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Captain Bill Burt

You Make The Call

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Stage instructions call for loading 10 in the rifle in order to shoot 5 point Texas Star, with remaining rounds to be dumped into shooter's choice of two stationary targets. Shooter gets all five targets with six shots and proceeds to dump remaining 4 rounds into stationary target. While doing that the shooter jacks out 1 live round resulting in only 3 hits on stationary target. Is the jacked out round counted as a miss or not?

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Sure seems like a miss to me. It's a miss under any other circumstances, not seein' why it wouldn't be a miss here.

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it's a miss. But I'm on a super slow connection tonight so someone else will have to look up the appropriate rule. As I recall, by rule, an unfired round is a miss.

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Yup, it's a miss.

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Howdy Pard,

 

The shooter must either reload the jacked out round or take a miss. When you just miss a target, you cannot reload to make it up. However, with a jacked out round, it must either be replaced or it is a miss.

 

The following is from p.16 of the ROI Booklet, "Unfired ejected rifle rounds may be replaced." The word replaced is used to indicate the jacked out round is dead; but may be replaced with another round.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Not arguing, just trying to edjumicate myself. Does the fact that stage instructions say that 'misses' on the star aren't misses so long as all 5 points are hit affect the ruling? I ask because I've never seen a Texas Star before. Lot of fun too!

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The way I've seen stages like that written and scored, a miss is scored for each point of the star remaining and each miss on the dump target. As Doc Shapiro referenced I think there is someplace in the handbooks that addresses jacked out rifle rounds not replaced from body.

 

Edit

RO I Handbook, page 19

24. Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a

stage or “ejected” is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes

the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as

required by stage description, or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot.

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PENALTY OVERVIEW

5-SECOND PENALTIES

...

• Each missed target.

Each unfired round.

• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.

• Each target hit with “illegally acquired” ammunition.

RO1 p.24

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Here's why this HAS TO BE scored as a miss. It is faster to simply eject live rounds than to HIT a dump target unless it's as big as a refrigerator and two feet away. Counting it as a "no call" would encourage NOT firing the rounds not needed to clean the texas star.....

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Yup, clearly a miss.

 

Another related question.

Since misses on the star don't count, what if the shooter jacks out a round on about the third shot while shooting at the star?

It would be a miss.

But since the stage instructions said that misses on the star did not count, how should it be scored?

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:D

Yup, clearly a miss.

 

Another related question.

Since misses on the star don't count, what if the shooter jacks out a round on about the third shot while shooting at the star?

It would be a miss.

But since the stage instructions said that misses on the star did not count, how should it be scored?

Good question..

My thinking is the stage required 10 rounds to be fired...gotta reload on the Texas Star..

You can have 10 hits maximum or 10 misses maximum but not 10 jacked out rounds.. :D

Rance <_<

just my thinkin'

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If it is not fired then it is a miss per the rules - makes no difference where in the shooting sequence it gets jacked. If the instructions say load 10, then you need 10 shots.

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The shooter would have the option of replacing the jacked out round or taking the miss. How would there be a difference if the round was "jacked out" during the texas star engagement or the dump plate engagement?

 

1. Engages the star with six rounds, jacks out one and still cleans the star. Puts remaining three rounds on the dump plate and elects not to reload. = One miss.

 

2. Engages the star with six rounds, jacks out one and still cleans the star. Puts remaining three rounds on the dump plate, reloads and hits for #4. = Clean

 

3. Engages the star with six rounds, cleans the star. Puts remaining three rounds on the dump plate. = One miss.

 

4. Engages the star with five rounds, cleans the star. Puts remaining five rounds on the dump plate but has one miss. = One miss.

 

Or did I miss something?!?

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Quote

PENALTY OVERVIEW

5-SECOND PENALTIES

...

• Each missed target.

• Each unfired round.

• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.

• Each target hit with “illegally acquired” ammunition.

RO1 p.24

 

Yup, jacked out round in the middle of the star not replaced and fired is a miss.

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Dear Capt. Burt,

 

Don't feel that you are the only one who might wonder about this call. The reason we are all so smart :rolleyes:;) is that a similar situation was discussed on this Wire fairly recently.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Yup, clearly a miss.

 

Another related question.

Since misses on the star don't count, what if the shooter jacks out a round on about the third shot while shooting at the star?

It would be a miss.

But since the stage instructions said that misses on the star did not count, how should it be scored?

 

Thats what I wuz wonderin' too????

 

 

Dear Capt. Burt,

 

Don't feel that you are the only one who might wonder about this call. The reason we are all so smart :rolleyes:;) is that a similar situation was discussed on this Wire fairly recently.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

I missed that one........what's the call for what Marauder asked....I get the live round out on the dump......same thing?

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Yup, clearly a miss.

 

Another related question.

Since misses on the star don't count, what if the shooter jacks out a round on about the third shot while shooting at the star?

It would be a miss.

But since the stage instructions said that misses on the star did not count, how should it be scored?

 

It is misses with FIRED ROUNDS that don't count on the star.

Shooter could FIRE & miss the first 5 shots on the star; then clean the star with the second 5 shots = CLEAN

...but ALL TEN rounds must be fired.

(e.g. shooter could NOT jack out the first 5; then clean the star with the second 5 shots...any ejected rounds MUST be replaced or counted as misses)

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Cause when they say that misses on the star don't count as misses they mean misses and not misses.

 

Sounds confusing.

 

What ya need to understand is that there are 4 five second penalties. They are:

 

• Each missed target.

• Each unfired round.

• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.

• Each target hit with “illegally acquired” ammunition.

 

The unfired round is not a miss, it is a five second penalty.

 

Regards,

BJT

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Cause when they say that misses on the star don't count as misses they mean misses and not misses.

 

Sounds confusing.

 

What ya need to understand is that there are 4 five second penalties. They are:

 

• Each missed target.

• Each unfired round.

• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.

• Each target hit with "illegally acquired" ammunition.

 

The unfired round is not a miss, it is a five second penalty.

 

Regards,

BJT

 

Maybe we should change the way we call out time and penalties to........18.44 and 2 FSP......LOL....calling the unfired round a miss always screws people up when the stage instructions say "misses don't count"

 

Stan

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Thanks for all the feedback. I can see it's going to take some studying to get that RO-II pin.

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Thanks!

 

That is what I figured, but wanted validated.

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