T. H. O' Sullivan Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There are millions of Americans working in jobs which provide no health insurance. This is the case with many small businesses (machine shops, car repair shops, small retailers, etc.). As you know many workers chose to have a higher withholding in the Federal and State taxes via their employer, expecting that nice refund at tax time next year. This sort of thing is also big business for H&R Block and other tax preparers. As I understand it, beginning in 2014 if you don't have a health insurance policy in place for yourself, you will be subjected to a government penalty, defined now by the Supreme Court as a tax. If you're income is around $30,000 per year, the "tax" will be @ $2100.00. Each year after 2014 the "tax" for no insurance increases where it caps out at around $4000.00-$4500.00. Can you imagine the number of taxpayers with no health insurance, who are not keeping up with the Affordable Care Act, expecting their tax return after a year of hard work, only to have it confiscated by the I.R.S.? And if your return is not enough to cover the no-insurance penalty, it would still be owed. If all of this works as described, can you imagine the outrage building nationwide because of confiscated tax refunds? Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Balz, SASS#46599 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have thoughts, but promised BH I wouldn't. We're soooooooo screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have thoughts, but promised BH I wouldn't. We're soooooooo screwed I best take Dusty's advice.... And yes we're screwed. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 So if I have private health insurance, am I still screwed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 As long as the DIP is in office your screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. H. O' Sullivan Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have thoughts, but promised BH I wouldn't. We're soooooooo screwed It's not a political discussion, it's about health insurance & taxes, and it's now the law, upheld by the Supreme Court. I am just curious if anyone else has considered the nationwide revolt when hardworking folks' tax refunds are being confiscated by the I.R.S. Sorry Ma & Kids, no Summer trip to Disney World this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 What a pity, obamacare hadn't gone into effect prior to the election. Could that have had an effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Can you imagine the number of taxpayers with no health insurance, who are not keeping up with the Affordable Care Act, expecting their tax return after a year of hard work, only to have it confiscated by the I.R.S.? And if your return is not enough to cover the no-insurance penalty, it would still be owed. If all of this works as described, can you imagine the outrage building nationwide because of confiscated tax refunds? Any thoughts on this? That's exactly the way it was intended to be. People who have been paying attention for the last four years said that it would do precisely what you describe. You're assuming that un insured are actually paying taxes. Most of them aren't. They are the same ones who re-elected Loki to the Presidency so that they could be free from freedom. The America that we grew up in is gone. the land of the free and home of the brave has been replaced with the land of the dependent and the home of the needy. Black Harris; I stand ready to be chastised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Insurance has been in a slide for sometime. Growing up we had no insurance. When ya got sick, you toughed through it. If it was bad enough you went to the doctor and paid him. If something really bad happened, well, ya dealt with it. May take years to pay off. May kill ya. Sad realities. With society demending workplace benefits and employers capitulating, the cost of health care and insurance has done nothing but rise. This falls largely on individuals not wanting to take personal responsibility. Let me illustrate. My "adult" working career began when I was 12 years old. I must admit, I have grown up very little since. I remember $20-25 out of pocket office visits. By the time I was 18, the whole HMO/PPO thing had taken off. At the time co-pays were like $10. HMO/PPO for me was like $50-70 a month, but still I didn't get it because $10 once or twice a year beats $960 for the whole year. I was also young and invincible. Now, I pay $45 for an office visit and the economics remains the same. My wife and kids we look at it the same way. Why pay $250-300 a month (just for me) every month, when major medical only insurance is fractional and the routine colds and flu visits are $45, granted my doctor is an inlaw, but even at the typical out of pocket rate of $90-$150 why opt for the unneccessary expense of a so-called "health plan?" This is the problem with health insurance. Insurance is dead and maintenance plans are the norm. What if I wanted tires, oil changes, wiper blades, brakes etc etc rolled into the monthly payment of my new Ford work van? First off I'd be laughed at. If they did agree, my van would cost far more than if I simply assumed responsibility for the routine wear and tear maintenance issues myself. But this is what people want: low co-pays, prescription drug coverage and far more visits and coverage than they possibly need. AND they want someone else to pay for it. They do not want to pony up for routine wear and tear of their aging bodies, much less "insurance," and buy into the false sense of security insurance "health plans" provide. Since this is what insured participants have demanded, insurance premiums have risen and everything about the supposed "health care" it covers has risen with it. Cash paying customers at point of service are largely absent from health care. Bureaucrats, accountants and lawyers have taken their place. Doctors no longer treat diseases and afflictions but treat symptoms. Too often attempts to diagnose are no more than a clever ruse to spread liability around or to collect money for unneccessary tests and treatments to pay for overpriced equipment by further screwing over the insurance companies which in turn pass it on to you. In the end they may have a different picture, but I have found in my own experience that most tests, labs and specialist do little to change the the diagnosis or treatment, much less resolve the underlying condition. In the interest of remaining as non-political as possible, I will refrain from addressing the affects of medicare/medicaid, as well as the affects of those getting essentially free health care from emergency rooms, on the overall cost of healthcare and health insurance. Just as I distrust the educational system, so too I distrust the medical system and no we do not vaccinate. Thats only useful for stock animals in factory farms to protect from rampant disease outbreaks and then the food safety remains in question. Then again, perhaps we're all lambs being led to slaughter and it matters not anyway....... Ok, what's my point? The situation is bad. Americans made it that way but you guys are missing the bigger picture and here's the really bad news: John Bohener and the RINO Republicans will cave and help Obama pass an amnesty bill within 6 months. 20 million+ illegals will be added to the insurance/welfare rolls, largely low income illiterates. Then they will be able to vote. The borders WILL NOT be secured. MORE will come for food stamps, subsidized housing, BS education and cell phones. What do you think will happen then? Nothing you own, not even your government/miltary pension, will be safe. Makes ya want to throw up doesn't it? Guess what else? We have failed to discuss the impact to state and local governments, schools and public services. The only encouraging news is we'll have so many folks needing work we can hand dig that Keystone pipeline in just a years time! Yee-haw! It has been discussed how government healthcare can directly affect our second ammendment rights. Doctor questinaires? Insurance questionaires? Both possibilities but aside from the UN Small Arms Treaty, I do believe this looming amnesty will impact our gun rights(and other rights and the way we live our lives) even more. Having a contact in Mexico, I have learned pretty detailed information of the violence running through the country, nothing most of us haven't heard before. Too many would be happy to flee North for safety, security, healthcare, food, housing and safety. Believe me, they will make their voice heard and votes count. Looking forward I see Democrat super majorities in the House and Senate to compliment a liberal Supreme Court. Secession and emigration are reasonable considerations but only one is reasonable to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Help Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Dirty Dan, A good revue, with a few errors. It's not 12 million, last count had it at over 20 million. All of whom have no insurence, and just go to the emergency room, wh3ere, by law they must be treated. Then they don't pay, thus running medicial expences through the roof. Hospitals don't try to help keep cost down either. Go in for a broken bone, or a head injury, and you will be given tests for everything from small pox to hoof-in-mouth. Plus they send, unasked for, as many specialist as possible in to look at you, all of who will tell ya...."your arms broken" which , quite frankly you knew in the first place. Then, they bill out the ying-yang, mostly cause you got a job or something they can attach in a court of law. Meanwhile, the illegals walk away without ever paying one red cent. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Dirty Dan, A good revue, with a few errors. It's not 12 million, last count had it at over 20 million. Correction made. Thanks. I don't claim to know very much. Just strictly observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 "Too often attempts to diagnose are no more than a clever ruse to spread liability around or to collect money for unneccessary tests and treatments to pay for overpriced equipment by further screwing over the insurance companies which in turn pass it on to you. In the end they may have a different picture, but I have found in my own experience that most tests, labs and specialist do little to change the the diagnosis or treatment, much less resolve the underlying condition. Just as I distrust the educational system, so too I distrust the medical system and no we do not vaccinate. Thats only useful for stock animals in factory farms to protect from rampant disease outbreaks and then the food safety remains in question." Wow. Just, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I have thoughts, but promised BH I wouldn't. We're soooooooo screwed ==================================================== Yeah, and without so much as the courtesy of an old fan belt to bite down on while we are bending over taking it up the wazoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The hordes of gimme-pigs and free stuff junkies will overwhelm us, cancel our votes out, and lead to this nation's downfall. "Free stuff" is the new crack epidemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 "Too often attempts to diagnose are no more than a clever ruse to spread liability around or to collect money for unneccessary tests and treatments to pay for overpriced equipment by further screwing over the insurance companies which in turn pass it on to you. In the end they may have a different picture, but I have found in my own experience that most tests, labs and specialist do little to change the the diagnosis or treatment, much less resolve the underlying condition. Just as I distrust the educational system, so too I distrust the medical system and no we do not vaccinate. Thats only useful for stock animals in factory farms to protect from rampant disease outbreaks and then the food safety remains in question." Wow. Just, wow. +1 just wow. Agree with much of the rest, but it is a fact that the lack of vaccinations has led to the return of many diseases that were largely GONE from the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The hordes of gimme-pigs and free stuff junkies will overwhelm us, cancel our votes out, and lead to this nation's downfall. It already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 There are millions of Americans working in jobs which provide no health insurance.... If you're income is around $30,000 per year, the "tax" will be @ $2100.00. Each year after 2014 the "tax" for no insurance increases where it caps out at around $4000.00-$4500.00. This is only part of the surprise in 2014. The act also has numerous eliminations of current deductions that also take affect in 2014. The two biggest taxes being: 1) Elimination of the Mortgage interest deduction. If you own a home and have mortgage interest this deduction goes away resulting in higher tax liability. 2) If you sell your home after 2013 there will be a 3.5% federal tax on the SALE price. Ya think the housing market is bad now, just wait. JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The hordes of gimme-pigs and free stuff junkies will overwhelm us, cancel our votes out, and lead to this nation's downfall. "Free stuff" is the new crack epidemic. Alexis de Tocqueville was apparently right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Alexis de Tocqueville was apparently right. This pretty much sums it up..... A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. -Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747–1813) We have survived for 238 years but our days are now numbered.... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This pretty much sums it up..... A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. -Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747–1813) We have survived for 238 years but our days are now numbered.... JJJ-D :ph34r: And two more from de Tocqueville (a pretty smart guy - read him in high school and never forgot): “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” “Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.” Both are vividly visible in the Affordable Health Care Act. My apologies BH, bottles, I need a double, again...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've often thought that withholding was one of best scams the feds ever allowed. If everyone actually had to pay their taxes instead of having it withheld, we'd have a much different govt. than we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 So if I have private health insurance, am I still screwed? Yeah, just a little differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeweler jim Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 2014 my ear (or some other part of my body)! I'll be shooting "Silver Senior" next year (already qualify)and between my additional insurance costs and reduction in SSI to pay for the "Red White & Blue" card that came in the mail it's going to be $6,000.00 out of pocket even before 2014! Kicked off my current policy, but have to maintain it for the wife and kids and add the supplemental policy for myself. Until the wife turns 65 and I get to drop the policy for her and the kids it will get worse every year. We have entered into living in the old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." Health insurance next year (2013) will be about $18,000.00 and happy to have it as I've seen what can happen without. Number of health issues for us that would have bankrupted us without the health insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. H. O' Sullivan Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Before the Supreme Court "Tax" ruling this year, I wondered why the Affordable Care Act of 2010 provided funding for 16,000 new IRS agents. I guess we should have put 2+2 together and realized that the IRS was going to be the muscle behind this law, enforcing the confiscation of our money. Although I am a self employed rancher, my wife works in the healthcare field here in New Mexico. Her job provides our health insurance. It seems most doctors and hospitals are already seeing a reduction in Medicare and Medicade approvals from the government, probably because those programs are being gutted by the Affordable Care Act. She also hears that the hospitals and primary care physicians and specialists want no part of that new law. It seems we took a medical insurance system that needed some revisions and fixes and totally destroyed it. I guess that's part of the Fundamental Transformation of the United States? FYI, I have two full time ranch employees who I provide housing for, and as part of the compensation I provide a basic health plan for them and their family. Not cheap but they do work which have lots of potential risks, and it's necessary (as long as I can afford it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If obama care is such a good thing for the country then why are he and the band of idiots that wrote and passed it exempt from its provisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfouts Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 What a pity, obamacare hadn't gone into effect prior to the election. Could that have had an effect. The forked tongue snake is smarter than we think. That is exactly why it did not go into effect until after the election. Americans would have been outraged. Like they should be now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 What a truely depressing thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Alexis de Tocqueville was apparently right. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I've often thought that withholding was one of best scams the feds ever allowed. If everyone actually had to pay their taxes instead of having it withheld, we'd have a much different govt. than we do now. I have often argued to peers this is one of the greatest obstacles of tax reform/tax revolt in place. What most workers do not get is the tax liability of employers for their employees. Of course if every business person could say you're fired unless you want to be a 1099 employee...... THAT is an arguable solution! Sure states can refuse to set up statewide insurance exchanges for Obamacare, but since the IRS enforces this law, all that is neccessary to force compliance is twist the nipples of the usinesses and the masses til we all squeel for our states to surrender. I may be wrong, but I recall reading that whatever happens in Euorpe typically happens here 20-30 years later. Just spoke with a friend who recently returned from England for training. He stated the working class are buried to keep up the moocher class and they are outnumbered. A lot of hostility brewing. Funny how the Socialist/Communist movement was built on organizing and building up the working class. Now it seems they only destroy us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The hordes of gimme-pigs and free stuff junkies will overwhelm us, cancel our votes out, and lead to this nation's downfall. "Free stuff" is the new crack epidemic. Already happened.....from here on out, there is 'NO' alternative to whatever the Democrat party turned into....they will rule the roost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So if I have private health insurance, am I still screwed? Well, if you ask nicely, I'm sure they'll find a dirty old fan belt for you to bite on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well, if you ask nicely, I'm sure they'll find a dirty old fan belt for you to bite on..... That'll cost ya extra.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well, if you ask nicely, I'm sure they'll find a dirty old fan belt for you to bite on..... Wait, I'll check and see if a fan belt is part of the protocol for that procedure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Wait, I'll check and see if a fan belt is part of the protocol for that procedure It'll have to go in front of the Panel for review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I am just curious if anyone else has considered the nationwide revolt when hardworking folks' tax refunds are being confiscated by the I.R.S. Seriously doubt any nationwide revolt will happen, the leeches far outnumber hard working people....and young working electorate are being brainwashed with the 'pay your fair share' chants......too bad that 'pay your fair share' nonsense is not defined, nor will it ever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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