J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I want to load some 38’s with black powder, Goex load chart data lists the preferred granulation size of FFF. I have FF that I load in my shotgun shells. Is there any issues loading 38’s with the larger powder? Could it create more gunk from unburned powder and perhaps bind the cylinders? Thank you, JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 FF works fine in 38s . Lube them well and binding will not be a problem with any caliber. Use a tight crimp on the case for complete burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Howdy For a long time, the accepted demarcation between FFg and FFFg was 45 caliber. You could load 45s and 44s with either, FFg or FFFg. Anything bigger, used FFg, anything smaller used FFFg. Fact is, if you want you can use either granulation where ever you want. If all you have is FFg, use it. Even though I normally load 12 gauge with FFg, I am currently using up two cans of Goex FFFg in my shotgun shells because I got it for a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Thank you for the help, I acquired some snakebite bullets lubed up for black powder and wanted to try making smoke with the pistols and rifle this year. Having FFg for the shotgun already; I will use that for the 38’s also. I have used American Pioneer with smokeless bullets in my pistols before. Thought it might be fun trying the real stuff in all the guns at a match. Regards, JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I use FFg for just about every thing except 45-70,that gets Swiss 1 1/2. It helps keep powder ordering and supply manageable. Adios Sgt. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Even though I normally load 12 gauge with FFg, I am currently using up two cans of Goex FFFg in my shotgun shells because I got it for a good price. SACRILIGE! How DARE you! I'd trade you straight up for 2 cans of 2F... 3F goes in my .36cal pistols, 2F in anything over a caliber starting in "4"... But, I prefer "Cartridge"... and since I just scored 20 lbs of it... I'm happy (for awhile)!!! Although discontinued by Goex, "Cartridge" was a blend of 2F & 3F with some special coatings that made it better for cartridge use. At least that was their marketing, and while I can't say that it was true, I did find that it metered well and I had less dust in my machines when using it. Goex NEEDS to bring it back. But, in answer to the OP, in cartridges it means little. 3F will give a bit more "snap" to your .38s, As it will in .45s! Go figure! Who'd a thunk it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 But, in answer to the OP, in cartridges it means little. 3F will give a bit more "snap" to your .38s, As it will in .45s! Go figure! Who'd a thunk it! Howdy Again When I was just starting out with Black Powder in cartridges I did a lot of reading. Mike Venturino stated that for any given caliber, well 45 Colt anyway, all other things being equal, changing from FFg to FFFg would boost velocity by about 60-100 fps. The smaller grains burn a bit faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Have you noticed what granulation the SASS Black Powder Standard uses? Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cactus Cris SASS#2790 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think the only reason that 2f is not used more is that it tends to hang up in the loading funnel in a reloading press. If you are "dipping" your powder then It isn't an issue. I use 3f in everything inc. the shot gun. Keeps it simple. Will use 2f in 38/55 & 45/70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I use FFg in 12-ga and .45s. I use FFFg is .38 and .32-20. I sue either in .38-40. The FFg leaves the chamber and cartridge slightly more sooty showing that the combustion is not as hot as FFFg. I suspect that the velocity is 50-100 fps lower, concurring with MV's commentus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 You can get more FFFg than FFg in the case and it compacts better. Velocities are higher with FFFg and it burns cleaner than FFg of the same manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 ...I am loading my .38s with Ffg, Schuetzen Black Powder... ...ain't had no issues other than my own head space and timin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I use 3F Goex from .38 Spec up to .45-90. Works well in SG too. Cleaner burn and higher MV. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Forsyth #72674 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 ...I am loading my .38s with Ffg, Schuetzen Black Powder... ...ain't had no issues other than my own head space and timin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Matt McCord, SASS #24683 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I want to load some 38’s with black powder, Goex load chart data lists the preferred granulation size of FFF. I have FF that I load in my shotgun shells. Is there any issues loading 38’s with the larger powder? Could it create more gunk from unburned powder and perhaps bind the cylinders? Thank you, JSS I have never noticed a difference. Last year, I bought a bunch of Goex Cowboy when Graf & Sons was trying to get rid ot it. Cowboy BP was a mix of FF and FFF, if memory serves, and I use it in 38, 45, and shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktown Kid Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 i have finaly got to the point all rounds useing 777 2f, 12g, 38,45... easy and just one powder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Jack Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I have us BP in cartridges only once years ago. I do use it for C&B .36 and .58 muzzleloader. I use FFF for both. Tried FF in .58 and found I had to use more of it to get same results and had more fouling in barrel quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I much prefer FFFG to FFg for even .44s and .45s as it burns much cleaner in all instances .... I even use 3f in my shotgun shells both 16 and 12ga. burns cleaner and gives more thump ........ And further if you screen powder from the 1880s you will find that the .45 Colt and .38-40 at least contained powder that closely matches our Modern FFFg and not our Modern FFg ... And as a point of intrest old time ballistics can't be matched using FFg but can be matched with FFFg and the right powder Brand .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I was taught years ago by an old experienced mountain man that the dividing line between ffg and fffg was .45 cal. If the caliber started with a 3 or less, you used fffg. If it started with a 5 or more, you used ffg. If it started with a 4, either was apprpriate. I've pretty much stayed with that line of thinking. My C&B revolvers, .38 specials, 44-40s, and 45-70s get fffg Grafs (or Scheutzen). My .54 cal Tryon Rifle and 12 ga get ffg. I've tried Cartridge and Cowboy and saw no appreciable improvement in performance that would justify the increased cost (some would say I'm cheap; but I prefer frugal). I've found that the fffg Grafs shoots much cleaner than any of the Goex granulations. My C&Bs and conversions can go a whole 3 day match without binding up. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 ..... (some would say I'm cheap; but I prefer frugal). Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Frugal is good, I like frugal... maybe it's my Scottish blood. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Frugal is good, I like frugal... maybe it's my Scottish blood. Snakebite I believe that's where mine came from Fingers (Clan Wallace) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 +2 Fingers We Be of the self same Clan .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Giles Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 3f in my cap n ball; 3f in my 38 Specials; 2f in my 20 gauge - but switching to 3f when its all used up. Like others have said, 3f seems to be cleaner. Goex for me, as that's what I can get locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I use 2F in everything, .38, 44-40, and .45. If you happen to find a paticular powder that seems cleaner or gives better performance in your guns, go for it. BP is often about trying things..... I like the Schuetzen as it seems a little cleaner and the remaing Goex Cowboy is getting used up for shotgun. Much of the non-cowboy BP wisdom is not applicable to us as it is for farther distances and requires much more accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Is there any issues loading 38’s with the larger powder? Could it create more gunk from unburned powder and perhaps bind the cylinders? JS ... the Goex Loading Data is not a Hodgdon product. The data comes from TESTED loading recipes that were prepared by Curtis's & Harvey - the best BP ever made before they went out of business in Ardeer, Scotland. Hodgdon got the data from C&H when they were selling their powder back in the early 1970's. Use the data on the table of FFFg for your 38's. PS: a FFFg grade of black powder has smaller grains. The 'F's go in reverse ... Fg grains are larger grains re: Creating gunk and binding ... I have yet to find unburned grains of BP in the all the grades of powder. BP foul is primarily potassium bicarbonate not unburned grains of BP with minute micron size pieces of unburned charcoal. The better the powder - the less unburned charcoal Binding of cylinders is a factor of lube used. The better the formulation of a lube used, the less binding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Cowboy BP was a mix of FF and FFF, if memory serves, Mean Matt - close but no cigar ... FFg and FFFg are different grades of powder using a general standard of different grain sizes that are retained or pass through certified laboratory sieve screens to produce a given burn rate for that grade of powder. Goex concocted "Cowboy" to produced a burn rate for 'Cowboys'. The sieve ratios of grains sizes for Goex Cowboy is: 20 mesh screen - 32.9% retained 30 mesh screen - 64.9% retained Through - 2.2% Here are the sieve ratios for Goex FFg and FFFg: Goex 2Fg, 99NO03B 20 mesh - 79.2% retained 30 mesh - 20.8% retained Goex 3Fg, 99JY20C 70.8% retained on a 30 mesh. 26.2% retained on a 40 mesh. 3.0% thru 40 mesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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