Bullseye pushes the same bullet at a comparable 881 feet per second. (these velocities are according to my loading tables) The difference is that x.5grains of Trail Boss is the “maximum” recommended charge for that powder, while x.6grains of Bullseye is its “minimum” recommended load. Not only are the velocities similar, both powders have a roughly comparable fast burn rate: according to Hodgdon the Bullseye is rated #13 fastest and Trail Boss #19 fastest out of 145 powders listed. (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html )

 

So from a purely “Academic” point of view and judging by the grain weight, velocities, burn-rate, and presumably the pressures – it appears the “power” of the two powders are fairly similar…..at least for a 45LC 200 grain lead slug in a cavernous casing using x.5 or x.6grains of powder. Still, despite a similar burn rate there is something sufficiently different about how the two develop their power curve and pressures that dictates that x.5grains of Trail Boss is a “maximum” load developing 11,000psi while x.6grains of Bullseye is a “minimum” load. Can’t see any practical use, but it made for an interesting thought over a cup of coffee…..and I thank you for that! I like Trail Boss for its ability to get lower velocities and reduced kick while using less powder – although it is a bit more pricey. Buck

 

(EDIT: Thank You GJ, I made the changes you requested.)

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

BNB - your post includes load data, and it seems not to be necessary to make your points. Would you mind scrubbing those data points?

 

Good luck, GJ

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Perhaps the OP could be re-stated to clarify the desired result of the inquiry. It is so ambiguous in it's original from, I cannot conceive that correct answer will ever be achieved.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

BNB - your post includes load data, and it seems not to be necessary to make your points. Would you mind scrubbing those data points?

 

Good luck, GJ

Please, someone may actually use this as know data

 

Perhaps the OP could be re-stated to clarify the desired result of the inquiry. It is so ambiguous in it's original from, I cannot conceive that correct answer will ever be achieved.

At first I had to look at my calender, thought might be April fools

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

If the question is really something like, which can of smokeless powder might be able to blow out a stump better, I'd guess that Bullseye would win hands down (due to it's 30% nitroglycerin content), but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Here's a true story:

 

Back about 1920, my great uncle was clearing a large oak tree from the field back behind his house in Southern Illinois. He and some neighboring farmers got it down to the stump, and he wanted it ALL the way out, stump included. Someone had some dynamite, and so they stuffed a few sticks under that five-foot diameter stump and lit the fuse and took cover. Well, when that went off, the stump lifted alright - about 200 yards in the air and came down right through the back porch roof of the farm house - well over 200 yards away.

 

Be careful out there, my friend!

 

Good luck, GJ

[Trailrider #896]

With the few exceptions where the same powder is marketed with two different designations (because the same powder manufacturer sold to two different distributors...e.g. W231 sold by Winchester and HP38 sold by Hodgdons), you CANNOT assume that even if two powders look the same that they are the same or anywhere near similar in burning rate. Even powders with the same designation may differ somewhat from lot to lot! it behooves the handloader to recheck their loads when using a new lot of the same powder. Nowadays powder makers are getting better at matching characteristics from lot to lot. But it still pays to be careful. Also, manufacturers change their powder makeup in some ways. Although they try to maintain the burning rates, better instrumentation over the years has caused them to change the loads in the powder manuals. This is especially true of manuals that, in the old days, utilized copper crusher data, versus data taken with electronic instrumentation, which is pretty much the norm in the last 20-30 years. There is NO conversion possible from CUP or LUP (lead, used for shotgun data in past years) to pesioelectric sensors.

 

Note: This information has been posted countless times before, and most of us know it. HOWEVER... there are always newcomers to the sport and the Wire, so it could prevent problems for the uninitiated newby.

 

Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year everybody!

[bo bean 61280]

i wanted to ask about a shotgun powder, but i 'm afraid to now:>)

[Blood Washed SASS #79269]

Hey Spittoon,

In answer to your original post.........yes.........

end of story.

Hope to see ya soon.

Blood Washed

[The Shoer 27979]

i wanted to ask about a shotgun powder, but i 'm afraid to now:>)

go ahead and ask Bo Bean

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

i wanted to ask about a shotgun powder, but i 'm afraid to now:>)

Chicken...........

LG