EOT 2011- Brother King

[Misty Moonshine]

It seems like when you're in business everyone else can run it better, make better decisions... it's always easier to run someone else's business. That said, it does pay to look back and wonder what happened that caused business to drop off so badly... being happy with 350, 400, maybe 600 and all 14 spectators is a tough pill to swallow. Especially after years of 25,000 spectators and 800+ shooters.

 

Our ACTUAL final numbers are as follows: 153 Conventioneers, 100 registered Guests, and 703 Shooters; for a total of 956 registered participants. Our gate totals for the event hit 2833 people, not including anyone under the age of 12 (and the kiddos came in 12 packs). Saying there was 14 spectators is simply unfair.

Sadly, the years of 25000 spectators are long gone, Brother King. The population demographics of rural New Mexico simply can’t compare to that of southern California.

 

I was a vendor this year. The #1 rule of retailing is TRAFFIC.. then there's #2...TRAFFIC..and then Rule #3... It just wasn't there and the indoor tent even had "air conditioning". We did just about break even and yes, I got to shoot and was therefore often away from the booth much of each day.

 

“therefore often away from the booth much of each day.” Lends to the conclusion that you may not be the best authority to speak on the amount of traffic present.

 

Compare that to WR and 750 shooters. I was busy from the moment I stopped shooting- with people waiting for me. The weather was just OK- chilly most mornings- and admittedly better for our products than 95 sweltering degrees and blowing dust devils. Costs were roughly the same- but we sold out of 5 sizes at WR and came home with a backlog. That made a nice profit. Obviously no one can do anything about the weather ....BUT

 

Selling coats/jackets/vests must have certainly presented some difficulty in the weather we had, in comparison to that of Winter Range.

 

Spectators: If you want spectators then you have to give them something to watch and someplace safe from which to watch it. Neither of those have happened at Founders and locals told me they won't bother to go because "you can't see anything anyway." Our posse shooed at least 5 people off the berms.

 

Safety of all attendees from shooters to public spectators will ALWAYS be our top priority at any event. There simply MUST be a concern for all about uncontrolled access to the immediate vicinity of the shooting. Only registered shooters, match officials, and registered media representatives have access to the range area (that is, inside the berms.) Obviously, the berms themselves are absolutely off-limits to everyone. This is a matter of SAFETY and will not be reconsidered in terms of spectator access.

 

 

 

Public: There was one billboard on I-40 giving exit 181. From there you were on your own unless you knew to look for the little SASS cowboy on a sign as small as a garage sale at the turn. From there another sign 2 miles after the turn on the wrong side of the road that pointed onward. There was no sign to turn again at San Tomas which is almost 1 lane and becomes dirt after the BIG SIGN to SASS.

 

There were 2 billboards on I-40, one east and one west of Edgewood. Signage has been an issue for EOT since its move to New Mexico. The fact of the matter is, each year we place over 25 signs (not to include billboards) along the route to Founders Ranch, under permit of Bernalillo County, and each year they are taken down, stolen, or just plain come up missing. This is an understandable concern, and a battle we fight each and every year. Any suggestions?

Let me talk a little bit about advertising for EOT. There were 20,000 EOT Rack cards in total that were distributed throughout the year. EOT Ads (with clear directions) were placed in 26 print media venues, over 200 press releases were issued, EOT was listed in 25 event websites and event listings, and over 1000 posters were printed and “hung up”. There were radio spots and digital billboards throughout the Albuquerque Metro Area.

Our gate attendance continues to rise year after year....and we will continue to cast a wider net each year.

 

 

Vendors: This is the first ever show I've ever paid money to do that had no Vendor's Listing in the very large, magazine sized program. WOW... that's saying something since we've done as many as 120 shows a year since 1986. I asked several vendors if anyone had come by to thank them for coming or ask if they needed anything. They may still be laughing.

 

Part of the problem with a Vendor listing is the last-minute mind set of the majority of our vendors/exhibitors. You, yourself Brother King didnt provide us with a confirmation, registration form, OR deposit until your arrival at Founders Ranch. What we did do, however, was have detailed maps of vendors and their locations that were available at several locations to include the SASS Mercantile, SASS Admin, Information Booth, Waddie Shack, and Front Gate.

 

There were several of us (myself included) that stopped by and talked to EVERY exhibitor there- less 2. You were one of the ones I didn’t catch because the 4 times I went to the indoor tent with the sole purpose of meeting you and see if you needed anything, your booth was unmanned and I couldn’t find you. Tuesday evening at 6pm, the Happy Jack Saloon was the venue as I personally hosted a Vendor Reception that boasted a packed house- there was food and drinks, handshakes and huge thank you’s- our opportunity to officially welcome all vendors to EOT and to thank each and every one for their coming. Sounds like you missed that as well.

 

 

Parking: The Waddies do a great job. The trams are adequate, but have little 'period' connection and it's a dusty/raining/windy ride. Folks in town (Edgewood) told me they won't park up in the "mud/dust bowl and walk or tram-it all the way down to see 'nothing' for shooting." Then there were three people I spoke to who had no idea there were vendors and many that didn't even know it was going on.

 

All I know to say is that they must live under a rock. I spend at least 8 months of every year doing presentations, attending community functions, sponsoring local civic organizations, and exhibiting to promote EOT both locally and in the Albuquerque Metro area. In the East Mountains alone, there were over 7500 EOT Rack cards distributed and around 500 posters went up.

 

Water: A dying man... would just die... and the three ambulances I saw were all due to heat/ dehydration. Maybe that's an exaggeration or a misunderstanding. Sure- they should have paid $ and bought water- remember there are no public fountains. The ranch is dry and has been for some time. I suspect that it was sold/purchased without a good understanding of western/Rockies water law. Yes, it's a drought this year and I'm sure that dust control was out of the question.

 

Absolutely dehydration is a real concern we are faced with at hot outdoor events- couple that with the elevation issues that folks arent used to and there are bound to be a few incidents. We are constantly and consistently educating and cautioning the real effects of not drinking enough water to all of our attendees. It is stressed at opening ceremonies, in the official shooters program, and at the gate for every single person that comes through it.

True, there are no “water fountains” available- but there WAS drinking water....everywhere. There was an ice cooler full of water on every stage, as well as coolers stationed at other locations throughout town- Vendors had water, the SASS Mercantile had water....SASS/EOT provided 530 cases of water (that’s 16,960 bottles!) and went through over 800 lbs of ice to keep it cold.

Dust control seemed to behoove us all. Our attempt at watering the “streets” evaporated in about, oh...5 seconds and the dirt tornadoes ensued. We realize the dust was a horrible experience (for us as well!) and are looking into some ground treatments/additives such as calcifying the town for events in the future.

 

Security: Didn't lose anything and didn't lose any sleep over it. The Waddies are patrolling, but the only other choice is to push a cart up 8 rows of trailers with a 100' elevation gain or waiting for the tram, which angers many. As a vendor the only choice is to load up the truck and drive it back to the trailer only to reverse the process in the AM. People don't know this, but vendors lose most at night- not when everyone is shopping.

 

Our security team is thorough, conscientious, and dedicated. There are folks on patrol literally 24 hours a day.

 

 

Camping: well... it's a flat spot... but compare that to Sparta, IL with 500+ hookups and, yes, it's difficult to refit a tough choice. And especially one with no shower/ restroom facilities. I'm sure that wind-tipped Porta-johns made more than one person wonder if they were Mother Nature's next practical joke. But, how about portable shower facilities? I know it's been mentioned many times. God help you if you stayed late and had to use the John's in the dark.

 

We do not misrepresent the conditions for camping at EOT in any way.

Utilities and infrastructure at Founders Ranch is certainly a work in progress...couple that with the horrific winds- even the 3 foot stakes holding the porta-johns in place weren’t enough... Lighting the porta-johns up at night is also on our list for next year- as well as some rented portable shower facilities!

 

Facades: Nothing new... except in town, but isn't this the World Championships? Our local club, Pawnee Station boasts far better facades, shooting platforms, wider board walks... at the World Championships we actually staged open/ empty rifles on the run right on top of a barrel. An RO can't be in/on the facade with the shooter without inhibiting their movement. One of the best shooters I know was MDQ'ed attempting to re-stage a rifle over a fence rail onto a skinny little table when the butt caught a loaded/holstered pistol. I personally watched another top shooter almost lose a loaded gun when he tripped on the steps. Maybe a trip to Winter Range is in order here? Or.. the Texicans, or Land Run, or Hell On Wheels or CAC.. well- you get the idea.

 

Building, repairing, and maintaining props and facades for END of TRAIL is certainly a formidable task- one that took hundreds and hundreds of man hours- did we get them ALL in tip top shape? No we didn’t. We hear you!

As every stage was a re-visit from END of TRAIL’s past- stages are stages are stages are stages. There will always be a “darn we shoulda done it this way” as well as an “it’s not my fault-it’s the stage!” aspect when planning/writing/executing stages.

 

 

Attitude: In the words of one shooter, "they act like I should be damn happy they haven't run me off yet. Compare that to shooting 'Comin' At Cha or WR' where they're damn happy you came and they make damn sure you'll come again. NO GUNS IN TOWN at 5:00... but you can't get a beer unless you're a VIP. Who is more VIP than the shooters who pay the tab?"

 

This is truly a punch in the gut to hear that someone/anyone felt that way- I can assure you that every single person involved in this event- volunteer and otherwise- were DAMN THRILLED that each and every single person there had taken the time out of their lives to come and enjoy what we had to offer- and we work diligently to make sure everyone has a fantastic time- and wants to come back next year!

As far as getting a beer goes~ the Belle Union Saloon as well as the Gem Saloon opened up every evening offering beer, wine, sodas and entertainment...and EVERYONE was invited!

 

In the words of a dear friend who has shot EOT years before from Norco to Founders.... "never again"... and that's a crying shame because on questioning his reasons; they weren't all facility based. "10's of Thousands are being raised for more buildings (church, etc) and the bays suck, the facades are 2nd rate. Hell, I can't even wash my hands! My trailer has enough dirt to grow tomatoes. My wife won't come here anymore because there's nothing for her to do and no place for her to get out of the weather and watch. Thank God they got new targets this year, but unfortunately the S/G targets are the worst I've ever seen. As a posse marshal too many easy calls were questioned and overturned. This is the World Championships and we had more left/right no double taps than at any monthly I've shot in 10 years. It's not that the stages were hateful- but I can't remember a single one that I thought, 'wow- that was neat'."

 

Those are truly sad words to hear, friends.

-First of all, please allow me to address the Cowboy Memorial Chapel and the fundraisers associated with its construction. The Chapel project is a member-based dream and project- coordinated and managed by a group of volunteers and supported by thousands of fellow members. SASS plays the role of encouragement and administration- and every single donation and every last red cent goes directly to the sole purpose of its becoming a reality.

-There were hand washing stations all over the ranch; complete with hot water (thanks to all that sunshine!), soap, and paper towels- heck, I washed my hands often!

-Personally, I was considering planting potatoes- welcome to the DESERT!

- Lets talk about the berms/bays and their comparison to Norco- EOT was held in Norco for 15 years (not 25)- before that it was held in Coto de Caza. The shooting facilities at Norco were nowhere near ideal in the beginning- it took years and years of continuous improvements, planning and execution to get them adequate; and that facility was an existing range! The first several years in Norco, there were only 4 bays, facing in the opposite direction, and the berms were composed of composted manure- complete with spontaneous combustion! There was no drainage in place, and when it rained everyone had the pleasure of stomping around and dragging their carts through manure muck! FUN!

Founders Ranch in New Mexico continues to improve yearly- and will continue to. Having started with alot of flat land, there’s been tons of earth moved to achieve shooting bays, camping rows, roads, and so on. It is a revolving door of needed improvements, one that we will stay dedicated to for however many years it takes to get everything perfect! There are obvious issues with funding, man-power, and TIME! We are working with a much larger facility than we had in Norco- and everything is being made from scratch!

-Again, the stages were a revisit of past EOT stages...

 

Maybe it's time to take care of the horse what brung ya. That horse is the shooters and those family/friends who support them- and worry about the town/ church/ etc. a little later? In the meantime, it's left a huge opening for someone else to take the action. That's the nature of competition. I'd say WR, CAC, US OPEN, are beginning to do just that, with meals, raffles, entertainment, side matches, Wild Bunch, really nice awards all included to the shooter and free admission to the spectator, which will leave the World Championships as an asterisk on more and more shooters lists when making choices of where to go.

 

First of all- we all tip our hats to the OUTSTANDING job that WR, CAC, US OPEN, as well as countless other matches/events do every single year. They are simply phenomenal folks that make those events successful and wonderful for all!

END of TRAIL chooses to offer a virtual smorgasbord of options to our attendees- although we have considered an “all-inclusive” option, we fear the cost would be prohibitive. We prefer to leave the choices and costs associated with those choices in the hands of those wishing to participate. Want to shoot side matches? You can- but not all shooters have to incur the cost if they choose not to...same with Wild Bunch.

Every registered shooter received a goody bag as well as their door prize- the prize pool consisted of over $500K worth of merchandise, guns, ammunition.

ALL entertainment at END of TRAIL is included- and we offered non-stop entertainment all over the town, all day long, from Thursday through Sunday. There were fantastic shows offered each evening by Syd Masters & The Swing Riders on Thursday, A riveting performance of Kid Rio’s Old Gunfighter Show followed by a spectacular night time Wild West Show Friday, and a stomping great time on Saturday with Frederick Jackson Turner and Big Red Sky Saturday night....just to name a few. Let’s put the entertainment schedule into perspective- END of TRAIL spent just over 30K in entertainment this year; all for you!

 

 

Let's face it- NO MONEY in SASS returns to the shooters. SASS is a FOR profit organization. Many/most won't donate to a FOR PROFIT company to provide facilities that use will be sold/ packaged in some way back to them as customers when the shooting they came for is no better than what they have any weekend at home. Just being the "World Championships" only 'draws' so far. For many it appears that the over-arching attitude is one of "PAY FOR PRIVILEGE" with VIP parking, VIP entertainment, VIP seating, VIP recognition, and a constant 'nickling' for raffles, donations, etc. You'd think it was a church social.

 

Yes, SASS is a business. Businesses strive for profit- just as yours does. The membership organization that is SASS is a business. We make no apologies for that.

END of TRAIL, as well as any other match held at Founders Ranch each year, is different altogether. All proceeds from EOT are put right back into the Founders Ranch town and into the SASS Museum and Cowboy Action Shooting Hall of Fame.

There is no “Pay for Privilege”- do we have VIP’s? Absolutely! Do we treat them as such? OF COURSE we do! They park a little closer, and we may say a special thanks to them via a microphone. There is no special VIP entertainment at EOT- and the only VIP seating that is reserved at any function is for the Wild Bunch and their wives. Trust me, Judge Roy Bean and all the others deserve a front row seat- I can’t believe for a second that any single member in attendance would argue that fact.

Founders Ranch is not a playground for only a select few. Year round the facility is used by many shooters and SASS members. We are working to constantly build and improve the property for ALL SASS members to enjoy for many years to come.

Regardless of what many may think, no one is lining their pockets with your shooters fees. The suggestion of such is disheartening to say the least. This organization, this “SASS Family” was built upon integrity & honesty- The Cowboy Way.

 

Did I have fun? Yes.... if you got this far, you know that's not the point of this post. I, for one expect quite a bit more for my $2500, but you can bet that $1.50 buckle is going on my shotgun belt. This is now a world of increasing choices, more difficult $ decisions and added value everywhere. It's not about the weather, the economy, the location or the targets.... it's about the value, stupid. And those venues/clubs/shoots that continually offer value to the shooter are sold out way in advance even in a tough economy or location.

 

Stupid?!.....

 

All I will say about the awards is this perspective- EOT 2011 spent nearly 20K in AWARDS alone.

$2500? Shooter fees started at $200..….

 

Vendor fees for the weeklong event are $300 for an outdoor tent and $450 for inside the air conditioned, carpeted tent- and that price includes structure- a very reasonable fee.

 

Of course, I realize you (as do all attendees, vendors & otherwise) incur additional costs to attend END of TRAIL- but to throw out a $2500 price tag only feeds the ridiculous rumors and speculation I mentioned above.

 

The view changes depending on what side of the fence you’re on, and information and education is priceless. I truly thank you, Brother King, for your openness regarding your experience at END of TRAIL in all aspects. It is every single member that matters to me, and I sincerely work tirelessly to make SASS and EOT as successful and wonderful as possible for every single member we have! There will always be roadblocks and challenges along the way, but as with anything in life, we learn as we go and roll with the punches. Now, I can’t necessarily say that your punches didn’t hurt, they did! I lost sleep over it- it’s just hard not to take it personally when you try so hard and invest so much in something.

ALL feedback is welcomed! If we don’t hear from you, we don’t see the view from your side of the fence!

 

Have suggestions? Information? Feedback?

Post it here, or contact me directly at misty@sassnet.com, 505-843-1320, or PM through the Wire.

I look forward to it!

With the upmost respect,

Misty Moonshine

[Grizzly Dave]

Misty, thanks for providing a view from the other side of the fence.

 

Grizz

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

since I said it on the other thread....

 

Howdy Misty Moonshine - glad to see ya on the Wire...hope ya come back and visit more often...

 

G (will get to an EoT someday...it seems it can only get better from what your posts reveal) G ~

[Goldsmith SASS #29116]

Thank you for responding. There are always two sides to anything and was pleased to hear the other side. Again no mudslinging just facts and a lot to digest again thanks for responding.

 

 

Goldsmith

[Blackwater 53393]

Misty, you shouldn't look at B.K.'s critique as a kick in the teeth. If a little blunt it still was respectful and his own comments were not intended to demean or browbeat anyone. As one who is responsible for some of the same duties on a smaller scale at two annual matches, I've received my share of comments with respect to our matches. Much of what he offered was repeated from other shooters and he merely passed the thought along. I try to help make the next shoot better, and no reasonable comment, critique, or request is ignored. We look at every one as an opportunity to make it a better match.

 

I think we all want EOT to be a success, I'd like to attend, shoot, and vend myself some day. His $2,500 expense estimate is by NO MEANS unreasonable. From my home, pulling my trailer and gear, at $3.50 a gallon for gasoline, (a conservative number) it would easily cost me $1,400.00 in fuel alone. Add to that $200.00 for the shoot, $300.00 for a vending spot, match fee for my son who works for me and shoots is another $200.00, and we haven't bought a bite to eat or paid for tires or a room or his wages, (this is his livelyhood as well as mine) or any other incidental business related expenses. Well, you see where I'm coming from. This year I've tried to go where I'm invited and mostly where there are no vendor fees. This seems to be the route many vendors are going, and the way that some top matches are attracting vendors. Even at that I'm still looking at that $2,500.00 figure at least. I usually donate door prises and try to support the clubs that support me. One hand wipes the other, or it takes at least two to shake hands if you know what I mean.

 

Hope this helps to take the sting out. I don't think seriously that any of us want's EOT to not be successful. Please don't take any of this personally, any of you who worked so hard to make it happen! Like I said in a previous post, sometimes you miss a thing or two.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Thanks for responding. $500K in prizes? Are ya sure? Doing the division, that's some "Price is right" ya got there.

[Manatee]

The economic model for CAS vending has changed dramatically over the past few years. Unfortunately, I don't see it turning around within the next year or two. That is not an EOT problem.

 

I appreciate this counter-point to BK's thread.

[Texas Jim Henry, SASS #20616]

I felt Brother King's original post was thoughtful and articulate. I think the same can be said of Misty Moonshine's reply. I thank both of them for taking the time to write down their thoughts.

 

I was excited enough about the move of EoT to New Mexico to plunk down the fee for a Gold Founder's Club membership, so I think I can rightfully claim to have some "skin in the game." EoT at Founder's Ranch, as Misty points out, is a work in progress. I've been to all seven there, and I can honestly say that there has been demonstrable improvement each year. I expect that will be the case on into the future.

 

This year, the weather was not our friend. But you know what... Mother Nature can do that do you sometimes. Last year, New Mexico was about as green as I had ever seen it; this year, it was the driest on record. So you do what any cowboy would do, you cope the best you can and get on about your business.

 

There will always be ways for any event to be better, and I won't take Brother King to task for pointing them out. However, I think we need to give SASS the credit that is due for working to continually make their "product" better. Thank you, Misty, for all you and your compadres do to make EoT a reality.

 

I will say - for all its shortcomings (real or imagined) - I have yet to have a bad time at EoT, and I would hope every SASS member makes an effort to experience it at least once. Personally, I hope to keep going as long as I can stand up and pull a trigger!

 

Regards, TJH

[Slick McClade]

If EOT had 703 shooters this year like you said and say they paid $150 each that totals to $105,450 just from shooters alone. Not counting the venders fees of 153 people at say $250 each that totals to $38,250. Not sure what the public was charded but lets say 2833 people at $2.00 each totals to $5666. I might be wrong but the 100 guest badges(which are most members of a paying shooters family) is about say $30 each that totals to $3,000. And I'm sure I missed something, but lets go with the above numbers for a grand total of $152,366.00 for E.O.T 2011. If SASS spent only the meantioned $20,000 on shooter prizes then what happened to the other $132,366?? Thank you to SASS for putting out the water, but what bottles I drank had a sponser label on it, so was it bought or donated?? I think most people are just wondering why SASS cant give more back to the shooters that put this money in your hands. Spend the money on more shade, nicer stages, better prizes and make everyone want to come back for more the next year. I know of a regional shoot that draws more shooters than EOT, but could it be that they give more back to the shooters and give better prizes????? If SASS spent the another $66,183.00 on the shooters that would still leave SASS the other $66,183 that's some serious money for two weeks pay!!!!

[WymoreWrangler SASS 46187L]

Slick, I'm one that hasn't attend EOT, but in crunching your numbers, you've forgotten the Mortage, Insurance, Taxes on the property. Plus Insurance and how about the electric bill. It takes money to run a great shoot, but there is so much behind the scene expenses that many of us forget...

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Actually, as a for profit business, SASS doesn't have to explain where their money goes. I saw the awards given out and I thought they were very nice. I wish I'd have gotten one.

That $2500 is pretty much what I came up with when I added up what we spent on EVERYTHING for the week. Maybe more. My biggest complaint is with overpriced vendor food.

There's not much SASS can do about the weather, so why bitch about THAT? It could have been worse! (over 100 and NO wind!)

[Slick McClade]

Slick, I'm one that hasn't attend EOT, but in crunching your numbers, you've forgotten the Mortage, Insurance, Taxes on the property. Plus Insurance and how about the electric bill. It takes money to run a great shoot, but there is so much behind the scene expenses that many of us forget...

 

 

WW.

I own a shooting facility, so I know the expense that goes along with running it. I put on a match in our area and with only taking 150 shooters at $100 per head, it includes the following, all sidematches at NO extra cost,3 meals at NO extra cost, and very NICE two tone rodeo quality buckles to shooters 1-3 in every cat. For side match awards this year we are giving away over 30 stag handle screw knives to the winners. And when it's all said and done I still can pay the insurance, electric and water from what's left over.

Why cant SASS at EOT take better care of the shooters with over $152,000 taken in at ONE match?? This is just my opinion on EOT. And until "you" go out and see what our money has been spent on, you want be able to see that is NOT the average Shooter.

We have one other club in North Louisiana (Cypress Creek Cowboys) including mine that would make the stages at EOT look like terrible.One would just expect more for the World Championship of Cowboy Action Shooting.I have spent about $10,000 on my entire range including the targets and I can tell you its first Class!!!! My whole point to this is SASS/EOT can do much much better for the shooter with the money they have coming in if they really wanted to. And one other thing we forgot about the funds from the mounted shooting.

Also lets say SASS has 40,000 active paying annual members with dues @ $35 each that's another $1,400,000.00 per year along with everything else.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

WymoreWrangler is right...plus you have the marketing and the salaries of those that run the match including year round duties.

 

Slick...I am sure you do a great job doing your match, but it probably isn't close to the expense and headache of running an international event.

 

GG

[Tucker T Fudpucker]

Having been a knife maker and attending six to ten shows per year I can tell you that attendance is down everywhere .Since I make every knife on my table I have to pick the larger venues to attend as the knife making take a great deal of time. I was at a major show two weeks ago and the buyers the I have sold to for years were not there and when i made the down payment for next years table the fee had gone up by $100 brause the cost of the exibit hall had incresaed. I know that there are VIP perks at every large show and there should be because these are the folks that support the show with monitary donations and donations of products or have been vendors for many years. Being a first time vendor at EOT thoroghly enjoyed my stay even with the dust, wind and heat and hope to return next year. Sale, as at other shows, were slow but I expected that but to the economy but the contacts that I made will pay off in the future with phone calls wanting informationg.

 

Now to the show staff, I must say that from my first call to Misty wanting information about vendor space, cost and recomendations for motels I was treated with a willingness to help in any way possible. I even called the week before EOT and requested electricity Misty worked to get me in the right spot since not all areas have outlets. When we arrived i was greeted by her and everyone else that i delt with with a smile and hand shake. During the weekend I was approached and thanked General Grant and his wife, Coyote Calhoun, Judge Roy Bean and many others. Were there problems, yes but they handled. Knowing that my cost are up and spending down I still plan on attending as many shows as possible. The general public will attend as their funds will allow and all that we can hope for is that they decide that their plans include us,

 

 

Tucker T Fudpucker

[Madd Mike #8595]

I had the pleasure of meeting misty moonshine, many times this year at EOT

she was always working, from dawn to dark

I even waved her down on side match day, when we needed something on the bay

she had what we needed, pronto like

 

thanks for the reply

 

the way I see it

SASS members could (i said could) think of supporting the "whole of SASS"

that would mean EOT as well

and come to the understanding, that it is a work in progress

I was a construction manager for years, I can understand the behind the curtain stuff, man hours / budgets / permit headaches / inspections and their related delays

 

without SASS

what do we got

[Anvil Al #59168]

LOL... I didn't want to be accused of exaggerating...

 

Gosh, Golly, Gee Whiz... talk about a kick in the gut, Misty. There I was minding my own business all by myself at the bar with all the other vendors at the vendor party where I introduced myself to you. There you were working behind the bar, lookin' all blonde and tall and cute. You even poured me a beer... poured me another one, we had a lovely conversation. Well....at least I THOUGHT we had a lovely conversation...

 

You did come by the booth, and unfortunately I was busy with a customer. I did wave and thought the smile was meant for someone you knew.

 

So then when I saw you at the party and offered to buy you a drink, I was kinda returning the kind favor. I was certainly flattered that you accepted (thinking you knew me and all).

 

It's a fair mark and easy turn to assert that my post is all about whether or not I wrote enough tickets at EOT. I think that an unbiased reader would disagree that is the point of the OP. If my concern was whether my stack of tickets was 1" or 3" then I certainly wouldn't have come by myself and shot Wild Bunch, Main Match and shopped most of the vendors.

 

Any bidness fool knows that if the main concern is writing business then you probably don't want to shoot Sun, Mon, Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat, shop the other days and go to the Awards presentation on Sunday....just wouldn't make a ton of sense would it? What that did allow is plenty of time to talk to many, many people, make new friends, re-kindle old acquaintances, put faces to names, personalities to SASS WAHR personas, share stories, compare notes, have dinner, drinks and good times with friends old and new.

 

What one MIGHT glean from the OP and my other posts in the thread is appreciation to the WB for the opportunity as well as the concern that if it continues to ignore the shooter then those days may well be limited. Yes, to answer your question (in re: STUPID?). It's always about the value.

 

Is the World Championship the best shoot in Cowboy Action Shooting? That's the question that should drive everything done at EOT in my view and the view of the shooters that I've heard from in response to the OP.

 

I better stop now and get to the store for some Just For Men.

 

 

Hope you don't mind BK. Just thought this should be over here on this thread also.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Mike,

In paying our annual dues we are supporting SASS.

In encouraging/promoting CAS to new shooters we are supporting SASS.

By teaching new shooters clinics and/or RO classes we are supporting SASS.

By attending monthly and/or annual matches we are supporting SASS.

By being a club officer or worker bee, we are supporting SASS.

By attending state, regional or larger matches we are supporting SASS.

By spending one or two thousand dollars to attend EOT we are supporting SASS.

 

BUT, when we spend all that time and money attending the world championship and we see something that needs to be improved upon and we discuss it and in some cases present solutions we are NOT trying to undermine SASS or EOT. We want it to be the biggest and best match in the world. We expect it to be the biggest and best match in the world. We should be able to expect it to be the biggest and best match in the world. When it's not, some of us will point out areas that need improvement...and some will simply not return.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I had the pleasure of meeting misty moonshine, many times this year at EOT

she was always working, from dawn to dark

I even waved her down on side match day, when we needed something on the bay

she had what we needed, pronto like

 

thanks for the reply

 

the way I see it

SASS members could (i said could) think of supporting the "whole of SASS"

that would mean EOT as well

and come to the understanding, that it is a work in progress

I was a construction manager for years, I can understand the behind the curtain stuff, man hours / budgets / permit headaches / inspections and their related delays

 

without SASS

what do we got

 

So because I haven't particpated in Eot does that mean I don't support SASS as a whole? ~ hogwash!

 

...and just because SASS folks voice concerns or discrepencies about Eot they are not supporting SASS as a whole? - X2 hogwash!

 

GG ~

[Madd Mike #8595]

Mike,

In paying our annual dues we are supporting SASS.

In encouraging/promoting CAS to new shooters we are supporting SASS.

By teaching new shooters clinics and/or RO classes we are supporting SASS.

By attending monthly and/or annual matches we are supporting SASS.

By being a club officer or worker bee, we are supporting SASS.

By attending state, regional or larger matches we are supporting SASS.

By spending one or two thousand dollars to attend EOT we are supporting SASS.

 

BUT, when we spend all that time and money attending the world championship and we see something that needs to be improved upon and we discuss it and in some cases present solutions we are NOT trying to undermine SASS or EOT. We want it to be the biggest and best match in the world. We expect it to be the biggest and best match in the world. We should be able to expect it to be the biggest and best match in the world. When it's not, some of us will point out areas that need improvement...and some will simply not return.

 

 

yer right

 

pointing out the areas that need improvement is fine

 

perhaps doing it on the wire

where wire riders can feed off the blood in the water, might not be in the best interest for SASS overall

mileage always varies

 

I cant really see what all the complaining is about

its a week long shoot / party / shopping and intertainment venue

how is that NOT taking care of the shooters

I guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles

 

my only complaint was the dust, and that dust storm covered two states I drove through

both gettin there and leaving there

 

how they gunna fix that

 

when the post was ment for improvement of EOT

and along the way it turns into

my shoot is better then yours

geeeeese

that takes me back to playground talk 50 years ago

 

SASS makes improvements every year that I have attended

 

carry on

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Mike,

In paying our annual dues we are supporting SASS.

In encouraging/promoting CAS to new shooters we are supporting SASS.

By teaching new shooters clinics and/or RO classes we are supporting SASS.

By attending monthly and/or annual matches we are supporting SASS.

By being a club officer or worker bee, we are supporting SASS.

By attending state, regional or larger matches we are supporting SASS.

By spending one or two thousand dollars to attend EOT we are supporting SASS.

....

 

Thank you....

 

GG ~

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

yer right

 

pointing out the areas that need improvement is fine

 

perhaps doing it on the wire

where wire riders can feed off the blood in the water, might not be in the best interest for SASS overall

mileage always varies

 

 

how they gunna fix that

 

carry on

 

?? This Wire is also for discussion about SASS issues...anything can be discussed if it stays within the guidlines of the forum rules. It don't all have to be pretty. Part of the best interest for SASS overall is the ability to be open in discussion in a civil manner. That shows all who get on the Wire just what a great group of people SASS folks are. That is definately in the best interest of SASS IMHO.

 

GG ~

[Madd Mike #8595]

we can help put up the sails on the mayflower each and every day on her quest for the Americas (support staff)

then at night

chip itty bitty pin holes in the hull,under the water line

while we rest in our bunks

in our quest / dream / hope, for a better ship (if this one sinks) we may git a better one

 

they dont call me madd mike fer nothing

that was the voices in my head talkin LOL.LOL.LOL

[Anvil Al #59168]

yer right

 

pointing out the areas that need improvement is fine

 

perhaps doing it on the wire

where wire riders can feed off the blood in the water, might not be in the best interest for SASS overall

mileage always varies

 

I cant really see what all the complaining is about

its a week long shoot / party / shopping and intertainment venue

how is that NOT taking care of the shooters

I guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles

 

my only complaint was the dust, and that dust storm covered two states I drove through

both gettin there and leaving there

 

how they gunna fix that

 

when the post was ment for improvement of EOT

and along the way it turns into

my shoot is better then yours

geeeeese

that takes me back to playground talk 50 years ago

 

SASS makes improvements every year that I have attended

 

carry on

 

 

I don't really see it as my shoot is better than yours.

 

I think they just mean. If those other places can do it. Why can't they do it at EOT.

 

Which I am with Possum. It SHOULD be the best out there. And I want it to be.

Would really like it if it was. So I could look forward to it each year. I can live

with the no hook up thing and the camping. Think the targets are fine. I am sure they will fix those SG targets

by next year.

 

I know they can not do anything about the dust. But some of this stuff can be done

without that much expense. If the smaller clubs can do it. Then I see no reason the

WB can not do it and make EOT the best out there.

 

Would love to see it.

Going back next year with the wife shooting also.

Just hope I have a better time than last year.

If not. It will be our last time. If so. Will be back the next year again.

It is up to them.

 

And I guess my biggest problem was with seatting.

After paying all that. And the fuel to and from. Taking off work (not paid as I work for myself)

It cost alot to take off a full week to go to EOT. More time than it takes to any other shoot.

Would be nice to have a place to sit and watch those shows and things at night.

Not 3-4 deep outside a garage door hopping up and down trying to see.

That building NEEDS to expand. Or really should have been bigger to start with.

 

But I am giving it one more shot.

[el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162]

Muchas gracias to Brother King and Misty Moonshine! Brother King for opening the discussion and Misty for her fact-filled explanation (not rebuttal).

 

Misty, you and everyone who worked on EOT did a great job! This week everyone is probably exhausted from their efforts in putting on such a large event. I hope you will understand that the comments folks are making are intended as suggestions, even though many will be poorly worded and may sound whiney or complaining.

 

There is no such thing as the perfect match, no matter how hard we try. But we cannot improve without knowing what areas need attention. We are not ungrateful for the work that has been done (though that target on stage 9 that jumped out of the way of my bullet needs some work). My hope is that management will track all the threads about EOT over the next month and where pssible correct this year's deficiencies next year. The suggestions on the "If you were King for a Day" are particularly cogent.

 

Again, thank you both, and everyone who worked to make this year's EOT the great experience it was for Calico Cass and me!

 

Su amigo,

eGG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

we can help put up the sails on the mayflower each and every day on her quest for the Americas (support staff)

then at night

chip itty bitty pin holes in the hull,under the water line

while we rest in our bunks

in our quest / dream / hope, for a better ship (if this one sinks) we may git a better one

 

they dont call me madd mike fer nothing

that was the voices in my head talkin LOL.LOL.LOL

 

Your analogy is akin to SASS folks wanting to sabatoge the SASS 'boat'....I don't beleive that is the case.

 

GG ~

[Madd Mike #8595]

Your analogy is akin to SASS folks wanting to sabatoge the SASS 'boat'....I don't beleive that is the case.

 

GG ~

 

not what I ment

 

they are perhaps, in a small way

sabatoging EOT, which is

just a part of SASS

in their quest to make EOT perfect and or force it to be moved

 

I dont think that everyone understands what EOT means

<End of THE trail> party time, was for cowboys after herding thousands of cattle perhaps thousands of miles

THAT is the concept

now apply that to the year 2011............... the best that ya can

 

Yes it is a competition

Yes it is a party

Yes it is let out all your steam, at the end of a dusty ride

Yes its about soiled doves and real city entertainment after sleeping on the ground for months

IT might even be a bath and a shave, after too-long

 

SASS and its EOT------its about all of that stuff combined---- 0n a work in progress,, new range

its open to SASS shooters world wide, and you dont have to qualify to be invited, and some of it is open to non-shooters & public

 

once again

A nicely drafted comment letter to SASS might be a better way to get points and I-deals accross in a professionial manner

than

this public internet stuff, that feeds folks (NEGATIVE side) that never plan on attending, even iffen it were perfect

 

sin-cerly

Madd-Mike

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

not what I ment

 

they are perhaps, in a small way

sabatoging EOT, which is

just a part of SASS

in their quest to make EOT perfect and or force it to be moved

 

I dont think that everyone understands what EOT means

<End of THE trail> party time, was for cowboys after herding thousands of cattle perhaps thousands of miles

THAT is the concept

now apply that to the year 2011............... the best that ya can

 

Yes it is a competition

Yes it is a party

Yes it is let out all your steam, at the end of a dusty ride

Yes its about soiled doves and real city entertainment after sleeping on the ground for months

IT might even be a bath and a shave, after too-long

 

SASS and its EOT------its about all of that stuff combined---- 0n a work in progress,, new range

its open to SASS shooters world wide, and you dont have to qualify to be invited, and some of it is open to non-shooters & public

 

once again

A nicely drafted comment letter to SASS might be a better way to get points and I-deals accross in a professionial manner

than

this public internet stuff, that feeds folks (NEGATIVE side) that never plan on attending, even iffen it were perfect

 

sin-cerly

Madd-Mike

 

You're paranoid..

..

 

and once again. Folks should feel free to discuss the merits and demerits along with solutions here on the Wire if done in a civil manner.

 

Sure, a nicely drafted letter is a nice touch also.

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

If you run a business, put on a shoot, run any kind of event; you need to listen to your customers.

If you do not listen to your customers you may be considered demented.

 

The best way to listen is with your mouth closed and ears open.

I expect to see answers to technical questions as they can end a debate or discussion.

To Misty; But a "a kick in the teeth" is an unnecessarily antagonistic and unprofessional way of replying.

Those that run a business, etc need to realize that comments about a product are about the product and must not be taken personally.

You appear to have taken BKs comments personally.

 

From what I have read about you (Misty) you have done a great job.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

[quote name=Madd Mike #8595' timestamp='1309533520' post='2218346'

 

they are perhaps, in a small way

sabatoging EOT, which is

just a part of SASS

in their quest to make EOT perfect and or force it to be moved

 

SASS and its EOT------its about all of that stuff combined---- 0n a work in progress,, new range

its open to SASS shooters world wide, and you dont have to qualify to be invited, and some of it is open to non-shooters & public

 

once again

A nicely drafted comment letter to SASS might be a better way to get points and I-deals accross in a professionial manner

than

this public internet stuff, that feeds folks (NEGATIVE side) that never plan on attending, even iffen it were perfect

 

sin-cerly

Madd-Mike

 

+1 Perzackerly!

[Misty Moonshine]

Ok, ok, ok-

 

First and foremost, I appreciate every single word posted here- positive and negative!

 

Please dont take my response as anything but with the intention of presenting facts- did I take BK's words personally...as well as many other comments posted here? I did. When you put your heart and soul into something, it hurts to hear that folks didnt get that feel. It DID feel like a kick in the teeth! Why? Because I CARE. I care about every single shooter, every single member, every single vendor, every single sponsor, and every single person who comes through the gate at the Ranch or walks through the door at SASS Headquarters! Perhaps I do need to "toughen my hide" a bit, but I wouldnt dare if it meant sacrificing that type of care and passion for this organization, its members and its endeavors.

 

I do choose, however- to take a view point of positivity. I am digesting every word written here by everyone- and Im getting excited- what great feedback and things to improve on for next year! (I DO love a challenge!) I'll keep on keepin' on- and we just may suprise you guys with what the future EOT's have to offer EVERY participant! Rose colored glasses? Well, call them what you want- I wont sulk away in Eeyore mode full of ho-hums defeated. Id rather keep my "rose colored glasses" and move forward with the things YOU ALL have voiced as concerns and do my best to fix em! Was the match perfect? No. Are there many opportunities for improvement in the future? YES!I am grateful to every single person who has posted to this thread as well as the many others here on the wire- and please rest assured that I take every single comment and suggestion to heart.

 

END of TRAIL will continue to get better and better each and every year, and will improve by leaps and bounds with the suggestions for improvements provided by each one of you.

 

My promise to every one of you is to truly listen, to truly HEAR you..and then to continue to work my butt off to make it happen!

 

 

Thank you again for everything EACH and EVERY single one of you do!

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Thank you, Misty!

 

I am encouraged and looking forward to next EOT.

 

Possum

[Slick McClade]

Misty,

I can only speak for my family and I, but we are proud of everything You are doing to improve our "Game". Nothing said from me was directed at you personaly, it was to the whole Wild Bunch that makes all the dicisions. If everyone sent a letter to SASS stating ther problems then the rest of us would not know anyone else was complaining or NOT happy. I like the wire and I also do think sometimes it gets out of control, but at least everyone can see that other people are not happy as well. Yes, I do still think SASS AKA- Wild Bunch still needs to put forth a little more focus on the shooter's that are keeping this "Game" rolling. Its the little things like some shade at the shooting stations(very cheap to build), better 2-?? place awards(the pewter buckles are a little cheap looking). Its just the little stuff that goes along way, most people could not give a hoot about the very nice indoor vender buildings. We as shooters are at EOT to Shoot, better stage design with some perm. building's worth shooting at is what most want, it is the "World Championships". You are doing a great job and SASS is lucky to have you, if any buisness is to grow and get better one must listen to what products are needed to make is great. As for my Family and I we will be at EOT next year and are looking forward to seeing the improvements that many people have been asking for. I do understand that things are very very expensive, but lets get real SASS is working with close to a $2,000,000.00 yearly budget also.

 

Your Friend,

Slick

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Shade you say???????? VERY easy to accomplish, 12 x 14 ft EZ ups! I had to argue to be allowed to use mine at EOT 2006 when I was a berm marshall. EVERYONE that went thru stage 12 that year really appreciated it!!!

 

Not complaining mind you, but shade IS a need at EOT!

 

Cheyenne

[Aimless Annie, SASS #6890]

Misty,

Deaf Laws & I attended EOT in Norco for many, many years but this was our first trip to Founders Ranch. Just want to say thanks to you & the SASS staff as we were genuinely impressed with your graciousness, your efficiency & your willingness to help out. I know there are growing pains but EOT will be bigger & better each year as this facility is developed. Unlike Norco, we no longer have to park in the middle of a cow pasture, swatting flies & dreading the trip back to the motel because of the horrendous California traffic. Cheers to the Wild Bunch for going out on a financial limb in order to provide a true western setting for the World Championships of CAS. Time will tell, but with folks like you at the helm, EOT promises to be something special for years to come.

 

Aimless Annie

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I have been very reluctant to post on this thread because it is portraying our sport in a rather negative tone. However, I may as well add my comments.

 

I have been actively involved in the shooting sports since the mid 1960's. Those of you who complain about Founder's Ranch obviously haven't been around long. Many of the venues you think must be great are pretty ratty. Have you ever shot at the NRA Whittington Center?? Every shot at Camp Perry?? FR is better than either. I've shot in rain, mud, wind, snow, dust, freezing cold, oppressive heat, etc.etc. all over the US and around the world. When all things are considered FR is pretty nice. It is easy to criticize, but make sure your background is broad enough to give a fair comparison. One of the nicest custom CAS ranges in the US is in Price, UT. The County spent over 2 million dollars on that range. It has beautiful buildings, and facades, flush toilets, hundreds of the best targets available, and still shooters complain. I remember taking Chuckaroo's stage writing seminar at the Convention a few years ago and all the problems he showed that can occur with permanent facades. While they look great, and I like seeing them, they aren't always the best idea. Ever notice how incredibly loud it is shooting inside the buildings at Winter Range?? I would rather shoot in the open and save my hearing. While I agree that for the World Championship EOT is a bit lacking in some areas it is a credit to World matches in many other shooting sports. Ever lay in the sun for 3 hours in South Africa to make a Palma shot?? FR is pretty nice. Can it be better?? Sure, but don't shoot the Goose that laid the Golden Egg because you want 2 eggs a day instead of one. Remember that those who are considering joining our wonderful sport are looking at this forum and we need to consider the image we are presenting. l hope to see you all at EOT next year!! It's GREAT!! BE SAFE !! HAVE FUN !!