Military question

[Alpo]

On another board they are telling "lieutenant stories". How young O1s and O2s did dumb stuff.

 

"First one happened on the way to check mail at Keesler AFB, Ms, in 1975. Saturday morning early as I was walking I saw a 2nd lieutenant across the street in civilian clothes walking toward me on the other side of the street. I was in uniform before reporting for work. He was with a young lady and had his right arm around her shoulders. I crossed the street and approached them with a friendly "Good morning, sir". He had to disengage from the young lass, push her aside to make room to return my salute (proper military courtesy doncha know) all while staring daggers at me."

 

The O1 was in civilian clothing when the narrator spoke to him. You return a salute in civilian clothing?

 

Maybe you are supposed to return it but she use a civilian salute instead of military?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Yes.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Yes. 

 

Service members are required to salute an officer in civilian attire *IF** they recognize that person as being an officer.  When saluted, officers are required to return the salute.  Applying the "reasonable person" standard, if I'm walking around in civilian attire and see a service member in uniform, I do not announce that I'm an officer.  It just is what it is.

 

This is the second reason I carry as much as possible in my left hand and do almost everything left handed.  The first reason is because I always leave my gun hand empty; I'm almost always carrying concealed, and as you know, I spent some time as a police officer where drawing my firearm was highly likely on any given shift (I averaged three times per shift for most of my career). 

[Alpo]

I have two yeses for returning the salute in civilian clothing.

 

But no answer to the "military salute or civilian salute?" question.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Army and Air Force salute whether in uniform or not. Their Officers return the salute whether in uniform or not. Marines and I think Navy, ONLY salute while in uniform. 

Marines in uniform salute an Officer and greet the Officer appropriately, as in "Good morning Sir." whether the Officer is in uniform or not. In uniform, the Officer will of course return the salute. Out of uniform, the Officer will acknowledge the salute, usually with a curt nod, and will return the greeting, as in "Good morning Marine."

Marines out of uniform will simply greet the Officer appropriately, as in "Good morning Sir." The Officer, whether in uniform or not will return the greeting, as in "Good morning Marine." 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Correct answers. Speaking of dumb lieutenants I learned as a young one not to reveal if at a party that I hade been an officer. Everybody had a a dumb lieutenant story, whether true or not. Then when I became a cop I found that everyone has a dumb rookie cop story that for some reason they feel obligated to tell you. It seems amazing that we ever won a battle or arrested any criminals.

And I always felt that returning a salute was an honor.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

GOOD to see ya back UB 

 

 I was worried , I might have to become a voice of reason 

 

  CB 

[Subdeacon Joe]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

Maybe you are supposed to return it but she use a civilian salute instead of military?

 

What is a "civilian salute?"

 

Boy scout?  Hand over heart? 

[Alpo]

47 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

What is a "civilian salute?"

 

Boy scout?  Hand over heart? 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

What is a "civilian salute?"

 

Boy scout?  Hand over heart? 

Not a salute, but in doing so, one indicates that he is not bearing arms, or that he appears to have genuine intentions, or is giving his word of honor, or is pledging allegiance.  

It used to be that the flag was saluted with the right arm extended and the palm face down. Congress passed legislation in 1942 instructing Americans to place their right hand over the heart instead, this gesture of respect too closely resembled the Nazi salute.

[Alpo]

I saw a video several years back. Reagan was pinning a medal on somebody. And after he pinned on the medal he stepped back, and the recipient, who was in uniform of course, saluted him. Ronnie looked shocked for about half a second, then put his hand over his heart then brought it back down, and the soldier brought his hand down from his forehead. The soldiers saluted his Commander in Chief, the commander-in-chief returned the salute, and the soldier brought his hand down. Ronnie was in civvies, and did a civilian salute.

 

But that was the only time I've seen a president do a civilian salute.

 

Maybe it's been decided somewhere that since they are officially the Commander in Chief and therefore the highest ranking officer in the military, and they wear a suit, being in the suit is equivalent to being in uniform and that's why they put their hand to their forehead. But it looks wrong.

[Stump Water]

I have never heard of a civilian salute.

 

When I was in JROTC in high school the question came up (pretty regular, believe it or not), "As a civilian, what do I do if a service member salutes me?"

 

Instructor's answer: "Come to attention - if you don't know how do the best you can - give a curt nod and acknowledge the salute with 'Soldier/Marine/Sailor/Airman'.  If in passing, then the nod and the acknowledgment."

 

The instructor was a USMC MSgt Ret. that spent his time in the Marines after Korea & Vietnam as an Instructor of Drill Instructors.  I'm still going with what he said. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Stump Water said:

"Come to attention - if you don't know how do the best you can - give a curt nod and acknowledge the salute with 'Soldier/Marine/Sailor/Airman'.  If in passing, then the nod and the acknowledgment."

 

That's my inclination.   Maybe make it,  "Thank you,  Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman."  Or, "Thank you, (rank/rating)."  The hand over the heart to return a military salute seems very awkward to me.  

 

Now I'm trying to think of a situation in which I would receive a salute from a member of the armed services in uniform. 

 

 

[Barry Sloe]

Things have changed over the years.  I speak for the Navy side:

- if someone in uniform recognizes an officer in civvies, you salute the officer.  The officer should acknowledge the salute. (old way, we weren't allowed to salute in civvies).

- if I am driving through the gate at the base and I receive a salute, I have the option of either returning the salute or just acknowledging the salute. 

 

BS

[Trailrider #896]

Conversely, when I was a missile maintenance officer at a SAC base, I was mostly wearing fatigues, with my rank insignia sewn on the collar points of the jacket. We were seldom on-base, so several times, when I walked toward the Base Exchange, EM's coming the other way didn't realize an officer could be in fatigues, so they didn't salute. Rather than being chicken and calling them on it, I let it go. I did take to wearing a plain black cap (instead of the one with the MIMS patch), with a metal gold or, later, silver bar on it, which got results. Most of the officers on-base were launch officers, wearing blue jumpsuits, which were recongnizable. 

 

Congress gave Army and Air Force veterans wearing civies the right to salute for the national anthem, which I do. Some others do it as well. The Navy and Marines have their own rules.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

7 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Congress gave Army and Air Force veterans wearing civies the right to salute for the national anthem, which I do. Some others do it as well. The Navy and Marines have their own rules.

When this was done, (2002 or 2003 if my rememberer is correct), the Commandant of The Marine Corps issued a statement that Marines still do not salute while out of uniform. 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:19 PM, Alpo said:

I saw a video several years back. Reagan was pinning a medal on somebody. And after he pinned on the medal he stepped back, and the recipient, who was in uniform of course, saluted him. Ronnie looked shocked for about half a second, then put his hand over his heart then brought it back down, and the soldier brought his hand down from his forehead. The soldiers saluted his Commander in Chief, the commander-in-chief returned the salute, and the soldier brought his hand down. Ronnie was in civvies, and did a civilian salute.

 

But that was the only time I've seen a president do a civilian salute.

 

Maybe it's been decided somewhere that since they are officially the Commander in Chief and therefore the highest ranking officer in the military, and they wear a suit, being in the suit is equivalent to being in uniform and that's why they put their hand to their forehead. But it looks wrong.

 

I once heard President Reagan talking about this very incident.  He was unsure of what he was supposed to do, because he had been an officer, and he remembered from his training that you were not supposed to salute while in civilian clothes.   But, he felt strange not returning the salute.  So he asked the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, or someone like that, that if the President of the United States, being the Commander in Chief, could have it officially stated that his "uniform" was civilian clothes.  The response was something like, "Mr. President, if you want to return someone's salute, no one is going to complain."

 

So from that day onward, President Reagan always returned the salutes he got, and he also commented that the first time he returned a salute, the person he returned it to smiled ever so slightly.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Here's what I should have done.   Let the President explain it in his own words.   My memory was close, but not perfect.